Salary sacrifice leasing
Discussion
NSS89 said:
Is this via Zenith by any chance? My employer is also about to offer its employees a SS scheme and I’ve been given access to the portal as a demo. It looks the same as your screenshot. When I first looked up the Model 3 SR+ it was £425 for 20% tax payer. I logged in again yesterday to have a look and now it’s showing as £595. Not sure why the change but will check again which it actually goes live next month.
Yes Zenith. As stated, it seems to work out for a 40/45% tax payer a bit cheaper than a personal lease, but obviously much more expensive on the pre-tax figure. Cascade360 said:
Yes Zenith. As stated, it seems to work out for a 40/45% tax payer a bit cheaper than a personal lease, but obviously much more expensive on the pre-tax figure.
Thanks for confirming. I'm just confused as to why it was just under £200 pm cheaper when I first looked a few weeks ago. Not sure if you've seen the price I'm referring to?At the old price I was going to order one as soon as the scheme went live but with these new prices I don't think I will.
Cascade360 said:
600 net cost certainly doesn't get me a Taycan through my scheme!
Exactly - they post that and then put up a screenshot of a base Model Taycan at £950 with £1k initial payment . Only £350+ more expensive than posted (before options) 
SWoll said:
NET cost is meaningless in that comparison. My point is that even after the tax 'saving' you are still paying more than someone leasing direct, which is ridiculous. If you keep the car for the full term the finance company are making almost £15k (75%) more than on a personal lease, which is ridiculous.
The cost to you should be < £500 a month IMHO.
You realise the SS Tesla price of £642 includes Insurance, tyres and there is no initial payment, It's only £95 more a month than your lease cost. So not that much in it. You're basically saving a few pounds by leasing and then have to spend time shopping around for Insurance.The cost to you should be < £500 a month IMHO.
Edited by SDK on Monday 18th October 14:35
SDK said:
You realise the SS Tesla price of £642 includes Insurance, tyres and there is no initial payment, It's only £95 more a month than your lease cost. So not that much in it. You're basically saving a few pounds by leasing and then have to spend time shopping around for Insurance.
The relevant number is 560/520 - the majority salary sacrificing a Tesla will be 40/45% tax payers. So it is definitely cheaper than a personal lease.Edited by SDK on Monday 18th October 14:35
SDK said:
Cascade360 said:
600 net cost certainly doesn't get me a Taycan through my scheme!
Exactly - they post that and then put up a screenshot of a base Model Taycan at £950 with £1k initial payment . Only £350+ more expensive than posted (before options) SWoll said:
NET cost is meaningless in that comparison. My point is that even after the tax 'saving' you are still paying more than someone leasing direct, which is ridiculous. If you keep the car for the full term the finance company are making almost £15k (75%) more than on a personal lease, which is ridiculous.
The cost to you should be < £500 a month IMHO.
You realise the SS Tesla price of £642 includes Insurance, tyres and there is no initial payment, It's only £95 more a month than your lease cost. So not that much in it. You're basically saving a few pounds by leasing and then have to spend time shopping around for Insurance.The cost to you should be < £500 a month IMHO.
Edited by SDK on Monday 18th October 14:35
You should be paying considerably less than a personal lease after your tax saving, and the examples I've provided also have no initial payment as they are 1 + 35 terms.
The SS companies are profiteering off the popularity of EV's and low BIK, no excuse for a Model 3 SR+ to be priced at £925 a month on those terms as per your quote when a personal lease with maintenance is £540.
Cascade360 said:
The relevant number is 560/520 - the majority salary sacrificing a Tesla will be 40/45% tax payers. So it is definitely cheaper than a personal lease.
It should be significantly cheaper, not a few quid.Heres Johnny said:
If it’s say only £100 a month cheaper to you as a company car, then I hope you don’t do more than 230 business a month as 4p a mile v 45p would wipe that out.
This is a good point and one which I'm still unclear on.Example being, the 4p / mile for electric cars is, as far as I know, for company cars.
But, Salary Sacrifice isn't a company car arrangement I don't think i.e. if you get a car allowance, you keep that, and pay for the SS lease. That being the case, I presume that the allowance per mile is therefore 45p; I can't see anywhere on .Gov where it differentiates between fuel types.
