New addition to the forum?

[rscott]

JD said:

Mikehig said:

How does that work? Does it have its own natural gas reformer or electrolyser?!

https://www.itm-power.com/images/Products/HGas1SP.pdf

(Although this seems to have more capacity than the swindon one but the report I read may have been incorrect)

60kWh per kg of hydrogen.

375kWh for a full tank.

Or 5 fully charged Tesla’s

It’s not going to be the future of anything unless negative power pricing becomes a very very big thing.

So 375kWh per tank full and each pump needs a 20/30ft container for the production equipment.

Seems to me that it's less energy and space efficient than an EV charging point.

Installing these will need bigger electricity grid upgrades than putting in a rapid charger.

[LG9k]

rscott said:

So 375kWh per tank full and each pump needs a 20/30ft container for the production equipment.

Seems to me that it's less energy and space efficient than an EV charging point.

Installing these will need bigger electricity grid upgrades than putting in a rapid charger.

Presumably they refuel a car more quickly than an EV charging point, so probably more space/time efficient, if you see what I mean?

i.e. 1 charging bay that takes 3 minutes to fill each car equals 10 charging bays which take 30 minutes to fill each car.

[RobDickinson]

LG9k said:

Presumably they refuel a car more quickly than an EV charging point, so probably more space/time efficient, if you see what I mean?

i.e. 1 charging bay that takes 3 minutes to fill each car equals 10 charging bays which take 30 minutes to fill each car.

That is true but h2 filling can't work continuously, in cars a day term they are pretty poor, how poor depends on the specific type

[rscott]

LG9k said:

rscott said:

So 375kWh per tank full and each pump needs a 20/30ft container for the production equipment.

Seems to me that it's less energy and space efficient than an EV charging point.

Installing these will need bigger electricity grid upgrades than putting in a rapid charger.

Presumably they refuel a car more quickly than an EV charging point, so probably more space/time efficient, if you see what I mean?

i.e. 1 charging bay that takes 3 minutes to fill each car equals 10 charging bays which take 30 minutes to fill each car.

Except the system mentioned takes 90 minutes to produce enough hydrogen to fill one vehicle..

[LG9k]

rscott said:

Except the system mentioned takes 90 minutes to produce enough hydrogen to fill one vehicle..

I guess they don't exactly need to rush given miniscule numbers of hydrogen fuelled vehicles on the road at present.

I imagine they could be scaled up if and when demand arises (a big if), which is similar to what's happened with EV charging points.

[rscott]

LG9k said:

rscott said:

Except the system mentioned takes 90 minutes to produce enough hydrogen to fill one vehicle..

I guess they don't exactly need to rush given miniscule numbers of hydrogen fuelled vehicles on the road at present.

I imagine they could be scaled up if and when demand arises (a big if), which is similar to what's happened with EV charging points.

Scaling up production would require massive amounts of power though - far more than EV charging would.
Whether the grid could cope with that is probably the biggest issue.

[LG9k]

rscott said:

Scaling up production would require massive amounts of power though - far more than EV charging would.
Whether the grid could cope with that is probably the biggest issue.

Isn't that what the EV deniers (wrongly) said about the capacity of the grid?

[rscott]

LG9k said:

rscott said:

Scaling up production would require massive amounts of power though - far more than EV charging would.
Whether the grid could cope with that is probably the biggest issue.

Isn't that what the EV deniers (wrongly) said about the capacity of the grid?

National Grid have confirmed the grid can just about cope with predicted EV take-up, but this hydrogen processing equipment would place considerably more load on it. So not sure if it would cope or not..

[RobDickinson]

Fully charges had a national grid spokesperson on recently, grid down 16% from peak, switch to bev would put it up 10-11% so no problem.

H2 I guess 3-4 times that.

[Terminator X]

LG9k said:

Isn't that what the EV deniers (wrongly) said about the capacity of the grid?

