Porsche Taycan - first 'drivers' EV?
Discussion
<< In 40 years time will a Porsche museum have an example of the first EV Porsche? Yes. >>
Ironically one of the first cars with Porsche involvement was a hulking great thing with electric motors in the wheel hubs, way back at the end of the 19th century: the Lohner-Porsche. There's a replica in the Porsche museum. A hybrid version was also developed with petrol-driven generators providing power for the motors. So we've come full circle!
Ironically one of the first cars with Porsche involvement was a hulking great thing with electric motors in the wheel hubs, way back at the end of the 19th century: the Lohner-Porsche. There's a replica in the Porsche museum. A hybrid version was also developed with petrol-driven generators providing power for the motors. So we've come full circle!
Mikehig said:
<< In 40 years time will a Porsche museum have an example of the first EV Porsche? Yes. >>
Ironically one of the first cars with Porsche involvement was a hulking great thing with electric motors in the wheel hubs, way back at the end of the 19th century: the Lohner-Porsche. There's a replica in the Porsche museum. A hybrid version was also developed with petrol-driven generators providing power for the motors. So we've come full circle!
I know the car! There was another electric 'carriage' from around that time that briefly seemed like to common sense route, before it's hopeless range and power was eclipsed by 'proper' cars.Ironically one of the first cars with Porsche involvement was a hulking great thing with electric motors in the wheel hubs, way back at the end of the 19th century: the Lohner-Porsche. There's a replica in the Porsche museum. A hybrid version was also developed with petrol-driven generators providing power for the motors. So we've come full circle!
I think obviously the Model S will one day be seen as a pivotal moment in the history or the car, and will be quite valuable. Also each first timer in each segment will eventually be quite cherished. Not least the Taycan as it's the first performance focused EV that enough people will own to have fond memories of.
Right now the masses still see EV as something of a novelty. But when it comes time to buy a new car, I suspect many will start to consider just how short lived the values of a new ICE car might be in a fast changing world. I firmly suspect that a lot of people whom 2 years ago wouldn't consider themselves a likely EV owner might pause and consider changing their stance. It's hard to identify a period of rapid change when it's happening, it's usually identified later on. But I'm pretty sure a significant swing will occur in the next few years - and that any cars leading that change will one day be seen as fairly important.
I think I've been fairly honest about wanting an EV for a few years as a company car because of the BIK tax break. But for sure many Taycan's will be bought and used very lightly, mostly as a long term investment. God knows how many Porsche's have been bought over the years to not be driven.. I suspect a number bettered only by Ferrari.
Something has definitely changed just last week I actually suggested an EV for a friends wife. She does a long school run like my wife does in the Tesla. Around 80 miles a day for them would be no brainer.
I haven’t got on with my Tesla but for lots of people EVs really do offer a lot. A couple of years ago I simply wouldn’t have considered one for myself or suggested one to anyone else.
As for the Taycan, I think it looks great and will offer something different to Tesla. It will probably come down to what you want. Personally I’m excited to see how it drives as EVs clearly have a lot to offer that hasn’t been realised just yet. You can’t blame Tesla for not focusing on this aspect when so much work had to be put into just getting an EV to be viable for the mainstream which can’t be underestimated.
I hope the EV options will come thick and fast from now.
I haven’t got on with my Tesla but for lots of people EVs really do offer a lot. A couple of years ago I simply wouldn’t have considered one for myself or suggested one to anyone else.
As for the Taycan, I think it looks great and will offer something different to Tesla. It will probably come down to what you want. Personally I’m excited to see how it drives as EVs clearly have a lot to offer that hasn’t been realised just yet. You can’t blame Tesla for not focusing on this aspect when so much work had to be put into just getting an EV to be viable for the mainstream which can’t be underestimated.
I hope the EV options will come thick and fast from now.
