Porsche Taycan - first 'drivers' EV?

[Dave Hedgehog]

PrancingHorses said:

Comparing a model 3 to a Taycan would be like comparing a Fiesta to an S Class - the Model 3 has the worst build quality of any car I have ever test driven - absolutely appalling IMHO.

You have not been in a lot of cars then as it’s no worse than my a class

[ajprice]

SWoll said:

Doesn't seem to be the general consensus from the motoring press, and with Tesla not advertising they've got no reason to be bias I'm aware of?

Appreciate the Taycan will be considerably better, but then it's nearly 3 times the price when comparing base model against base model so you would hope so.

[Cheib]

gangzoom said:

Cheib said:

I’ve placed a deposit ....if you want a Turbo S deliveries are most likely Jan...Turbo slightly later. I don’t want either I am waiting for the lower spec models which will be announced in due course and probably available second half of next year.

How have you put a deposit down for the cheaper one could I ask?

Never been to Porsche dealer, had a play on the configurator just assumed if you wanted one you just press the 'Buy' button.

£80-90k RWD version would still be crazy cash, but also quite tempting......*only* £30k more than a Model 3, and compared to the 3 this is a much more appealing car, also cannot see the EV XJ coming in for less than £80k.

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 5th September 05:24

I’m an exiting customer/have a good relationship....told them I was interested 18 months ago. Hopefully I’ll get an early car when it’s formally announced and they get my deposit sitting in their bank account for six months. I suppose its similar to RoW where they’be been taking deposits for months.

[nickpan]

PrancingHorses said:

Comparing a model 3 to a Taycan would be like comparing a Fiesta to an S Class - the Model 3 has the worst build quality of any car I have ever test driven - absolutely appalling IMHO.

I’m surprised to hear this. The model I test drove felt well put together - at least as well put together as my i3.

Just reviewing the Taycan options in the config - does anybody know what the engine noise option does?

[SWoll]

nickpan said:

PrancingHorses said:

Comparing a model 3 to a Taycan would be like comparing a Fiesta to an S Class - the Model 3 has the worst build quality of any car I have ever test driven - absolutely appalling IMHO.

I’m surprised to hear this. The model I test drove felt well put together - at least as well put together as my i3.

Just reviewing the Taycan options in the config - does anybody know what the engine noise option does?

Spaceship noise. Go on, how much?

ETA - Just checked. £354.

It's a £120k car and they couldn't include it?

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 5th September 18:24

[RobDickinson]

SWoll said:

Spaceship noise. Go on, how much?

ETA - Just checked. £354.

It's a £120k car and they couldn't include it?

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 5th September 18:24

They don't include a backup camera..

[gangzoom]

ajprice said:

Am not sure I've seen any negative press on the Taycan from anyone aside from the price?

Almost feels like some people have some serious insecurities about picking the Taycan over a Tesla, much like even this whole thread .

Personally I would love one if I could afford one.

[TheDeuce]

SWoll said:

Doesn't seem to be the general consensus from the motoring press, and with Tesla not advertising they've got no reason to be bias I'm aware of?

Appreciate the Taycan will be considerably better, but then it's nearly 3 times the price when comparing base model against base model so you would hope so.

It's not just a better build quality, better engineering, more prestigious marque and so on... It's a more expensive car to produce. Performance cars are always more expensive to produce than more general purpose cars of a similar quality level due to the expensive and performance components used, components that aren't produced on such a massive scale. Lots of good reasons why performance is expensive.

The fact that the taycan is also a far higher spec interior quality and luxury level above the model 3, any comparison becomes pointless really.

I think best to compare the value of the taycan to it's ICE Porsche equivalents. If you do that, and try and buy a comparable Porsche with the same performance potential, then the taycan is a bit of a bargain.

If the cheaper ones do cost £70k or less, then the value proposition is pretty insane for such a car. The cheaper ones won't be as quick, but still bloody quick in real terms.

[TheDeuce]

gangzoom said:

Am not sure I've seen any negative press on the Taycan from anyone aside from the price?

Almost feels like some people have some serious insecurities about picking the Taycan over a Tesla, much like even this whole thread .

Personally I would love one if I could afford one.

In a way, complaining about the price is almost a positive. It means people want one even if it's beyond their budget!

