The future......now
Discussion
From the article
''Musk’s unrealistic timeframes appear to be contributing to some turmoil in the company’s self-driving unit. Musk is “upset that some team members have told him they can’t meet the timelines he has set for developing the technology,” according to The Information’s Amir Efrati.''
''Musk’s unrealistic timeframes appear to be contributing to some turmoil in the company’s self-driving unit. Musk is “upset that some team members have told him they can’t meet the timelines he has set for developing the technology,” according to The Information’s Amir Efrati.''
MOBB said:
Phil. said:
Fastlane said:
EVs are still really targeting the middle class, many of whom already drive expensive runabouts, especially SUVs, to do lots of local journeys and occasional longer trips. SUVs and luxury cars are expensive to buy and run, depreciate heavily and are not in any way environmentally friendly. For those with off street parking, an EV (especially a Tesla with its superchargers and destination chargers) isn't that much of a stretch/compromise in comparison. More people are considering EVs, but unless you are prepared to do your homework to work out if it will work for you, the majority of people will stick to what they know, an ICE vehicle.
As has been said on this forum many times, driving a car isn't environmentally friendly in the first place, so an EV is still a compromise...
I fit the target market for an EV but having done my research I still find them too much of a compromise in terms of cost to buy when comparing their overall capability with the competitors. Range is the main issue. If I could reliably have 350 miles in any weather driving at normal motorway speeds without having to worry about having the aircon or heater on etc. I’d buy one tomorrow. Does such an EV exist yet? As has been said on this forum many times, driving a car isn't environmentally friendly in the first place, so an EV is still a compromise...
Which suits me fine personally, but if I did longer trips I wouldn't have made the switch yet
I happened to drive 430 ish miles yesterday in 10 hours with 3 short stops and one longer stop. All of the stops were nowhere near an EV charger. This is something I need to do several times a year and have a comfortable vehicle to do so. Locally I drive a 1.0 litre 3 cylinder eco boost Fiesta with 100 BHP and it does 50+ mpg. It cost less than £10k to buy 4 years ago second hand, the tax is zero and it costs £200 per year to service. I can’t find an economic case to swap it for an EV to do the same.
We'll see, they have ~200 Ai/neural net people working now and bought a company for optimization just a month or so ago.
They've finished the design of their AP3 cpu and its been in cars since abut April and are now retrofitting.
IMO its a pretty open game for who gets a functioning self drive out first
They've finished the design of their AP3 cpu and its been in cars since abut April and are now retrofitting.
IMO its a pretty open game for who gets a functioning self drive out first
You are dead wrong. Severel recent tests have shown Tesla's autopilot to be market leading.
Recent ncap euro safety tests (which is the big one) awarded autopilot their highest ever score for driver assist. In 2019, they said Tesla was the 'stand out performer'. Autopilot highway received a perfect score.
Video here of some city safety stuff too.
https://electrek.co/2019/12/04/tesla-autopilot-saf...
Waymo etc use 3d maps and preplanned routes, it's difficult to compare. but every single test recently on road cars you can actually buy, has shown Tesla number one on a production car.
Yes better than mobil eye etc.
That grapy upthread is years old and features companies that have driven zero miles. Ford I think had a fleet of 6 test cars when that graph came out....
Recent ncap euro safety tests (which is the big one) awarded autopilot their highest ever score for driver assist. In 2019, they said Tesla was the 'stand out performer'. Autopilot highway received a perfect score.
Video here of some city safety stuff too.
https://electrek.co/2019/12/04/tesla-autopilot-saf...
Waymo etc use 3d maps and preplanned routes, it's difficult to compare. but every single test recently on road cars you can actually buy, has shown Tesla number one on a production car.
Yes better than mobil eye etc.
That grapy upthread is years old and features companies that have driven zero miles. Ford I think had a fleet of 6 test cars when that graph came out....
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 5th December 23:42
Phil. said:
. Locally I drive a 1.0 litre 3 cylinder eco boost Fiesta with 100 BHP and it does 50+ mpg. It cost less than £10k to buy 4 years ago second hand, the tax is zero and it costs £200 per year to service. I can’t find an economic case to swap it for an EV to do the same.
Locally I drive a Nissan Leaf. It cost less than 9k second hand two years ago. Tax is free. Servicing is free. ‘Fuel’ is as close to free as makes no difference.It’s cheaper to own than the £300 snotter it replaced.
RobDickinson said:
leaf, zoe and i3 have increased in used value over the last year I think in UK?
Pretty much. I suspect very much it’s the cheapest car I’ve ever owned. I mean, it’s a dull hatchback with almost no redeeming features other than “really cheap”. But my commute has almost no redeeming features this time of year either.
Sambucket said:
You are dead wrong. Severel recent tests have shown Tesla's autopilot to be market leading.
I didnt write the article it was Forbes so cannot be 'wrong', Ive never heard anyone say they are unreliable source. The Graph is this year, so i guess you are disagreeing with a buiness publication and an indutry leading research company, with deep insights in the automotive industry. It describes the detail of the graph, and most of the leaders are expected to go public next year.Thesprucegoose said:
I didnt write the article it was Forbes so cannot be 'wrong', Ive never heard anyone say they are unreliable source. The Graph is this year, so i guess you are disagreeing with a buiness publication and an indutry leading research company, with deep insights in the automotive industry. It describes the detail of the graph, and most of the leaders are expected to go public next year.
