Salary sacrifice leasing

[TWFY]

SiH said:

We tried to set up a SS scheme with Octopus and after a lot of dicking around on their part they decided that they couldn't work with us. We're a small startup with about 9 employees, ~£8M in the bank from VC funding but no revenue and no plans for revenue in the next couple of years. Our exit is to sell to one of the large companies in our area once we've completed our development work. I totally understand their perspective but it was a shame they pissed us around for about 3 months.

This is particularly interesting...so Octopus pulled the deal as you couldn't give them financial guarantees? Did they have an issue with the number of employees too?

[anonymous-user]

TWFY said:

zj2016 said:

The 24 month lead time and the fact that the spec would have been poorer than the i4 put me off.

However on the plus side it did seem cheap given the price of the car.

If I’d known that I would be looking at c 12 months on the BMW, not the 6 I was quoted, my decision might have been different!

Hey, I'm new around here but have been following this thread with great interest.

I'm currently working for a company that uses Zenith for their SS supplier but I'm about to move to a new employer who is planning to implement one in the coming months.

The rates you've quoted for the i4 are really competitive via Zenith; much more competitive than I've seen via Zenith myself so guessing you're in the £100k+ pocket of income?

Does anyone have a view on which supplier is the best? I'd love to hear any comparisons that have been completed. I've found Zenith a bit difficult to deal with and their website a bit challenging when picking specific options but my main priority is that they're competitive!

Cheers in advance.

No not in the £100k plus income unfortunately, just a 40% tax payer.

I did order my car late last year though and I’ve heard colleagues mention that the prices have gone up.

I’ve got no experience other than with Zenith, but so far so good, although the wait for the car is longgggggg…

[TWFY]

zj2016 said:

No not in the £100k plus income unfortunately, just a 40% tax payer.

I did order my car late last year though and I’ve heard colleagues mention that the prices have gone up.

I’ve got no experience other than with Zenith, but so far so good, although the wait for the car is longgggggg…

Thanks for the swift response. I can't even select an i4 on Zenith right now so that's telling!

Hope you get it soon. Mind if I ask what spec you chose?

[anonymous-user]

TWFY said:

zj2016 said:

No not in the £100k plus income unfortunately, just a 40% tax payer.

I did order my car late last year though and I’ve heard colleagues mention that the prices have gone up.

I’ve got no experience other than with Zenith, but so far so good, although the wait for the car is longgggggg…

Thanks for the swift response. I can't even select an i4 on Zenith right now so that's telling!

Hope you get it soon. Mind if I ask what spec you chose?

My colleague got a quote a few weeks ago and I think even a base spec 40 m sport for about £550 net!

I’ve gone for Portimao Blue, Black interior with blue stitching. Red callipers (had chosen blue but no longer available). Extended shadow line package. 20” wheels (reduce range by 50 miles!)

[anonymous-user]

zj2016 said:

TWFY said:

zj2016 said:

No not in the £100k plus income unfortunately, just a 40% tax payer.

I did order my car late last year though and I’ve heard colleagues mention that the prices have gone up.

I’ve got no experience other than with Zenith, but so far so good, although the wait for the car is longgggggg…

Thanks for the swift response. I can't even select an i4 on Zenith right now so that's telling!

Hope you get it soon. Mind if I ask what spec you chose?

My colleague got a quote a few weeks ago and I think even a base spec 40 m sport for about £550 net!

I’ve gone for Portimao Blue, Black interior with blue stitching. Red callipers (had chosen blue but no longer available). Extended shadow line package. 20” wheels (reduce range by 50 miles!)

Should look like this.

[TWFY]

Very nice. I've coveted the i4 for a long time. Will probably have to be very patient with the new employer as they conduct their procurement process on a SS provider and realistically can't see myself having one until 2025 at this rate but I might get lucky and be able to afford a Taycan!

[TWFY]

• insertHomerdribblingphoto*

[theboss]

At what point do smaller companies think they must be better off just buying a small fleet of cars and employing somebody to do the admin rather than paying these exorbitant fees hand over fist?