Hardly anyone buys EV at the moment, you won't actually know that for some time yet eg when 80% of people have EV's.

TX.

[LG9k]

Terminator X said:

Hardly anyone buys EV at the moment, you won't actually know that for some time yet eg when 80% of people have EV's.

TX.

See two posts up.

[Terminator X]

LG9k said:

Terminator X said:

Hardly anyone buys EV at the moment, you won't actually know that for some time yet eg when 80% of people have EV's.

TX.

See two posts up.

As I say you won't actually know until EV demand picks up. NG are predicting that it should be ok. The chap interviewed also has his crystal ball out:

"However, where there could be a problem is with the need to smooth out the peaks and troughs of energy demand: “What I think we’ll see with EV charging at forecourts is that retailers are likely to have battery storage with the EV chargers, so they’ll top up the battery when the energy is cheap and the grid is not stressed; and then if someone is charging their car at peak time - adding to the grid and the cost of energy - they’ll be charging from the battery.

“I suspect what you will see is some very smart solutions, which is why the grid can cope.”"

TX.

[rscott]

Terminator X said:

LG9k said:

Terminator X said:

Hardly anyone buys EV at the moment, you won't actually know that for some time yet eg when 80% of people have EV's.

TX.

See two posts up.

As I say you won't actually know until EV demand picks up. NG are predicting that it should be ok. The chap interviewed also has his crystal ball out:

"However, where there could be a problem is with the need to smooth out the peaks and troughs of energy demand: “What I think we’ll see with EV charging at forecourts is that retailers are likely to have battery storage with the EV chargers, so they’ll top up the battery when the energy is cheap and the grid is not stressed; and then if someone is charging their car at peak time - adding to the grid and the cost of energy - they’ll be charging from the battery.

“I suspect what you will see is some very smart solutions, which is why the grid can cope.”"

TX.

Systems like this https://ww.electrek.co/2019/07/18/tesla-v3-superch... - with solar and battery, perhaps..n

[jjwilde]

Not refining oil will save/free up loads of grid capacity surely?

[RobDickinson]

NG spokesperson - "no problem..."
Terminator X - "No yuo wrongs I knows bestest!!"


sigh

[Terminator X]

RobDickinson said:

NG spokesperson - "no problem..."
Terminator X - "No yuo wrongs I knows bestest!!"


sigh

Lol no acknowledgement that the guy has his crystal ball out with his "prediction".

One for the "EVs are the future" crackheads:

https://thisblowsmymind.com/audi-have-created-dies...

TX.

[jjwilde]

Terminator X said:

Lol no acknowledgement that the guy has his crystal ball out with his "prediction".

One for the "EVs are the future" crackheads:

https://thisblowsmymind.com/audi-have-created-dies...

TX.

It appears to just be an enormous waste of energy. Why not just put that energy straight in to a battery? It looks worse than hydrogen.

[Richard-D]

Hydrogen production makes sense at locations that have wind farms. Hydrogen produced on windy days at times of low grid demand. It's fantastic if employed cleverly, inefficient and polluting if using energy produced in fossil fuel power stations. Don't get hung up on thinking there has to be a single solution.

[RobDickinson]

Richard-D said:

Hydrogen production makes sense at locations that have wind farms. Hydrogen produced on windy days at times of low grid demand. It's fantastic if employed cleverly, inefficient and polluting if using energy produced in fossil fuel power stations. Don't get hung up on thinking there has to be a single solution.

Its certainly one option for excess renewable power, its still incredibly inefficient though, turning power into hydrogen and back.

I've a feeling (cant be bothered looking) that many of the other short term options are far better. Long term perhaps not but we are not storing renewables long term, it only needs a bunch of hours.

[Richard-D]

Your response is typical of what I would expect. Doesn't know, doesn't consider, can't be bothered, closed mind. Standard for people who can't or won't see past EVs being a single solution so dismisses everything else instantly without thought.