The bit I'm not clear on is because with a SS lease, you get everything included e.g. insurance, maintenance etc so it is effect like a company car ; ergo does this mean you are indeed on the 4p/mile allowance.
In which case, agree with what's being said above, there needs to be a significant gap in cost comparing SS lease vs personal lease otherwise one may as well go personal lease and have access to the 45ppm rate.
OR just go the traditional company car route and look at trading down some grades if that is an option. This is currently my default position; trade down and get +£50/grade and get a Mini Cooper SE and a load of money in my pocket.
I'd like to think anyone on PH will be able to spot any SS lease prices which are taking the *&^% but, for the cast majority who don't follow such things, they'll just take it and jump on the bandwagon.
SWoll said:
It should be significantly cheaper, not a few quid.
I don't disagree that they are taking the piss - but from the view of the customer, cheaper is cheaper - in my case, about 75 quid a month cheaper which is not insignificant. Heres Johnny said:
If it’s say only £100 a month cheaper to you as a company car, then I hope you don’t do more than 230 business a month as 4p a mile v 45p would wipe that out.
Not a company car so not relevant. Cascade360 said:
SWoll said:
It should be significantly cheaper, not a few quid.
I don't disagree that they are taking the piss - but from the view of the customer, cheaper is cheaper - in my case, about 75 quid a month cheaper which is not insignificant. Heres Johnny said:
If it’s say only £100 a month cheaper to you as a company car, then I hope you don’t do more than 230 business a month as 4p a mile v 45p would wipe that out.
Not a company car so not relevant. They get away with it for exactly the reason you give, it's still a bit cheaper to you the end customer. But how about og instead of you employer paying the lease company £400 a month more each month they gave you a £5k a year raise?
And SS is a company car I'm afraid, hence BIK costs being shown in the calculation.
snorkel sucker said:
But, Salary Sacrifice isn't a company car arrangement I don't think i.e. if you get a car allowance, you keep that, and pay for the SS lease. That being the case, I presume that the allowance per mile is therefore 45p; I can't see anywhere on .Gov where it differentiates between fuel types.
As above. If there's BIK to consider it's a company car. You aren't signing the finance deal, your employer is.
Edited by SWoll on Monday 18th October 15:57
Well it is a company car technically I suppose, but I don't get a car allowance nor do I get mileage as I don't do any business miles, so discussions around mileage rates and car allowances do not impact me. All I care about is whether it is cheaper than an equivalent personal lease - and it is. I agree it should be much cheaper...but sadly it isn't.
I don't follow the 5k pay rise point - of the 925, I am paying all of it, not my employer, who is paying none of it - of the 400 different between 925 and 520, that is my tax savings. Ideally I'd pay 560 i.e the personal lease price and get tax savings to bring that to 350/400 a month or w/e but that isn't on offer.
I don't follow the 5k pay rise point - of the 925, I am paying all of it, not my employer, who is paying none of it - of the 400 different between 925 and 520, that is my tax savings. Ideally I'd pay 560 i.e the personal lease price and get tax savings to bring that to 350/400 a month or w/e but that isn't on offer.
Edited by Cascade360 on Monday 18th October 16:04
Cascade360 said:
Well it is a company car technically I suppose, but I don't get a car allowance nor do I get mileage as I don't do any business miles, so discussions around mileage rates and car allowances do not impact me. All I care about is whether it is cheaper than an equivalent personal lease - and it is. I agree it should be much cheaper...but sadly it isn't.
I don't follow the 5k pay rise point - of the 925, I am paying all of it, not my employer, who is paying none of it - of the 400 different between 925 and 520, that is my tax savings.
They're paying £925 to someone. I'd rather £400 more went in my gross pay packet than to a finance company personally.I don't follow the 5k pay rise point - of the 925, I am paying all of it, not my employer, who is paying none of it - of the 400 different between 925 and 520, that is my tax savings.
SWoll said:
They're paying £925 to someone. I'd rather £400 more went in my gross pay packet than to a finance company personally.
I'm not disputing the SS company are profiteering.All I care about is the Net cost to me, in this example of the Tesla it's not £925 but £642.29, which when you work out Insurance, tyres and some of the other SS benefits the savings for ME going for your lease over SS is probably nothing.
In terms of the cost breakdown. The £925 would be taken out of my gross salary - So the SS Company are getting that from me. But then I would save (20% tax payer) £111 on National Insurance and £185 on Tax. So the net SS cost is £642
SWoll said:
the examples I've provided also have no initial payment as they are 1 + 35 terms.