[SiH]

TWFY said:

SiH said:

We tried to set up a SS scheme with Octopus and after a lot of dicking around on their part they decided that they couldn't work with us. We're a small startup with about 9 employees, ~£8M in the bank from VC funding but no revenue and no plans for revenue in the next couple of years. Our exit is to sell to one of the large companies in our area once we've completed our development work. I totally understand their perspective but it was a shame they pissed us around for about 3 months.

This is particularly interesting...so Octopus pulled the deal as you couldn't give them financial guarantees? Did they have an issue with the number of employees too?

I think it was a combination of both factors, they (their credit provider) couldn't get their head round the fact that we didn't have any revenue and didn't have any short-term plans to generate revenue. We tried to explain the business plan and also the sources of our funding but they weren't having any of it. Combined with the small number of staff meant it just wasn't worth their time to try and understand things. Going from nothing to being sold for ~$300M just didn't compute to them.

[AyBee]

TheDrownedApe said:

Jesus folks, it's the same as any leasing deal; chase the deal not the car. My SS tesla lease are stupidly expensive; therefore I don't look at them

I'm not sure it really is though. Plenty of reasons why people use SS, but if you're in the £100-120k bracket, taking a more expensive car to get you below £100k might make more sense than a cheaper one that doesn't take you below £100k. Niche situation, but all relevant to SS leasing.

[TheDrownedApe]

AyBee said:

I'm not sure it really is though. Plenty of reasons why people use SS, but if you're in the £100-120k bracket, taking a more expensive car to get you below £100k might make more sense than a cheaper one that doesn't take you below £100k. Niche situation, but all relevant to SS leasing.

Haha for those high rollers then yeah it might be different circumstances. For me it's the deal, 99% of cars I can lease are crazy prices and I'm better off buying. However a £47 p11d car for net £400 @ 36/10k with maint and insurance is a no brainer

[ashenfie]

Yeah who would have ever though a Tory government would have the highest tax rate in Europe will bar one tiny snow flake in Sweden.

[Heres Johnny]

ashenfie said:

Yeah who would have ever though a Tory government would have the highest tax rate in Europe will bar one tiny snow flake in Sweden.

Do you actually know what you're talking about? It doesn't seem so,

Germany, rates are 42% v our 40% band, and our effective 45% band is limited, dropping back down to 40%, whereas Germany switch to 45% perpetually above a level.

France, rates up to 45%, and even 48% on very high incomes

Spain, you pay income tax at 19% with no tax allowance, and 24% when we're paying 20%. The high earners do OK though, not that Spain has many high earners which is why they tax the low earners.

Italy, starting rate 23% on everything climbing to 43%

Do you need any more examples?

[theboss]

Heres Johnny said:

Do you actually know what you're talking about? It doesn't seem so,

Germany, rates are 42% v our 40% band, and our effective 45% band is limited, dropping back down to 40%, whereas Germany switch to 45% perpetually above a level.

France, rates up to 45%, and even 48% on very high incomes

Spain, you pay income tax at 19% with no tax allowance, and 24% when we're paying 20%. The high earners do OK though, not that Spain has many high earners which is why they tax the low earners.

Italy, starting rate 23% on everything climbing to 43%

Do you need any more examples?

transpose these rates to a sole high earner supporting a spouse and children and it starts to look a bit different.

Taxes in this country are eye-watering for single high earner families.

[ashenfie]

Heres Johnny said:

ashenfie said:

Yeah who would have ever though a Tory government would have the highest tax rate in Europe will bar one tiny snow flake in Sweden.

Do you actually know what you're talking about? It doesn't seem so,

Germany, rates are 42% v our 40% band, and our effective 45% band is limited, dropping back down to 40%, whereas Germany switch to 45% perpetually above a level.

France, rates up to 45%, and even 48% on very high incomes

Spain, you pay income tax at 19% with no tax allowance, and 24% when we're paying 20%. The high earners do OK though, not that Spain has many high earners which is why they tax the low earners.

