The future......now
Discussion
Phil. said:
Fastlane said:
EVs are still really targeting the middle class, many of whom already drive expensive runabouts, especially SUVs, to do lots of local journeys and occasional longer trips. SUVs and luxury cars are expensive to buy and run, depreciate heavily and are not in any way environmentally friendly. For those with off street parking, an EV (especially a Tesla with its superchargers and destination chargers) isn't that much of a stretch/compromise in comparison. More people are considering EVs, but unless you are prepared to do your homework to work out if it will work for you, the majority of people will stick to what they know, an ICE vehicle.
As has been said on this forum many times, driving a car isn't environmentally friendly in the first place, so an EV is still a compromise...
I fit the target market for an EV but having done my research I still find them too much of a compromise in terms of cost to buy when comparing their overall capability with the competitors. Range is the main issue. If I could reliably have 350 miles in any weather driving at normal motorway speeds without having to worry about having the aircon or heater on etc. I’d buy one tomorrow. Does such an EV exist yet? As has been said on this forum many times, driving a car isn't environmentally friendly in the first place, so an EV is still a compromise...
Which suits me fine personally, but if I did longer trips I wouldn't have made the switch yet
Phil. said:
I fit the target market for an EV but having done my research I still find them too much of a compromise in terms of cost to buy when comparing their overall capability with the competitors. Range is the main issue. If I could reliably have 350 miles in any weather driving at normal motorway speeds without having to worry about having the aircon or heater on etc. I’d buy one tomorrow. Does such an EV exist yet?
I would say that if those are your criteria then you are not the target demographic. We bought an i3 for a 60 mile per day school run and occasional trips in to town for lunch etc. There is no way I would consider one if the mission profile required long motorway runs. For us as a second car it makes perfect sense.Phil. said:
I fit the target market for an EV but having done my research I still find them too much of a compromise in terms of cost to buy when comparing their overall capability with the competitors. Range is the main issue. If I could reliably have 350 miles in any weather driving at normal motorway speeds without having to worry about having the aircon or heater on etc. I’d buy one tomorrow. Does such an EV exist yet?
I assume you're doing one way 350 mile non-stop journeys frequently enough to make it worthwhile carrying the heavy battery pack around the rest of the time? 
Despite the continuous improvements EVs will always have their flaws, and sometimes will require a compromise on long journeys for example, however I think its important to be realistic about your requirements for edge cases. For the vast majority of the time for the vast majority of people, EVs are no compromise and have some really worthwhile benefits.
Phil. said:
Eh, EV drivers on here never have that problem. Just charge up at home FFS 
TX.
Phil. said:
I fit the target market for an EV but having done my research I still find them too much of a compromise in terms of cost to buy when comparing their overall capability with the competitors. Range is the main issue. If I could reliably have 350 miles in any weather driving at normal motorway speeds without having to worry about having the aircon or heater on etc. I’d buy one tomorrow. Does such an EV exist yet?
nope, not yetbut then only 1% of the population drive 350 miles a day so they are not going to target a niche group
jamoor said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
nope, not yet
but then only 1% of the population drive 350 miles a day so they are not going to target a niche group
And do that non stop which makes it an even smaller group.but then only 1% of the population drive 350 miles a day so they are not going to target a niche group
Phil. said:
I fit the target market for an EV but having done my research I still find them too much of a compromise in terms of cost to buy when comparing their overall capability with the competitors. Range is the main issue. If I could reliably have 350 miles in any weather driving at normal motorway speeds without having to worry about having the aircon or heater on etc. I’d buy one tomorrow. Does such an EV exist yet?
No, however, I collected my Model 3 Performance from Tesla West Drayton this last Tuesday afternoon and drove it home to Truro, leaving at 16:30. I left West Drayton on the busy M4 with 98% charge and the sat. nav. told me I needed to stop once at Gordano services to supercharge. I supercharged it for 25 minutes at Gordano while I had some food, and it got me home leaving 10% charge on arrival at 21:50. It was around 3 degrees all the way and I had the climate set to 20 degrees. Total distance traveled 277 miles, total travel time 5 hours 20 minutes including the 25 minute supercharge stop and a very quick pee stop (so 4 hours 55 minutes without the stop). Google maps reckon it would take from 4 hours 50 minutes up to 5 hours 30 minutes for the same journey at the same time, so I think that demonstrates that I wasn't driving like Miss Daisy. Interestingly, I usually feel pretty tired the following day after a long drive like that (I am 50!) but I felt unusually fresh.