TheDeuce said:
It already has left the Tesla behind - they've focussed on the entire performance package which is why they managed this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg&fe... Which is frankly staggering and well worth a watch if you have 7 minutes and 42 seconds to spare 
No Tesla is going to get close to that anytime soon! Within 8 miles of hard driving the Tesla has to limit it's power to avoid overheating, and beyond 10 miles hard driving the limit is extreme - hence, I think around 10 minutes is about as good as the Tesla's have managed at the Nurburgring. And to be honest, even before the performance limiter kicks in, a Model S isn't getting around the Nurburgring anything like as fast as the Taycan. The Model S just isn't built for performance from the ground up.
In totally unrelated news, a Tesla Model S will be at Nurburgring next week... https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/11697518390356...No Tesla is going to get close to that anytime soon! Within 8 miles of hard driving the Tesla has to limit it's power to avoid overheating, and beyond 10 miles hard driving the limit is extreme - hence, I think around 10 minutes is about as good as the Tesla's have managed at the Nurburgring. And to be honest, even before the performance limiter kicks in, a Model S isn't getting around the Nurburgring anything like as fast as the Taycan. The Model S just isn't built for performance from the ground up.
There is fanboy warfare, or rather Tesla fans fighting the legacy industrial world, disciples following the Messiah.
Note that I don't mean that negatively by the way, the car industry benefits from this new way of doing things. The problem is the fervour that Tesla fans generate has created a backlash in the USA mainly by investors and non car enthusiasts. So Tesla fans tend to now get defensive about anything , including a new car.
Reading the TESLA based websites, twitter feeds etc they go from claiming that the Taycan is not a threat but actually an ally, another EV to help the world move to a better sustainable future, which it probably is, but then they can't help themselves and revert to saying the Taycan is far worse than the Model S or 3 . They have a table to prove it
https://twitter.com/TeslaPodcast/status/1169321285...
As Chris Harris has said, nobody has driven the Taycan yet but people are just cherry picking stats to show something. Of course driving pleasure is low down the list of a lot of TESLA drivers requirements, A to B people, where automonous driving potential is more exciting, while you tweet. That's not really a PH thing of course, Tesla and Porsche owners on here I am not tarring with that brush of course, but a lot of people that is the main attraction, not the driving, the tech etc.
Getting back to the topic and comments above, it is rather silly to compare the Taycan to the model S as people have said. I always thought of the Model S as an insanely quick competitor to a Merc E class or BMW 5 series, not any Porsche. I guess the Taycan just has been linked because it is the first 4 door similar challenger. I don't think Tesla ever designed the S type to be a sportscar?
Having said all that, Elon Musk has said that the S type will be going to the Nurburgring next week
https://electrek.co/2019/09/05/tesla-model-s-nurbu...
Presumably they will hire the entire circuit at short notice.
The problem I have with this is that it will still not tell us how the Taycan drives compared to the model S, just another number to be used, or ignored, by the fans once again, depending on the result.
Hopefully it won't happen....
PS I'd take an AMG E63 estate over either of em !
I'm Mr 20th C .. bring back hydraulic steering on the MX5 as well you gits
Note that I don't mean that negatively by the way, the car industry benefits from this new way of doing things. The problem is the fervour that Tesla fans generate has created a backlash in the USA mainly by investors and non car enthusiasts. So Tesla fans tend to now get defensive about anything , including a new car.
Reading the TESLA based websites, twitter feeds etc they go from claiming that the Taycan is not a threat but actually an ally, another EV to help the world move to a better sustainable future, which it probably is, but then they can't help themselves and revert to saying the Taycan is far worse than the Model S or 3 . They have a table to prove it
https://twitter.com/TeslaPodcast/status/1169321285...
As Chris Harris has said, nobody has driven the Taycan yet but people are just cherry picking stats to show something. Of course driving pleasure is low down the list of a lot of TESLA drivers requirements, A to B people, where automonous driving potential is more exciting, while you tweet. That's not really a PH thing of course, Tesla and Porsche owners on here I am not tarring with that brush of course, but a lot of people that is the main attraction, not the driving, the tech etc.
