How long before this becomes the norm?
Discussion
From the Porsche Taycan Turbo (yes, how f
king stupid does that "Turbo" continue to be?) review:
"On more common 400V chargers, the Taycan will charge at just 50kW as standard, with 150kW capacity only as a £294 option. Porsche isn’t the only car maker to start offering better charge capacities as options and it’s not a great look. Optional ‘up to’ rates could become the auto industry’s equivalent of overstated broadband speeds. It’ll confuse and justifiably annoy people who haven’t yet forgotten the diesel scandal. Just fit what conscience says you really should, and be consistent about it."
Not sure who else the other car makers are, but just when you think there are no further lows to which companies won't sink, they find shiny new ways to disappoint you!
king stupid does that "Turbo" continue to be?) review:"On more common 400V chargers, the Taycan will charge at just 50kW as standard, with 150kW capacity only as a £294 option. Porsche isn’t the only car maker to start offering better charge capacities as options and it’s not a great look. Optional ‘up to’ rates could become the auto industry’s equivalent of overstated broadband speeds. It’ll confuse and justifiably annoy people who haven’t yet forgotten the diesel scandal. Just fit what conscience says you really should, and be consistent about it."
Not sure who else the other car makers are, but just when you think there are no further lows to which companies won't sink, they find shiny new ways to disappoint you!
Personally I have no problem with it - it's just the automotive industry catching up with the way the IT industry has worked for decades. Hardware is, broadly speaking, a commodity; it's software features and service contracts which generate the revenue.
I certainly don't see it as any different than the long-standing tendency for car manufacturers to sell the same engine in two or more states of tune, differentiated only by the ECU programming (or going back a bit further by some sort of artificial air-flow restriction).
I certainly don't see it as any different than the long-standing tendency for car manufacturers to sell the same engine in two or more states of tune, differentiated only by the ECU programming (or going back a bit further by some sort of artificial air-flow restriction).
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 25th September 18:42
kambites said:
Personally I have no problem with it - it's just the automotive industry catching up with the way the IT industry has worked for decades. Hardware is, broadly speaking, a commodity; it's software features and service contracts which generate the revenue.
I certainly don't see it as any different than the long-standing tendency for car manufacturers to sell the same engine in two or more states of tune, differentiated only by the ECU programming (or going back a bit further by some sort of artificial air-flow restriction).
That about sums it up, though I wouldn’t really say they were catching up. The automotive industry have been charging to allow embedded functions to be used for many years. I certainly don't see it as any different than the long-standing tendency for car manufacturers to sell the same engine in two or more states of tune, differentiated only by the ECU programming (or going back a bit further by some sort of artificial air-flow restriction).
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 25th September 18:42
One of the biggest "moans" by the mainstream media reflection of public perception is that you need to spend hours filling the thing up.
So what do some car manufacturers do?
Reinforce this by making you pay more to speed this up?
Stupidly self-defeating.
Find some other luxury addition to gouge us on, fine, but this is a measure of hypocrisy which I find personally distasteful.
So what do some car manufacturers do?
Reinforce this by making you pay more to speed this up?
Stupidly self-defeating.
Find some other luxury addition to gouge us on, fine, but this is a measure of hypocrisy which I find personally distasteful.
Charging £300 so a £150k car can charge at the best speeds? That's a massive piss take but not unusual for Porsche.
Surely a big plus point for Tesla and their supercharging network no, especially with the Model 3 LR and Performance able to do 250kw as standard (where available of course)?
Surely a big plus point for Tesla and their supercharging network no, especially with the Model 3 LR and Performance able to do 250kw as standard (where available of course)?
whs ^^
JonChalk said:
just when you think there are no further lows to which companies won't sink, they find shiny new ways to disappoint you!
It's not really a new thing though, they've been ripping us off like that for years. DC charging wasn't even standard on the early i3's (a £560 option) and I didn't spec it. Lived with it for 4 years without ever needing it but, then again, things were a bit different back then. When the i3 first launched in 2013 there wasn't a single CCS DC charging station in the UK.Or be like Tesla and build-in compatibility with upcoming charging standards, as they did with the Model 3.
Even though the 250KW Superchargers are just now being rolled out, the Dual Motor and Performance versions have included compatibility with the higher charging rate since the cars first hit the market in mid-2018.
In reality, even at the current (SWIDT?) 150KW rate (upgraded from the original 100KW), Supercharging during a road trip now basically takes less time than it does to answer nature's call and grab a quick bite.
Even though the 250KW Superchargers are just now being rolled out, the Dual Motor and Performance versions have included compatibility with the higher charging rate since the cars first hit the market in mid-2018.