Coming back to the original post about the queue at one supercharger, does anyone know if this was an isolated case for some reason?
It's my understanding that these cars have some clever tech which warns when chargers are busy so the driver can divert to somewhere quieter. So does this mean that all of the chargers in the area were similarly overloaded?
It's my understanding that these cars have some clever tech which warns when chargers are busy so the driver can divert to somewhere quieter. So does this mean that all of the chargers in the area were similarly overloaded?
Fastlane said:
Phil. said:
I fit the target market for an EV but having done my research I still find them too much of a compromise in terms of cost to buy when comparing their overall capability with the competitors. Range is the main issue. If I could reliably have 350 miles in any weather driving at normal motorway speeds without having to worry about having the aircon or heater on etc. I’d buy one tomorrow. Does such an EV exist yet?
No, however, I collected my Model 3 Performance from Tesla West Drayton this last Tuesday afternoon and drove it home to Truro, leaving at 16:30. I left West Drayton on the busy M4 with 98% charge and the sat. nav. told me I needed to stop once at Gordano services to supercharge. I supercharged it for 25 minutes at Gordano while I had some food, and it got me home leaving 10% charge on arrival at 21:50. It was around 3 degrees all the way and I had the climate set to 20 degrees. Total distance traveled 277 miles, total travel time 5 hours 20 minutes including the 25 minute supercharge stop and a very quick pee stop (so 4 hours 55 minutes without the stop). Google maps reckon it would take from 4 hours 50 minutes up to 5 hours 30 minutes for the same journey at the same time, so I think that demonstrates that I wasn't driving like Miss Daisy. Interestingly, I usually feel pretty tired the following day after a long drive like that (I am 50!) but I felt unusually fresh.
Who’d have thought it..............
Mikehig said:
Coming back to the original post about the queue at one supercharger, does anyone know if this was an isolated case for some reason?
It's my understanding that these cars have some clever tech which warns when chargers are busy so the driver can divert to somewhere quieter. So does this mean that all of the chargers in the area were similarly overloaded?
Yeah it was unusual which is why it made the news. Tesla will just expand the site. The people running the services there must be very pleased with presumably endless customers with 20mins to spare.It's my understanding that these cars have some clever tech which warns when chargers are busy so the driver can divert to somewhere quieter. So does this mean that all of the chargers in the area were similarly overloaded?
Edited by jjwilde on Thursday 5th December 18:55
Mikehig said:
Coming back to the original post about the queue at one supercharger, does anyone know if this was an isolated case for some reason?
It's my understanding that these cars have some clever tech which warns when chargers are busy so the driver can divert to somewhere quieter. So does this mean that all of the chargers in the area were similarly overloaded?
It was Thanks Giving traffic, busiest day in US for people to travel. There was multiple similar queues at other US SC.It's my understanding that these cars have some clever tech which warns when chargers are busy so the driver can divert to somewhere quieter. So does this mean that all of the chargers in the area were similarly overloaded?
The inherent problem of EVs is even 'rapid' charging takes time. All of us are use to seeing queues at petrol stations, bare in mind EVs take 20-30 minutes to charge versus 5 minutes, the huge number of petrol stations around versus EV rapid chargers you can see how this happened.
As EV numbers grow the number of Rapid chargers around just isnt enough to keep up with demand. Tesla confound the problem by having 'free' Supercharging and everyone goes nuts when things are 'free'.
Here in the UK things aren't that bad but queues are starting to appear, and with more Model 3s on the roads everyday, no real expansion of Tesla SC net work things getting worse not better for long distance EV travelling.
Mikehig said:
Coming back to the original post about the queue at one supercharger, does anyone know if this was an isolated case for some reason?
It's my understanding that these cars have some clever tech which warns when chargers are busy so the driver can divert to somewhere quieter. So does this mean that all of the chargers in the area were similarly overloaded?
Day after thanksgiving so huge travel day, at the “nicest” (lots of stalls, lounge and other facilities, hence preferred for many) supercharger location that is almost equidistant between SF and LA. It’s off the I5 freeway so that’s traffic for both directions. Those cities are far enough apart that you can’t make it without charging so if you topped up earlier you may have to make another stop later on. It's my understanding that these cars have some clever tech which warns when chargers are busy so the driver can divert to somewhere quieter. So does this mean that all of the chargers in the area were similarly overloaded?