Getting back to the topic and comments above, it is rather silly to compare the Taycan to the model S as people have said. I always thought of the Model S as an insanely quick competitor to a Merc E class or BMW 5 series, not any Porsche. I guess the Taycan just has been linked because it is the first 4 door similar challenger. I don't think Tesla ever designed the S type to be a sportscar?
Having said all that, Elon Musk has said that the S type will be going to the Nurburgring next week
https://electrek.co/2019/09/05/tesla-model-s-nurbu...
Presumably they will hire the entire circuit at short notice.
The problem I have with this is that it will still not tell us how the Taycan drives compared to the model S, just another number to be used, or ignored, by the fans once again, depending on the result.
Hopefully it won't happen....
PS I'd take an AMG E63 estate over either of em !
I'm Mr 20th C .. bring back hydraulic steering on the MX5 as well you gits Edited by Gandahar on Friday 6th September 07:46
ajprice said:
TheDeuce said:
It already has left the Tesla behind - they've focussed on the entire performance package which is why they managed this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg&fe... Which is frankly staggering and well worth a watch if you have 7 minutes and 42 seconds to spare
No Tesla is going to get close to that anytime soon! Within 8 miles of hard driving the Tesla has to limit it's power to avoid overheating, and beyond 10 miles hard driving the limit is extreme - hence, I think around 10 minutes is about as good as the Tesla's have managed at the Nurburgring. And to be honest, even before the performance limiter kicks in, a Model S isn't getting around the Nurburgring anything like as fast as the Taycan. The Model S just isn't built for performance from the ground up.
In totally unrelated news, a Tesla Model S will be at Nurburgring next week... https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/11697518390356...No Tesla is going to get close to that anytime soon! Within 8 miles of hard driving the Tesla has to limit it's power to avoid overheating, and beyond 10 miles hard driving the limit is extreme - hence, I think around 10 minutes is about as good as the Tesla's have managed at the Nurburgring. And to be honest, even before the performance limiter kicks in, a Model S isn't getting around the Nurburgring anything like as fast as the Taycan. The Model S just isn't built for performance from the ground up.
RobDickinson said:
Unless there's some new magic sauce the model s won't get close to the taycan on the ring time
It might do 8 minutes if they turn off all thermal protection and dispose of the battery afterwards. I also suspect it could be a prototype with e.g. 2021MY battery chemistry, which will help slightly.
Or they might just run it in autopilot mode around the track in say under 10 minutes, and claim that as a record. Would be pretty cool to be fair.
Gandahar said:
There is fanboy warfare, or rather Tesla fans fighting the legacy industrial world, disciples following the Messiah.
Note that I don't mean that negatively by the way, the car industry benefits from this new way of doing things. The problem is the fervour that Tesla fans generate has created a backlash in the USA mainly by investors and non car enthusiasts. So Tesla fans tend to now get defensive about anything , including a new car.
Reading the TESLA based websites, twitter feeds etc they go from claiming that the Taycan is not a threat but actually an ally, another EV to help the world move to a better sustainable future, which it probably is, but then they can't help themselves and revert to saying the Taycan is far worse than the Model S or 3 . They have a table to prove it
https://twitter.com/TeslaPodcast/status/1169321285...
As Chris Harris has said, nobody has driven the Taycan yet but people are just cherry picking stats to show something. Of course driving pleasure is low down the list of a lot of TESLA drivers requirements, A to B people, where automonous driving potential is more exciting, while you tweet. That's not really a PH thing of course, Tesla and Porsche owners on here I am not tarring with that brush of course, but a lot of people that is the main attraction, not the driving, the tech etc.
Getting back to the topic and comments above, it is rather silly to compare the Taycan to the model S as people have said. I always thought of the Model S as an insanely quick competitor to a Merc E class or BMW 5 series, not any Porsche. I guess the Taycan just has been linked because it is the first 4 door similar challenger. I don't think Tesla ever designed the S type to be a sportscar?