I do think the cheaper one(s) will in the end probably be the best buy - but these days the hot cars always get released first it seems. Then the cheaper versions appear... Then after a few years a really hot 'final' version appears.

All pretty standard. My only question is how the hell they managed to bolt a turbo to an electric motor

[PrancingHorses]

Dave Hedgehog said:

You have not been in a lot of cars then as it’s no worse than my a class

I sat in one in Westfield which was literally falling apart in the showroom - see the Model 3 thread for pics I posted.

I then took one out on a test drive and it felt like it would fall apart within 6 months.

It won't be long before Mr Musk is selling only batteries - the quality of Tesla's leave a lot to be desired and if you don't believe me have some conversation with real owners - not keyboard warriors. I have friends who own these £100k cars and have no ends of issues with them.

I think the Polestar will be a much better electric car if you want a cheaper but more premium electric car offering

https://www.polestar.com/cars/polestar-2

[RobDickinson]

PrancingHorses said:

I then took one out on a test drive and it felt like it would fall apart within 6 months.

Surprisingly this isnt actually happening but nice try.

[TheDeuce]

PrancingHorses said:

I sat in one in Westfield which was literally falling apart in the showroom - see the Model 3 thread for pics I posted.

I then took one out on a test drive and it felt like it would fall apart within 6 months.

It won't be long before Mr Musk is selling only batteries - the quality of Tesla's leave a lot to be desired and if you don't believe me have some conversation with real owners - not keyboard warriors. I have friends who own these £100k cars and have no ends of issues with them.

I think the Polestar will be a much better electric car if you want a cheaper but more premium electric car offering

https://www.polestar.com/cars/polestar-2

Couldn't agree more. I sat in the one in Westfield whilst working there and I couldn't believe some of the quality issues and crappy materials. To double check I sat in another at MK centre and it was the same. Out of interest I googled the issue and watched a couple of YouTube videos from Tesla fans/owners bemoaning the issues. One had a panel gap difference of 8mm I think, and the other had some totally unacceptable areas of missing paint. The paint was actually missing almost, but then lacquered over all the same.

The biggest thing for me though was that interior didn't feel 'designed'. It felt modern, of course it did - it IS modern. There was obviously a statement being made about what modern cars should look like inside. It just wasn't made very well and I'm not convinced it's really the feel very many people want in their cars. Spartan is a good word... Both the Taycan and the i-Pace have gone down a rather different route, quite similar to one another, and both look far more appealing to me. And frankly, comparing the i-Pace inside/outside to a Model 3 is a hands down win to the Jag. I've spent many hours with the i-Pace and like most new Jag/LR cars, it's a pretty awesome blend of quality and flair in there. You certainly wouldn't question or resent the price tag when you climb in each day. Taycan looks to have achieved the same. I'll be sat in one in a few days time to make sure

[Cheib]

gangzoom said:

ajprice said:

Am not sure I've seen any negative press on the Taycan from anyone aside from the price?

Almost feels like some people have some serious insecurities about picking the Taycan over a Tesla, much like even this whole thread .

Personally I would love one if I could afford one.

It’s expensive to buy without a doubt but I really believe it’ll be cheaper to own becaus of residuals. Porsche are a low volume manufacturer and I am pretty confident demand will outstrip supply for quite a while. Spec one sensibly and do 10k miles a year and for the first couple of years it’ll cost you maybe 10% in depreciation per annum. People will be paying list price for a used one for a good while when you have to wait over a year for a new one.

[TheDeuce]

Cheib said:

It’s expensive to buy without a doubt but I really believe it’ll be cheaper to own becaus of residuals. Porsche are a low volume manufacturer and I am pretty confident demand will outstrip supply for quite a while. Spec one sensibly and do 10k miles a year and for the first couple of years it’ll cost you maybe 10% in depreciation per annum. People will be paying list price for a used one for a good while when you have to wait over a year for a new one.

In 40 years time will a Porsche museum have an example of the first EV Porsche? Yes.

It is indeed a bit of a milestone. And also a bit of bargain compared to any other Porsche. Anyone who takes early delivery could probably sell it the next day well above RRP if they sought connections with people that really want one..