In reality, even at the current (SWIDT?) 150KW rate (upgraded from the original 100KW), Supercharging during a road trip now basically takes less time than it does to answer nature's call and grab a quick bite.
I have to say that I can't see why many people would buy a Taycan with the current charging infrastructure, if they ever want to go on a long journey
If you look on abetterrouteplanner.com, Truro to Warrington return (a trip I do several times a year) in Tesla Model 3 Performance will require 3 charging stops totaling 1 hour 12 minutes, assuming 100% charge at start. The Taycan turbo s also requires 3 stops but takes 2 hours 59 minutes with the optional charger, and 3 hours 8 minutes without. Even I would struggle to stop for that long...
Give it a couple of years and I'm sure the figures will be much better.
If you look on abetterrouteplanner.com, Truro to Warrington return (a trip I do several times a year) in Tesla Model 3 Performance will require 3 charging stops totaling 1 hour 12 minutes, assuming 100% charge at start. The Taycan turbo s also requires 3 stops but takes 2 hours 59 minutes with the optional charger, and 3 hours 8 minutes without. Even I would struggle to stop for that long...
Give it a couple of years and I'm sure the figures will be much better.
Fastlane said:
I have to say that I can't see why many people would buy a Taycan with the current charging infrastructure, if they ever want to go on a long journey
they will just take their G63, Senna, GT2 RS, or anyone of their other carsmost ppl paying 150k for a porsche are not short a few bob
Dave Hedgehog said:
they will just take their G63, Senna, GT2 RS, or anyone of their other cars
most ppl paying 150k for a porsche are not short a few bob
I'm sure that will be the case for some owners, but I would think there are quite a few for whom the Taycan will be their everyday car and so will expect it to be able to whisk them around the country in comfort without 3 hour lay overs with the "common people"...most ppl paying 150k for a porsche are not short a few bob
Fastlane said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
they will just take their G63, Senna, GT2 RS, or anyone of their other cars
most ppl paying 150k for a porsche are not short a few bob
I'm sure that will be the case for some owners, but I would think there are quite a few for whom the Taycan will be their everyday car and so will expect it to be able to whisk them around the country in comfort without 3 hour lay overs with the "common people"...most ppl paying 150k for a porsche are not short a few bob
Fastlane said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
they will just take their G63, Senna, GT2 RS, or anyone of their other cars
most ppl paying 150k for a porsche are not short a few bob
I'm sure that will be the case for some owners, but I would think there are quite a few for whom the Taycan will be their everyday car and so will expect it to be able to whisk them around the country in comfort without 3 hour lay overs with the "common people"...most ppl paying 150k for a porsche are not short a few bob
Jimbo. said:
If they’re whisking themselves around the country often enough for charging time to be an issue...then why are they buying such a car? Right tool for the job and all that.
That is my point. I am pretty sure there are people who have put a deposit down so they can use the Taycan as their everyday car (successful small business owners for instance who are taking advantage of the very low BiK from next year) not realising that in the UK (at present at least) it isn't fit for that purpose. Dave Hedgehog said:
I suspect many people won’t use rapid charging
Home charger is all I will ever need and only twice a week
Yep! Cheapest way too, unless you find a free public charger - increasingly rare. Even 14p/kWh is better than public places. Get on a 'Green' deal with 5p/kWh and it's vastly cheaper. Unless and until the treasury realises they're losing more and more tax revenue on EV power...Home charger is all I will ever need and only twice a week
Yep, and for much of the Zoe's life so far you've had the choice of an R motor (22kw AC charging) or Q (43kw AC charging) at a premium. So not exactly a new thing to tick a box and get faster charging for a bit more money.
The Taycan option is tricky as it'll do the headline 350kw speeds (at 800v), the option is to speed up 400v charging. The vast majority of 400v charging is only at 50kw anyway, so the option won't do anything for you on those. Faster 400v rapid chargers are rarer in this country than Ionity 800v ones.
But yes, a bit silly to have it as a £294 option on a £115k+ car. At least the Premiere edition has it as standard.
The Taycan option is tricky as it'll do the headline 350kw speeds (at 800v), the option is to speed up 400v charging. The vast majority of 400v charging is only at 50kw anyway, so the option won't do anything for you on those. Faster 400v rapid chargers are rarer in this country than Ionity 800v ones.
But yes, a bit silly to have it as a £294 option on a £115k+ car. At least the Premiere edition has it as standard.
https://ionity.eu/en
Rapid charging coming to the UK, the infrastructure is coming..... no more of this crappy 50KW rubbish.
Rapid charging coming to the UK, the infrastructure is coming..... no more of this crappy 50KW rubbish.
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