Italy, starting rate 23% on everything climbing to 43%

Do you need any more examples?

60% is more than all those rates, right? That’s how much you pay for 100-120k bracket.

Edited by ashenfie on Sunday 18th September 19:57

[TheDrownedApe]

theboss said:

transpose these rates to a sole high earner supporting a spouse and children and it starts to look a bit different.

Taxes in this country are eye-watering for single high earner families.

Damn those 1%ers lol

[oop north]

Heres Johnny said:

ashenfie said:

Yeah who would have ever though a Tory government would have the highest tax rate in Europe will bar one tiny snow flake in Sweden.

Do you actually know what you're talking about? It doesn't seem so,

Germany, rates are 42% v our 40% band, and our effective 45% band is limited, dropping back down to 40%, whereas Germany switch to 45% perpetually above a level.

France, rates up to 45%, and even 48% on very high incomes

Spain, you pay income tax at 19% with no tax allowance, and 24% when we're paying 20%. The high earners do OK though, not that Spain has many high earners which is why they tax the low earners.

Italy, starting rate 23% on everything climbing to 43%

Do you need any more examples?

From £50,270 to £100,000 uk tax rate is 40%. Then 60% until £125,540, then 40% to £150,000 and then 45% for everything…

It’s the 60% band that is limited

[theboss]

TheDrownedApe said:

theboss said:

transpose these rates to a sole high earner supporting a spouse and children and it starts to look a bit different.

Taxes in this country are eye-watering for single high earner families.

Damn those 1%ers lol

Not really, if we taxed households the way most advanced economies do (including the oft cited 'high tax rate' France and Germany) family units would pay a lot less tax overall, especially poorer families.

The current problem is that poorer families get 'topped up' with benefits which are withdrawn if anyone earns more, so the effective marginal tax rate is astronomical, in some cases 70-90%.

There's no incentive for people to work and earn more if they can't keep it.

Summed up quite well here - https://ifstudies.org/blog/taxing-families-in-the-...

I had a good chat with a colleague in Paris once, he was staggered how much tax he would pay in the UK. ISTR if you had a low or non-working spouse and 3 kids you could earn to approximately 220k euros combined before their equivalent of 'higher rate' kicked in.

[PushedDover]

PushedDover said:

As mentioned above elsewhere, my Tesla Y is 3y and 12k pa
Takes £400 from my take home.
I am keen to know how I can extend it already with OctopusEV (only 6mo in) as it seems like a winning deal.

FYI if interested. six months in on my original contract :

36months, 36000miles:
Gross monthly cost: £1025.95
Net monthly cost: £434.18

I have asked what it is to extend as the MY does all we need for the foreseeable and see prices for a replacement only going one way :

Outcome:

48months, 48,000miles:
Gross monthly cost: £878.42
Net monthly cost: £379.96

[SWoll]

PushedDover said:

PushedDover said:

As mentioned above elsewhere, my Tesla Y is 3y and 12k pa
Takes £400 from my take home.
I am keen to know how I can extend it already with OctopusEV (only 6mo in) as it seems like a winning deal.

FYI if interested. six months in on my original contract :

36months, 36000miles:
?Gross monthly cost: £1025.95
?Net monthly cost: £434.18

I have asked what it is to extend as the MY does all we need for the foreseeable and see prices for a replacement only going one way :

Outcome:

48months, 48,000miles:
?Gross monthly cost: £878.42
?Net monthly cost: £379.96

It's a winning deal as to get those figures you'd need to be earning £115-125k and the payment for the car is saving you the maximum possible amount due to offsettig the loss of personal allowance above £100k and essentially 60% tax.

At current SS rates, for that level of earnings, a £106k Porsche Taycan GTS would only be a couple of hundred quid more NET despite costing 50% more gross. It's the absolute sweetspot for salary sacrifice as someone earning £100k or £140k would be paying closer to £650 a month.

48 month deals will always come in 10-15% cheaper than 36.

Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 5th October 23:16