Having said all that, Elon Musk has said that the S type will be going to the Nurburgring next week
https://electrek.co/2019/09/05/tesla-model-s-nurbu...
Presumably they will hire the entire circuit at short notice.
The problem I have with this is that it will still not tell us how the Taycan drives compared to the model S, just another number to be used, or ignored, by the fans once again, depending on the result.
Hopefully it won't happen....
PS I'd take an AMG E63 estate over either of em ! I'm Mr 20th C .. bring back hydraulic steering on the MX5 as well you gits
I've come across this as well. Its weird. Rather than celebrating another entrant to the market of EVs, they're pulling out all the stops to show why what Porsche, VW et al are doing is "Nice try, but not good enough. Tesla's are way better". Odd mentality.Note that I don't mean that negatively by the way, the car industry benefits from this new way of doing things. The problem is the fervour that Tesla fans generate has created a backlash in the USA mainly by investors and non car enthusiasts. So Tesla fans tend to now get defensive about anything , including a new car.
Reading the TESLA based websites, twitter feeds etc they go from claiming that the Taycan is not a threat but actually an ally, another EV to help the world move to a better sustainable future, which it probably is, but then they can't help themselves and revert to saying the Taycan is far worse than the Model S or 3 . They have a table to prove it
https://twitter.com/TeslaPodcast/status/1169321285...
As Chris Harris has said, nobody has driven the Taycan yet but people are just cherry picking stats to show something. Of course driving pleasure is low down the list of a lot of TESLA drivers requirements, A to B people, where automonous driving potential is more exciting, while you tweet. That's not really a PH thing of course, Tesla and Porsche owners on here I am not tarring with that brush of course, but a lot of people that is the main attraction, not the driving, the tech etc.
Getting back to the topic and comments above, it is rather silly to compare the Taycan to the model S as people have said. I always thought of the Model S as an insanely quick competitor to a Merc E class or BMW 5 series, not any Porsche. I guess the Taycan just has been linked because it is the first 4 door similar challenger. I don't think Tesla ever designed the S type to be a sportscar?
Having said all that, Elon Musk has said that the S type will be going to the Nurburgring next week
https://electrek.co/2019/09/05/tesla-model-s-nurbu...
Presumably they will hire the entire circuit at short notice.
The problem I have with this is that it will still not tell us how the Taycan drives compared to the model S, just another number to be used, or ignored, by the fans once again, depending on the result.
Hopefully it won't happen....
PS I'd take an AMG E63 estate over either of em !
I'm Mr 20th C .. bring back hydraulic steering on the MX5 as well you gits Edited by Gandahar on Friday 6th September 07:46
Browsing through reddit I've seen numerous acceleration comparisons made and because Taycan is a few tenths off a Model S' ultimate performance, therefore "Nice try mate, but your cars rubbish".
Then the 2-speed gearbox has got people all a fuzz... because Tesla hasn't used a 2 speed box, therefore "Nice try, but not good enough" and even one guy suggested the gearbox exists simply to keep "traditional" service centres busy with repairs. Eh? presumably then, many Formula E teams and the likes of Rimac are also wrong for thinking of using a gearbox to enable broader operating range. (its an interesting little gearbox as well).
Now tweets about a Model S going round the ring... they're dead sure a Raven Model S will cream it. Because its got faster 0-60 and they've sorted the cooling. And then theres people wondering whether ripping the interior out will do the job. Its a big luxury sedan with room for 7. Its not going to best a 4 seat sports car built by a company that basically owns the sports car tree and has all the motorsport engineering heritage to back it up. They're two completely different tools! apples and oranges!
its like its beyond reality that Porsche can engineer something spectacular....they've only been doing it for decades!
I think part of the issue is that Tesla and EVs have brought a lot of new people into the "petrol head" world who would otherwise not have cared what they drove so long as it went from A to B and allowed them to connect their phone. These guys now bring the same mentality they use to score graphics cards and smart phones against each other (spec sheet wars) to cars and cars are just so much more than whats written on the top trumps card!