Tesla drivers largely take for granted that superchargers will be available so many don’t really plan alternatives. Not that there are many on or near the I5 anyway - it’s whether you push on to the next (much smaller) supercharger site. Or just wait and watch some Netflix on your huge dashboard screen for a bit till a stall opens up. Alternative routes to the I5 would add at least as long as any wait time.
jjwilde said:
Yeah it was unusual which is why it made the news. Tesla will just expand the site.
It was much more widespread in CA from what I saw on Twitter. Early adopters are probably going to go through some serious pain for a year or two, once the growth curve of EVs properly takes off. At the moment I'm assuming they are in fact the future, mainly for political reasons.I really want an EV. I love ICE cars, but I don't want my son breathing this London air and I hope to see things change.
But unless I can get from London to Manchester on a single charge, in winter, with all the electrics on, with tons of range to spare, I'll never be in the EV market. I dread to think what would happen if I got stuck with the family in a two-hour tailback on the M6, in the depths of January.
Does anyone know if a step-change in viable, affordable battery tech is really in the offing? The stories that filter my way seem to always entail some kind of clever conditioning or mitigation strategy, that deliver marginal improvements.
I'm somewhat concerned the restrictions on ICE cars will precede the proper viability of EVs, without massive regressions in the motoring experience. Specifically, I'm worried I'll drop a ton of money on an ICE, shortly before a London mayor decides to ban them entirely, or something.
Government would do far better mandating EVs for taxis, commercial vehicles and public transport, where charging patterns are more predictable. And they're the biggest polluters anyway.
Fastlane said:
Phil. said:
I fit the target market for an EV but having done my research I still find them too much of a compromise in terms of cost to buy when comparing their overall capability with the competitors. Range is the main issue. If I could reliably have 350 miles in any weather driving at normal motorway speeds without having to worry about having the aircon or heater on etc. I’d buy one tomorrow. Does such an EV exist yet?
No, however, I collected my Model 3 Performance from Tesla West Drayton this last Tuesday afternoon and drove it home to Truro, leaving at 16:30. I left West Drayton on the busy M4 with 98% charge and the sat. nav. told me I needed to stop once at Gordano services to supercharge. I supercharged it for 25 minutes at Gordano while I had some food, and it got me home leaving 10% charge on arrival at 21:50. It was around 3 degrees all the way and I had the climate set to 20 degrees. Total distance traveled 277 miles, total travel time 5 hours 20 minutes including the 25 minute supercharge stop and a very quick pee stop (so 4 hours 55 minutes without the stop). Google maps reckon it would take from 4 hours 50 minutes up to 5 hours 30 minutes for the same journey at the same time, so I think that demonstrates that I wasn't driving like Miss Daisy. Interestingly, I usually feel pretty tired the following day after a long drive like that (I am 50!) but I felt unusually fresh.
Autopilot type features relieve the driver of alot of work and contribute to alot of safety.
jamoor said:
Was the car doing the driving?
Autopilot type features relieve the driver of alot of work and contribute to alot of safety.
I see a Tesla on the motorway, I try to keep clear. Search #slaughterpilot on Twitter. Some of the drivers' asinine behaviour and overconfidence in a glorified ACC system is shocking.Autopilot type features relieve the driver of alot of work and contribute to alot of safety.
Edited by Rathbone on Thursday 5th December 19:38
Rathbone said:
jamoor said:
Was the car doing the driving?
Autopilot type features relieve the driver of alot of work and contribute to alot of safety.
I see a Tesla on the motorway, I try to keep clear. Search #slaughterpilot on Twitter. Some of the asinine behaviour and over confidence in a glorified ACC system, is shocking.Autopilot type features relieve the driver of alot of work and contribute to alot of safety.
jamoor said:
I've never had a problem, although I've only driven it around 1,000 miles.
Referring to the drivers, rather than the cars.But part of the issue is the way Tesla market the system. It meets the definition of Predictable Abuse in the US, and I expect legal ramifications somewhere down the line. At the moment Tesla's stock price and reputation are too important to preserve, so the NHTSA are taking a hands-off approach. I don't think that will always be the case, for various reasons.
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