Porsche Taycan - first 'drivers' EV?
Discussion
REALIST123 said:
We shall see!
I can though think of a few reasons why they might slash this tax. One being that ‘they’ can then crow about what they’re doing to support their green commitment without actually giving too much up.
The thing is that we all agree that once there’s been a big swing to EV HMRC will be grabbing this tax back, so how long it will last is anybody’s guess!
It’s an interesting discussion. Another factor is that, in the UK, a lot of Company cars are low list price, probably below £20k.
The most popular is the Fiesta. In the top 5 are the Mini, Focus, Astra and Aygo.
How would the cost of say, an i3 or even a Leaf without BIK compare to a Fiesta with? Enough of an advantage to cause a rush to change?
Whatever happens, I doubt that Porsche will be looking to the UK CC market to secure their future but it will be interesting to find out!
Sure, Porsche are global and a UK tax break will not be a factor for them - although I'm sure the UK sales force will press the advantage to shoppers..I can though think of a few reasons why they might slash this tax. One being that ‘they’ can then crow about what they’re doing to support their green commitment without actually giving too much up.
The thing is that we all agree that once there’s been a big swing to EV HMRC will be grabbing this tax back, so how long it will last is anybody’s guess!
It’s an interesting discussion. Another factor is that, in the UK, a lot of Company cars are low list price, probably below £20k.
The most popular is the Fiesta. In the top 5 are the Mini, Focus, Astra and Aygo.
How would the cost of say, an i3 or even a Leaf without BIK compare to a Fiesta with? Enough of an advantage to cause a rush to change?
Whatever happens, I doubt that Porsche will be looking to the UK CC market to secure their future but it will be interesting to find out!
I think the rush change will be that people already privately paying for an average car, that trade through their own ltd. will realise that they can have a modern EV, with twice the price tag and the same monthly payments.
How long will it last?? Well, HMRC have set the rates for the next 3 years only, so I assume 3 years then it will sharply increase! Funnily enough, 3 years is a fairly typical lease/pcp timespan so I guess they know that, and they know that we know that... This is essentially a 'grab it while you can' deal. Which is fine, those of us that run our own little businesses are used to grabbing what we can and are well used to forever changing circumstances.
Anyway, as of April next year, if you run your own ltd, the fact is that if you get an EV you can get a car with roughly twice the monthly cost of your current car, and it won't cost you any more. That's going to have an effect on a lot of people that haven't even considered a company car for the last decade.
What is more - I'm working at the Frankfurt auto show and will be there on press day, it looks like by April next year there are going to be many more EV options for people to choose from, whatever type of car or budget, those that can benefit from zero BIK should be able to aim for a suitable EV.
TheDeuce said:
How long will it last?? Well, HMRC have set the rates for the next 3 years only, so I assume 3 years then it will sharply increase!
Heard it will go up 1% a year but nothing is set, typical business car is only held 2-3 years anyhow, and this will then flood the used fleet with EVs, during that time new EV prices will have dropped a lot. RobDickinson said:
Theres plenty of market for both is what I am saying, plenty of larger exec cruisers that never get driven on track etc.
TBH I doubt many taycan ever do either, its like the SUV craze, large and rugged for no reason other than the supermarket car park.
It's easier to experience the abilities of a sports car on any drive than it is to experience the abilities of a 4x4 though. I'm not claiming that 50% of Porsche drivers aren't just posing... But even the worst posers will fairly frequently find themselves on a wide open b-road and give it a nudge, rewarded by feeling the power and tightness of the car.TBH I doubt many taycan ever do either, its like the SUV craze, large and rugged for no reason other than the supermarket car park.
When a car sinks in to the road and gives you the confidence to go faster, you come home with a little smile on your face
RobDickinson said:
TheDeuce said:
How long will it last?? Well, HMRC have set the rates for the next 3 years only, so I assume 3 years then it will sharply increase!
Heard it will go up 1% a year but nothing is set, typical business car is only held 2-3 years anyhow, and this will then flood the used fleet with EVs, during that time new EV prices will have dropped a lot. So this is it - you want to play, arrange an EV for 2020 tax year. Be prepared to no longer want to or be able to afford it come 2023!
I’ve placed a deposit ....if you want a Turbo S deliveries are most likely Jan...Turbo slightly later. I don’t want either I am waiting for the lower spec models which will be announced in due course and probably available second half of next year...maybe earlier No BIK for me, I am an existing Porsche owner, we do about 30k miles a year across our cars with a daily range of 200 miles being plenty for us.
I think within a month and probably less you will be looking at an 18 moth wait for a car at least.
Today was the first day you could place a deposit in the UK, we have different rules from other markets because of issues around GT car allocations in the past...hence why all the press about 20,000 deposits but none before today in the UK. Each Porsche dealer in the UK will get something like 60 cars annually so roughly 2500 cars which is about 10% of production. I think the residuals will be excellent for the first two or three years so even for me with no BIK these will be cheap cars to run when you look at cost to own for the quality of car it is.