In the picture you posted above it shows 36 months and an initial payment, plus an admin fee.Edited by SDK on Monday 18th October 16:27
SDK said:
SWoll said:
They're paying £925 to someone. I'd rather £400 more went in my gross pay packet than to a finance company personally.
I'm not disputing the SS company are profiteering.All I care about is the Net cost to me, in this example of the Tesla it's not £925 but £642.29, which when you work out Insurance, tyres and some of the other SS benefits the savings for ME going for your lease over SS is probably nothing.
SWoll said:
Again, that wasn't my point. It may be an OK deal for you but without the SS company taking the piss it would be far better. The fact that you are happy to accept it just shows why it is so easy for them to get away with it?
Well yes I agreeThey have clearly priced the SS car in line with market lease costs, then used the government EV tax savings to add on their cut.
End of the day they are a business to make money and are using the current EV tax incentives to maximise their profit.
SWoll said:
As above. If there's BIK to consider it's a company car. You aren't signing the finance deal, your employer is.
Fair point, thanks.Edited by SWoll on Monday 18th October 15:57
I'm still presuming one gets to keep their car allowance if they opt into a SS arrangement. Otherwise, the point about just going which whichever is the cheapest (SS or personal lease) is indeed very relevant.
SDK said:
I'm not disputing the SS company are profiteering.
All I care about is the Net cost to me, in this example of the Tesla it's not £925 but £642.29, which when you work out Insurance, tyres and some of the other SS benefits the savings for ME going for your lease over SS is probably nothing.
In terms of the cost breakdown. The £925 would be taken out of my gross salary - So the SS Company are getting that from me. But then I would save (20% tax payer) £111 on National Insurance and £185 on Tax. So the net SS cost is £642
I understand how it works, but in reality you should be having more like £725 taken from your gross salary, not £925. The money still comes from your employer, it's a deduction like anything else that is made before you are paid you NET salary not a DD from your personal account. if you decide to change jobs it's the employer that is left carrying the can.All I care about is the Net cost to me, in this example of the Tesla it's not £925 but £642.29, which when you work out Insurance, tyres and some of the other SS benefits the savings for ME going for your lease over SS is probably nothing.
In terms of the cost breakdown. The £925 would be taken out of my gross salary - So the SS Company are getting that from me. But then I would save (20% tax payer) £111 on National Insurance and £185 on Tax. So the net SS cost is £642
Edited by SDK on Monday 18th October 16:21
SDK said:
SWoll said:
Again, that wasn't my point. It may be an OK deal for you but without the SS company taking the piss it would be far better. The fact that you are happy to accept it just shows why it is so easy for them to get away with it?
Well yes I agreeThey have clearly priced the SS car in line with market lease costs, then used the government EV tax savings to add on their cut.
End of the day they are a business to make money and are using the current EV tax incentives to maximise their profit.
Edited by SWoll on Monday 18th October 16:34
snorkel sucker said:
SWoll said:
As above. If there's BIK to consider it's a company car. You aren't signing the finance deal, your employer is.
Fair point, thanks.Edited by SWoll on Monday 18th October 15:57
I'm still presuming one gets to keep their car allowance if they opt into a SS arrangement. Otherwise, the point about just going which whichever is the cheapest (SS or personal lease) is indeed very relevant.
SWoll said:
if you decide to change jobs it's the employer that is left holding the can.
If I decide to change jobs then : If I leave within the first 6 months of the agreement, then I'm liable to pay the early termination fee.
After 6 months, there is protection in place, and the early termination (ET) fee is covered, but only if I resign or are made redundant. If an employee is dismissed, then they will be liable for the ET fee
SDK said:
SWoll said:
if you decide to change jobs it's the employer that is left holding the can.
If I decide to change jobs then : If I leave within the first 6 months of the agreement, then I'm liable to pay the early termination fee.
After 6 months, there is protection in place, and the early termination (ET) fee is covered, but only if I resign or are made redundant. If an employee is dismissed, then they will be liable for the ET fee
At £300+ a month more than a personal lease (with main and insurance) that's almost £12k over 3 years as insurance against them getting the car back early? On every car they supply..
Edited by SWoll on Monday 18th October 16:41
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