By same logic, NCAP is backed by several European governments, as well as by the European Union. So 'cannot be wrong'. They actually tested 100s of cars. It's a different approach but the forbes linked report was written in an office and scores on stuff like 'has shown a plan to deploy level 4'. Which has value but it's apples to oranges. Tiny volumes of test cars loaded with costly kit.
I'll reserve judgement on the leaders going public next year.
But in mean time, I haven't seen recent evidence to counter NCAP's findings, so no reason to not believe Tesla has the current market leading, existing product. I haven't seen any recent tests that place anyone other systems such as mobileye higher. But would be keen to see any.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 6th December 00:58
they are different. As you said NCAP rated it as a driver assit. The article is to do with Automounous driving Tesla has the jump due to users on the road, but Navigant Research looks at the whole picture. Tesla has boots on the ground, but 2020 is surely going to decide it's future.
Hi, I own a Nissan Leaf. I bought it used , it is a 24kw battety and had done 21000 miles . I paid £10500 at a Nissan dealer. 0% interest 2 free services and an extra 12 months warranty. It now has 48000 miles on the clock and still shows a full battery on the dash display. I travel.50 miles most days. I have other cars at my disposal should I need to travel further. I love driving it in town (Birmingham) no turbo lag no hole in power delivery, no lag or clutch take up. It is not the only car you will ever need, it is however in a multi car household a car that can fulfill a role. The running costs are miniscule, however I can say that were the costs similar to ice I would still own one as for inner city driving it is unbeatable. I await contradiction by those with no first hand experience.
Thesprucegoose said:
I didnt write the article it was Forbes so cannot be 'wrong', Ive never heard anyone say they are unreliable source. The Graph is this year, so i guess you are disagreeing with a buiness publication and an indutry leading research company, with deep insights in the automotive industry. It describes the detail of the graph, and most of the leaders are expected to go public next year.
It's all well and good posting pretty pictures, but where's the data?Ah, it's behind a very expensive paywall.
https://www.navigantresearch.com/reports/navigant-...
I can get the crayons out and draw a different picture if you want?
Autopilot safety stats have been debunked many many times, it’s not worth even going into again as the blind faithful will ignore.
The passive safety is a different matter but that’s a very different thing
As for supercharger capacity, again I love the blind faith that Tesla will just expand the site. How often? How big? There are already pinch points in the uk, the one near Sheffield, a few around London, now the 16 bay site in oxford is closed Warwick and Heathrow will be under increased pressure. Tesla will double the number of cars in the uk this year but are adding maybe 5% extra capacity, by the end of next year they’ll probably have doubled again, how much extra capacity do you think they will have added?
The passive safety is a different matter but that’s a very different thing
As for supercharger capacity, again I love the blind faith that Tesla will just expand the site. How often? How big? There are already pinch points in the uk, the one near Sheffield, a few around London, now the 16 bay site in oxford is closed Warwick and Heathrow will be under increased pressure. Tesla will double the number of cars in the uk this year but are adding maybe 5% extra capacity, by the end of next year they’ll probably have doubled again, how much extra capacity do you think they will have added?
Heres Johnny said:
Tesla will double the number of cars in the uk this year but are adding maybe 5% extra capacity, by the end of next year they’ll probably have doubled again, how much extra capacity do you think they will have added?
Tesla doesn't help by effectively offering 'free' Supercharging on every car sold. Ionity are clearly thinking ahead and will soon update their pricing model to reflect the true cost of 350KW charging, whilst Tesla have to not only pay to support/build new SC sites but have zero revenue coming from the them.I use to avoid long distance out of range travel in our Leaf because Rapid Charging on Ecotricity was such a pain, if queues become a regular occurrence at Tesla Superchargers am ditching the Tesla for any kind of long distance travel, life really is too short to waste sitting in a queue when you have other options.
It seems like the 'golden' period of EVs may already have gone, reducing government incentives, lack of infrastructure, still high prices on the cars, are EVs the 3D TVs in the making, we'll have to wait and see
.Heres Johnny said:
Autopilot safety stats have been debunked many many times, it’s not worth even going into again as the blind faithful will ignore.
Its funny, despite being 'debunked' no one is actually arguing with the figure or providing comparable numbers from competing companies....Still waiting for you to 'prove' teslas are getting stolen and shipped to eastern Europe like you've repated multiple times with no evidence..
Edited by RobDickinson on Friday 6th December 07:43
RobDickinson said:
Heres Johnny said:
Autopilot safety stats have been debunked many many times, it’s not worth even going into again as the blind faithful will ignore.
Its funny, despite being 'debunked' no one is actually arguing with the figure or providing comparable numbers from competing companies....Still waiting for you to 'prove' teslas are getting stolen and shipped to eastern Europe like you've repated multiple times with no evidence..
Edited by RobDickinson on Friday 6th December 07:43
But have some anecdotal evidence (read past the first sentence)
https://electrek.co/2018/07/31/tesla-theft-tips-he...
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