I think within a month and probably less you will be looking at an 18 moth wait for a car at least.
Today was the first day you could place a deposit in the UK, we have different rules from other markets because of issues around GT car allocations in the past...hence why all the press about 20,000 deposits but none before today in the UK. Each Porsche dealer in the UK will get something like 60 cars annually so roughly 2500 cars which is about 10% of production. I think the residuals will be excellent for the first two or three years so even for me with no BIK these will be cheap cars to run when you look at cost to own for the quality of car it is.
RobDickinson said:
If you order one of these today when is it likely to turn up? sometime 2021 or later I think ?
Depends... What we don't know yet is how many, if any are allocated to the lease car providers - I have my eye firmly on that as I would rather lease through the company than purchase through the company.Also, it is entirely possible that once the rush of initial orders is over, Porsche will announce that 'due to demand' they can deliver massively higher numbers of cars. It is after-all, best to make something rare initially if you want to secure the maximum number of orders early on.
I think sadly you're probably right, if you don't have a pre-order, then chances are it's at least a years wait for delivery. But the honest answer is, that we just don't know yet. I suspect the lease buyers will have some allocation that makes up a chunk of the pre-ordered cars, but as that chunk would be the only available cars expected to ship anytime soon, the rates probably won't be great...
If I can get one for £1000 p/m + vat or less by the new tax year, it's a done deal. If not I'll be very sad tbh, but there is the Model S which really is a good car, and I think a few new options will appear during the Frankfurt auto show.
Cheib said:
I’ve placed a deposit ....if you want a Turbo S deliveries are most likely Jan...Turbo slightly later. I don’t want either I am waiting for the lower spec models which will be announced in due course and probably available second half of next year...maybe earlier No BIK for me, I am an existing Porsche owner, we do about 30k miles a year across our cars with a daily range of 200 miles being plenty for us.
I think within a month and probably less you will be looking at an 18 moth wait for a car at least.
Today was the first day you could place a deposit in the UK, we have different rules from other markets because of issues around GT car allocations in the past...hence why all the press about 20,000 deposits but none before today in the UK. Each Porsche dealer in the UK will get something like 60 cars annually so roughly 2500 cars which is about 10% of production. I think the residuals will be excellent for the first two or three years so even for me with no BIK these will be cheap cars to run when you look at cost to own for the quality of car it is.
Good point about the residual values - I expect this will be exactly the sort of car you can sell for +£10k the following day if you take an early delivery!I think within a month and probably less you will be looking at an 18 moth wait for a car at least.
Today was the first day you could place a deposit in the UK, we have different rules from other markets because of issues around GT car allocations in the past...hence why all the press about 20,000 deposits but none before today in the UK. Each Porsche dealer in the UK will get something like 60 cars annually so roughly 2500 cars which is about 10% of production. I think the residuals will be excellent for the first two or three years so even for me with no BIK these will be cheap cars to run when you look at cost to own for the quality of car it is.
Also good residuals tend to do amazing things for competitive lease pricing - which could yet prove one of the fastest ways to get a UK car. It did for the i-pace.
RobDickinson said:
There was talk about doubling output to 40k not sure if they have or not, the audi etron gt will be the same platform not sure if built on the same line.
They have to target growth of EV sales and move ICE lines to EV fairly smartly. But for as long as possible all manufacturers of EV's will play the 'we're struggling - get your order in today' card. Which is fair enough!NB: cars that share platforms do so for a number of sensible reasons, one of which is that you can have one line producing the base platform and then split it's output in to separate lines for each marque/version. Whatever the quoted production rate for the Taycan specifically, no way of knowing how many of the same EV platforms they're geared up to produce across the entire VAG.
TheDeuce said:
RobDickinson said:
If you order one of these today when is it likely to turn up? sometime 2021 or later I think ?
Depends... What we don't know yet is how many, if any are allocated to the lease car providers - I have my eye firmly on that as I would rather lease through the company than purchase through the company.Also, it is entirely possible that once the rush of initial orders is over, Porsche will announce that 'due to demand' they can deliver massively higher numbers of cars. It is after-all, best to make something rare initially if you want to secure the maximum number of orders early on.
I think sadly you're probably right, if you don't have a pre-order, then chances are it's at least a years wait for delivery. But the honest answer is, that we just don't know yet. I suspect the lease buyers will have some allocation that makes up a chunk of the pre-ordered cars, but as that chunk would be the only available cars expected to ship anytime soon, the rates probably won't be great...
If I can get one for £1000 p/m + vat or less by the new tax year, it's a done deal. If not I'll be very sad tbh, but there is the Model S which really is a good car, and I think a few new options will appear during the Frankfurt auto show.
The configurator is online https://www.porsche.com/uk/modelstart/all/?modelra...
Witchfinder said:
Right, but until recently the Model S P100DL was North of 100k, and the cheapest Model S you can order today is 77k.