<< As Chris Harris has said, nobody has driven the Taycan yet but people are just cherry picking stats to show something. >>
Andrew Frankel test drove the Taycan for Autocar. From a quck scan in the shop, he was hugely impressed, calling it the best EV by a mile. He was more equivocal about it as an out-and-out sports car because, despite the stunning performance, there's so much less driver involvement.
It will certainly be very cheap to run because it will probably enjoy "negative depreciation" like many of Porsche's cars where demand exceeds supply
Andrew Frankel test drove the Taycan for Autocar. From a quck scan in the shop, he was hugely impressed, calling it the best EV by a mile. He was more equivocal about it as an out-and-out sports car because, despite the stunning performance, there's so much less driver involvement.
It will certainly be very cheap to run because it will probably enjoy "negative depreciation" like many of Porsche's cars where demand exceeds supply
Mikehig said:
<< As Chris Harris has said, nobody has driven the Taycan yet but people are just cherry picking stats to show something. >>
Andrew Frankel test drove the Taycan for Autocar. From a quck scan in the shop, he was hugely impressed, calling it the best EV by a mile. He was more equivocal about it as an out-and-out sports car because, despite the stunning performance, there's so much less driver involvement.
It will certainly be very cheap to run because it will probably enjoy "negative depreciation" like many of Porsche's cars where demand exceeds supply
I just hope Bjorn Nyland (TeslaBjorn?) can get hold of one to do his tests!Andrew Frankel test drove the Taycan for Autocar. From a quck scan in the shop, he was hugely impressed, calling it the best EV by a mile. He was more equivocal about it as an out-and-out sports car because, despite the stunning performance, there's so much less driver involvement.
It will certainly be very cheap to run because it will probably enjoy "negative depreciation" like many of Porsche's cars where demand exceeds supply
Otispunkmeyer said:
I think part of the issue is that Tesla and EVs have brought a lot of new people into the "petrol head" world who would otherwise not have cared what they drove so long as it went from A to B and allowed them to connect their phone. These guys now bring the same mentality they use to score graphics cards and smart phones against each other (spec sheet wars) to cars and cars are just so much more than whats written on the top trumps card!
That's an interesting point, of course in the computer world we have AMD v Intel, nvidia v ATi ( now AMD ) etc etc. Here you also get an extra dimension of it's a new player taking on the mighty dinosaurs and beating them at their own game.I actually think that is quite good, it brings in new ideas and enthusiasm and gives the original players a bit of a shock. And hats off to Musk for driving that forward. I like space etc as well, and Tesla and Blue Origin and Electron are doing the same there, new entrants in an old field bringing new ideas forward. Of course, guess what.... it's now SpaceX v Blue Origin and both have fans
Everyone loves Electron as the come from New Zealand...What drives me mad is when people can only see good things with "their" player and only bad things with the competitor, it makes you look foolish. This is a good example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvbi3ry3Vr8
Makes the excuse that it is another EV, which is great "but ...." then goes on to-
1. Say it will be a flop
2. Quotes from a table selected to show Model S in a good light
3. Claims the gross margin Tesla is making is more than the Taycan is ( "just my theory" )
4. Taycan is not making any money /losing it ("my guess)
5. Claims sales in 6 months sales will flop just after saying they have got 30 000 orders and build at 20 000 per year.
6. Taycan sales will flop as Porsche salesmen have no incentive to sell it and gives the Jaguar an example ( ???)
7. VW and dieselgate so Taycan deserves to be a flop to punish them.
How rational is that when comparing two completely different cars in different market segments? He even made himself look like you would stereotype someone who would make this sort of video, he is a pastiche.
There's enthusiasm and then there is mysticism.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Browsing through reddit...
Am not sure I've seen any negativity to the Taycan on here from Tesla owners, most if not all the negativity seems to be from the same 'EVs are rubbish' brigade.Am not sure why another bothers with reddit or Twitter, 99% of stuff posted on social media is junk, and am sure most people with half a brain realises.
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