Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

[phil4]

Witchfinder said:

Who thinks proprietary, manufacturer specific charging is a good idea? Sure, it has helped launch Tesla at a time when nobody else was picking up the gauntlet. Now, however, it merely complicates public charging and adoption of standards.

While it might not be good, do you not think everyone else has already managed to "complicate public charging and adoption of standards"? Is there one connector used? One type of charger they all use? One account needed for all charging? Nope... they completely stuff it up by themselves.

This could have been a straightforward USB vs Lightening connector problem.... but no, the other manufacturers didn't create something like USB... no they each chose their own, and each charging provider did the same.

Edited by phil4 on Wednesday 15th July 15:28

[Witchfinder]

phil4 said:

While it might not be good, do you not think everyone else has already managed to "complicate public charging and adoption of standards"? Is there one connector used? One type of charger they all use? One account needed for all charging? Nope... they completely stuff it up by themselves.

You wouldn't want the car manufacturers driving a standard, that's precisely what has gone wrong with Tesla here!

[Kolbenkopp]

RobDickinson said:

And frankly autobahn is fked they'll have to change that

Just for a bit of context, "Autopilot" in colloquial German is used as an expression / idiom for things that really work automatically. The body that sued Tesla is non profit with the mission to combat unfair competition. They deal with cases such as misleading advertising of products or company T&Cs unfairly disadvantaging consumers. They now managed to convince the court in Munich that naming the driver assist system "Autopilot" is, at this stage, misleading advertising.

That's all there is to it. I tend to agree, due to how the word "Autopilot" is used over here.

[Kolbenkopp]

ZesPak said:

One of the things that proper legislation might clear up is real-time charger availability like Tesla has.
A singular API for that is a pipe dream, but it would be great imho.

Great point that. And technically not that big a challenge I'd think. Just needs the political will to push it through. I'm pretty sure it will happen, but as anything EU it takes a while. Probably be done when everybody moves from BEVs to cold fusion .

Edit: we at least did end up with a common charge plug. That happened fairly quickly at least...

[jamoor]

Witchfinder said:

You wouldn't want the car manufacturers driving a standard, that's precisely what has gone wrong with Tesla here!

The IT industry managed to standardise things ok.

Think ATX, SATA, USB

[Cheeses of Nazareth]

Some Gump said:

dukeboy749r said:

Interesting take on Tesla; in Germany...

https://futurism.com/the-byte/german-court-teslas-...

I'm amazed it took this long.
"Autopilot" that isn't.
"Full self drive" that can't.
"This car will generate income as a robotaxi in the future" that probably won't.


Misselling is a thing. Given that the class action wolves are currently bombarding me with ads for "emmissions cheat" scenarios from VAG, Merc, Nissan and Renault - if this ever gets going it'll be crippling.

It's a shame, because to be fair on em, Tesla appear to have one of the most advanced driver assist systems out there.

This is where the 'Autonomy' thing falls apart, its not enough to be 'almost there' .. because the litigation mad US will class action the thing out of existence,, its beyond insurance. The fact its a stupid idea is irrrelevant.

[Tuna]

jamoor said:

The IT industry managed to standardise things ok.

Think ATX, SATA, USB

Think Bluetooth. A mess.

[CheesecakeRunner]

jamoor said:

The IT industry managed to standardise things ok.

Think ATX, SATA, USB

You’re joking right? Have you seen how many USB connector types there are?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Connect...

[NDNDNDND]

hyphen said:

German subsidies for EV can cover the full cost of a Zoe!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-15...

I saw that too - quite extraordinary. It seems the general public will happily convert to electric if you give them away for free!

However, isn't it worse in terms of CO2 emissions in Germany to drive an electric car than run a diesel?

[ZesPak]

NDNDNDND said:

I saw that too - quite extraordinary. It seems the general public will happily convert to electric if you give them away for free!

However, isn't it worse in terms of CO2 emissions in Germany to drive an electric car than run a diesel?

Considering they're still using lignite to make a lot of electricity, that might not be far off. But at least it's moving forward. It cleans up the cities, and it's not hard to burn something that's cleaner than whatever Lewis & Clark dug up.

Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 16th July 09:48

[hyphen]

NDNDNDND said:

I saw that too - quite extraordinary. It seems the general public will happily convert to electric if you give them away for free!

However, isn't it worse in terms of CO2 emissions in Germany to drive an electric car than run a diesel?

They will convert to anything if they get paid. Offer £100 to attend Church on Sunday's and suddenly everyone's a believer!

[Witchfinder]

NDNDNDND said:

However, isn't it worse in terms of CO2 emissions in Germany to drive an electric car than run a diesel?

No...
https://youtu.be/O1MeR6vOcv0

[jjwilde]

NDNDNDND said:

I saw that too - quite extraordinary. It seems the general public will happily convert to electric if you give them away for free!

However, isn't it worse in terms of CO2 emissions in Germany to drive an electric car than run a diesel?

Wasn't this discredited?

[coetzeeh]

130 workers test positive for Covid19 at Fremont plant

https://patch.com/california/fremont/more-130-tesl...

Tesla to shut down Fremont plant end Jul for upgrades.

https://www.benzinga.com/news/20/07/16638779/tesla...

[Cheeses of Nazareth]

NDNDNDND said:

I saw that too - quite extraordinary. It seems the general public will happily convert to electric if you give them away for free!

However, isn't it worse in terms of CO2 emissions in Germany to drive an electric car than run a diesel?

Still too dear..

[Kolbenkopp]

ZesPak said:

Considering they're still using lignite to make a lot of electricity, that might not be far off. But at least it's moving forward. It cleans up the cities, and it's not hard to burn something that's cleaner than whatever Lewis & Clark dug up.

Yup, pretty strange mix we have. Coal being very gradually phased out, but also >50% renewable + nuclear last year on average. Realpolitik...

[Kolbenkopp]

Cheeses of Nazareth said:

NDNDNDND said:

I saw that too - quite extraordinary. It seems the general public will happily convert to electric if you give them away for free!

However, isn't it worse in terms of CO2 emissions in Germany to drive an electric car than run a diesel?

Still too dear..

I haven't checked the specific deals, but on the Zoe I bet this is a headline figure for a car with battery rental. Not really "free". But certainly not expensive. If you look at "batteries included" cars, the VAG electric triplets are all around €10k street price after subsidies.

[RobDickinson]

Stock upo to $1640ish and more in after hours..

Also interesting data point on H1/20 US car sales. Tesla is the only manufacturer to grow (despite covid19), and there are likely best part of ~2 million cars sat around unsold..

Edited by RobDickinson on Tuesday 21st July 08:02

[jamoor]

jjwilde said:

NDNDNDND said:

I saw that too - quite extraordinary. It seems the general public will happily convert to electric if you give them away for free!

However, isn't it worse in terms of CO2 emissions in Germany to drive an electric car than run a diesel?

Wasn't this discredited?

Yep it’s all nonsense spread most likely by people who have an interest in making sure you drive an ice

Even Harry’s garage made a video which is absolute nonsense and so easily disproved its painful to watch

[Evanivitch]

CheesecakeRunner said:

jamoor said:

The IT industry managed to standardise things ok.

Think ATX, SATA, USB

You’re joking right? Have you seen how many USB connector types there are?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Connect...

Or look how many video display connectors there are...

Phones kind of got there, but that's only because most phones are replaced every 2 years or so.