[UnderSteerD]

The comparisons between the Taycan and the Model 3, or even the Model S are ridiculous.

Is the Skoda Octavia Vrs crap? No, they're great. In context. They're not as quick, as well built or as flash as a BMW M4 - but that doesn't change anything. Any comparison is ridiculous because they're very different cars at very different price points - just like the Taycan and the Teslas.

Neither takes anything away from the other

Edited by UnderSteerD on Thursday 5th September 21:51

[RobDickinson]

UnderSteerD said:

Neither takes anything away from the other

You are right, they dont.

The taycan is a different proposition to either.

But we've had ~5 years of media spin around the Porsche Tesla killer ( remember initially 300 mile range $85k car that charges at 350kw) and now we get a $185k car that goes ~200 miles and will likely charge at 50kw unless you are lucky or pay more.

I doubt the taycan buyers care, it will be a success and it doesnt have to match tesla on every metric (or even any), its going to be a better car to thrash than a model S and be very well put together.

[TheDeuce]

RobDickinson said:

You are right, they dont.

The taycan is a different proposition to either.

But we've had ~5 years of media spin around the Porsche Tesla killer ( remember initially 300 mile range $85k car that charges at 350kw) and now we get a $185k car that goes ~200 miles and will likely charge at 50kw unless you are lucky or pay more.

I doubt the taycan buyers care, it will be a success and it doesnt have to match tesla on every metric (or even any), its going to be a better car to thrash than a model S and be very well put together.

You're right - but then all auto makers play the hype-train game the same way pretty much. To be fair, Tesla do deliver on their unlikely sounding future promises but on the other hand, the hyped features they show off are relatively simple to achieve but don't add much to the day to day function or driving pleasure of the car. There are stories of the current performance Model S hitting close to 2.2 seconds to 60, which is hugely impressive to imagine, let alone feel. But you have to 'prepare the car' first and then again to repeat the experience. The Taycan driver, without pushing at all will feel the quality of drive every day without making any effort at all. All Porsche's deliver that feeling - even the minger that is the Panamera manages to feel front end sharp and responsive.

Porsche say they will produce 20k units per year. In reality, they likely have plans to at least double that very quickly. But as a sports car manufacturer they don't need or want to sell more units than Tesla with the model 3. It's not going to be difficult in the current EV hype market to find 40, 60, 80k people a year that like the sound of an EV (genuine thoroughbred) performance car for circa £100-120k.

Whatever number they can produce, they can sell. That means that whatever price they put on the car is correct. It's business - everything is worth no less than what you can get for it.

Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 5th September 22:19

[SWoll]

Fanboy warfare.

UnderSteerD said:

The comparisons between the Taycan and the Model 3, or even the Model S are ridiculous.

Is the Skoda Octavia Vrs crap? No, they're great. In context. They're not as quick, as well built or as flash as a BMW M4 - but that doesn't change anything. Any comparison is ridiculous because they're very different cars at very different price points - just like the Taycan and the Teslas.

Neither takes anything away from the other

Edited by UnderSteerD on Thursday 5th September 21:51

Exactly this. Very happy to be getting a Model 3 Performance shortly but if my budget was 2 or 3 times what it is I'd be straight on the Taycan waiting list.

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 5th September 22:20

[RobDickinson]

There is room for them both, and they really dont directly compete. Plenty of people for whatever reason wont buy one brand and love another.

Its why I dont understand jaguar targeting the model X with the iPace launch and Audi trying to sell to tesla customers, they have so many other people to sell too.

[TheDeuce]

SWoll said:

Fanboy warfare.

I don't see that tbh. This car is indeed a bit of a reality check to those that thought Tesla would own the EV market... But honestly most views I have heard from those wanting to buy the Taycan or already owning the Model S are fairly respectful of one anothers existence.

It's not as if that many people would really expect the EV future to not have the same variety of options in the end as the present ICE range has provided for decades. think Porsche have done a particularly good job with this car, the Nurburgring time shows it's the real deal. But give it 2-3 year and whatever type of car you want will be available from various manufacturers as an EV. At that point the comparison between a Porsche sports car and a Tesla family saloon will seem pretty ridiculous. It's only being made now because there are so few exciting EV's on the market today. That will change very soon, we will be discussing new options in less than a fortnight.