If I had that kind of money, I wouldn't be sinking £92,000 into a Performance Model S, I'd be ordering the Taycan and paying the extra. I expect the residuals will be phenomenal, and the quality second to none.
I've said this many times, to spend 100k on a Model S you have to be swimming in money. £50k was the starting price in the UK, and at most its a £70k car.If I had that kind of money, I wouldn't be sinking £92,000 into a Performance Model S, I'd be ordering the Taycan and paying the extra. I expect the residuals will be phenomenal, and the quality second to none.
The reason Tesla aren't shifting the S/Xs at the moment is partly down to price, they are too expensive by at least 15%.
If I had £120k to spend on a car I wouldn't touch a S or X, and the Taycan would be 100% on top of my shopping list
.Cheib said:
I’ve placed a deposit ....if you want a Turbo S deliveries are most likely Jan...Turbo slightly later. I don’t want either I am waiting for the lower spec models which will be announced in due course and probably available second half of next year.
How have you put a deposit down for the cheaper one could I ask?Never been to Porsche dealer, had a play on the configurator just assumed if you wanted one you just press the 'Buy' button.
£80-90k RWD version would still be crazy cash, but also quite tempting......*only* £30k more than a Model 3, and compared to the 3 this is a much more appealing car, also cannot see the EV XJ coming in for less than £80k
.Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 5th September 05:24
gangzoom said:
How have you put a deposit down for the cheaper one could I ask?
Never been to Porsche dealer, had a play on the configurator just assumed if you wanted one you just press the 'Buy' button.
£80-90k RWD version would still be crazy cash, but also quite tempting......*only* £30k more than a Model 3, and compared to the 3 this is a much more appealing car, also cannot see the EV XJ coming in for less than £80k.
Having had a look at the configurator if the base price of the RWD model is £85k once you've added a number of options to bring the spec closer in parity (panoramic roof, active cruise, parking assist etc.) it'll be almost twice the price of the Model 3 P.Never been to Porsche dealer, had a play on the configurator just assumed if you wanted one you just press the 'Buy' button.
£80-90k RWD version would still be crazy cash, but also quite tempting......*only* £30k more than a Model 3, and compared to the 3 this is a much more appealing car, also cannot see the EV XJ coming in for less than £80k
.Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 5th September 05:24
Totally agree the Taycan is far more appealing and the quality of engineering will be second to none but I think saying 'only' £30k more is rather disingenuous.
SWoll said:
Having had a look at the configurator if the base price of the RWD model is £85k once you've added a number of options to bring the spec closer in parity (panoramic roof, active cruise, parking assist etc.) it'll be almost twice the price of the Model 3 P.
Totally agree the Taycan is far more appealing and the quality of engineering will be second to none but I think saying 'only' £30k more is rather disingenuous.
Not that different to the pricing difference between an m3 and a 911 or panamera Totally agree the Taycan is far more appealing and the quality of engineering will be second to none but I think saying 'only' £30k more is rather disingenuous.
Joining this thread slightly late.
I’m a i3 driver and was planning to migrate to a base spec Taycan once available.
I’ve owned a string of ICE Porsche’s so I’d consider myself a die hard fan.
That being said - I drove a Model 3 on Monday and was blown away really. Big step on from my i3. I’m now wondering whether the Taycan will be worth the wait and price....
I’m a i3 driver and was planning to migrate to a base spec Taycan once available.
I’ve owned a string of ICE Porsche’s so I’d consider myself a die hard fan.
That being said - I drove a Model 3 on Monday and was blown away really. Big step on from my i3. I’m now wondering whether the Taycan will be worth the wait and price....
nickpan said:
Joining this thread slightly late.
I’m a i3 driver and was planning to migrate to a base spec Taycan once available.
I’ve owned a string of ICE Porsche’s so I’d consider myself a die hard fan.
That being said - I drove a Model 3 on Monday and was blown away really. Big step on from my i3. I’m now wondering whether the Taycan will be worth the wait and price....
Very different cars. I expect the M3P will be quicker, more practical and half the price of the base Taycan once a few options are added. The Porsche will be better to drive and a higher quality item though.I’m a i3 driver and was planning to migrate to a base spec Taycan once available.
I’ve owned a string of ICE Porsche’s so I’d consider myself a die hard fan.
That being said - I drove a Model 3 on Monday and was blown away really. Big step on from my i3. I’m now wondering whether the Taycan will be worth the wait and price....
Depends on priorities and budget I suppose but wouldn't expect to see much change from £100k and a long wait due to them only taking orders on the Turbo and Turbo S for a while.
Doesn't seem to be the general consensus from the motoring press, and with Tesla not advertising they've got no reason to be bias I'm aware of?
Appreciate the Taycan will be considerably better, but then it's nearly 3 times the price when comparing base model against base model so you would hope so.
Appreciate the Taycan will be considerably better, but then it's nearly 3 times the price when comparing base model against base model so you would hope so.
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