Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)
Discussion
hyphen said:
SWoll said:
a lot of the stuff you've been posting has been shown to be embarrassingly inaccurate
I earlier said the manufacturer stated 0-60 time. You stated it was wrong, and when i asked why, you said because some random Youtube channel told you so. 
The constant cherry picking of things to suit your narrative is getting very old.
SWoll said:
So someone actually tests the car, gets a different result and you dismiss it? Funny how you're not so quick to dismiss tests that show the range is lower than the manufacturers claims though?
The constant cherry picking of things to suit your narrative is getting very old.
Ok, so the conversation was about an upgrade to the 0-60 times.The constant cherry picking of things to suit your narrative is getting very old.
If this independent test is correct, then it means that the other model 3 version will have the same discrepancy. Correct?
So there is no point to be made. The difference between the two times wil remain that same as the error factor is probably the same.
Lastly, if the model 3 is indeed faster than the manufacturers 0-60 times. Why on earth would Tesla publish a lower figure? It just makes the car even more impressive to the buyer.
What have Tesla got to gain by under reporting their performance?
hyphen said:
SWoll said:
So someone actually tests the car, gets a different result and you dismiss it? Funny how you're not so quick to dismiss tests that show the range is lower than the manufacturers claims though?
The constant cherry picking of things to suit your narrative is getting very old.
Ok, so the conversation was about an upgrade to the 0-60 times.The constant cherry picking of things to suit your narrative is getting very old.
If this independent test is correct, then it means that the other model 3 version will have the same discrepancy. Correct?
So there is no point to be made. The difference between the two times wil remain that same as the error factor is probably the same.
Lastly, if the model 3 is indeed faster than the manufacturers 0-60 times. Why on earth would Tesla publish a lower figure? It just makes the car even more impressive to the buyer.
What have Tesla got to gain by under reporting their performance?
3.4 was the original 0-60 for the M3P before multiple upgrades via OTA. I imagine they need to keep that in case people have chosen not to accept the updates but either way they wouldn't be the first manufacturer to under report 0-60 times. Audi/BMW regularly do it with their high end models like the RS4/M5 etc.
Sambucket said:
Don't really care if VAG sell 8m cars or 10m cars. Doesn't seem that relevant to the Tesla story.
From a Tesla point of view I'd say the number VAG or other manufacturer sell is less important than what that number is made up of.With the huge head start Tesla garnered in pushing pure EV wholesale long before the other manufacturers, when the majority of the consumer base think "electric" Tesla rightly or wrongly is the name that springs to mind. Especially as even those unfamiliar with the industry have heard that you get supercar performance for (premium) saloon prices. This is helping drive the sales and the Tesla mythos that makes them such a desirable product to many. If the other manufacturers are able to market themselves soon enough as EV manufacturers and produce enough desirable products (and to capture all of the markets it will probably take more than here's our existing car but with batteries!) then Tesla will lose that advantage.
Given the level of debt Tesla have as a company and that so much of the share price is based on their potential for growth, I think it would really have serious impacts on their profitability as a conventional manufacturer if they cannot grow their current market share by a significant portion over the next 5-10 years as EV sales start to cannibalise ICE sales.
This also assumes that Elon's self marketing and creative approach to accounting don't drag the company down first but so far they seem pretty teflon to everything they cause.
Re potential for growth, not good news for tesla mobility / carshare, that one of their larger competitors is pulling out before Tesla have even launched their car sharing app. Which was rumoured to be launching soon, without fsd.
"SHARE NOW, in conjunction with its shareholders at Daimler AG and The BMW Group, has decided to exit the North American market and cease operations in London, Brussels and Florence, effective February 29, 2020.
The decision to close North America was made based on two extremely complicated realities. The first being the volatile state of the global mobility landscape, and the second being the rising infrastructure complexities facing North American transportation today - such as a rapidly evolving competitive mobility landscape, the lack of necessary infrastructure to support new technology (including electric vehicle car share) and rising operating costs."
https://www.share-now.com/ca/en/important-update/
"SHARE NOW, in conjunction with its shareholders at Daimler AG and The BMW Group, has decided to exit the North American market and cease operations in London, Brussels and Florence, effective February 29, 2020.
The decision to close North America was made based on two extremely complicated realities. The first being the volatile state of the global mobility landscape, and the second being the rising infrastructure complexities facing North American transportation today - such as a rapidly evolving competitive mobility landscape, the lack of necessary infrastructure to support new technology (including electric vehicle car share) and rising operating costs."
https://www.share-now.com/ca/en/important-update/
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 19th December 12:55
Sambucket said:
Re potential for growth, not good news for tesla mobility / carshare, that one of their larger competitors is pulling out before Tesla have even launched their car sharing app. Which was rumoured to be launching soon, without fsd.
"SHARE NOW, in conjunction with its shareholders at Daimler AG and The BMW Group, has decided to exit the North American market and cease operations in London, Brussels and Florence, effective February 29, 2020.
The decision to close North America was made based on two extremely complicated realities. The first being the volatile state of the global mobility landscape, and the second being the rising infrastructure complexities facing North American transportation today - such as a rapidly evolving competitive mobility landscape, the lack of necessary infrastructure to support new technology (including electric vehicle car share) and rising operating costs."
https://www.share-now.com/ca/en/important-update/
most drivers dont want car sharing, have you meet people ugh ... "SHARE NOW, in conjunction with its shareholders at Daimler AG and The BMW Group, has decided to exit the North American market and cease operations in London, Brussels and Florence, effective February 29, 2020.
The decision to close North America was made based on two extremely complicated realities. The first being the volatile state of the global mobility landscape, and the second being the rising infrastructure complexities facing North American transportation today - such as a rapidly evolving competitive mobility landscape, the lack of necessary infrastructure to support new technology (including electric vehicle car share) and rising operating costs."
https://www.share-now.com/ca/en/important-update/
Greggsybabe said:
Given the level of debt Tesla have as a company and that so much of the share price is based on their potential for growth, I think it would really have serious impacts on their profitability as a conventional manufacturer if they cannot grow their current market share by a significant portion over the next 5-10 years as EV sales start to cannibalise ICE sales.
This is the key thing. The quality of the cars is almost irrelevant given the financial structure of the company.Greggsybabe said:
With the huge head start Tesla garnered in pushing pure EV wholesale long before the other manufacturers, when the majority of the consumer base think "electric" Tesla rightly or wrongly is the name that springs to mind .
Nope.Your average person on the street doesn't know Tesla still. They don't advertise on radio, TV,media, print or digital.
Most people don't know space X exists, or that the rocket lands back one earth.
You can ask your average person about the latest headline story across all newspaper and TV, and they likely wouldn't know. As they are getting on with whatever their lives consist of, and watching soaps or topgear and don't care to read the news.
The amount of spending, and the quality of marketing agencies that the traditional manufacturers use is on a different level.
Prince Harry is driving Meghan around in an Etron
Audi will again sign up with man u and Barcelona and the entire football teams will be given freebies. R8 Etron, driven by Iron Man in the ridiculously successful Avengers Endgame. Facebook will.be flooded with ads. And so on.
Tesla is currently getting load of press as every new EV is compared to it, and this gives them a bounce. And as models increase this will reduce.
Data won this election for Boris, and the manufacturers know their customers very well.
Edited by hyphen on Thursday 19th December 13:09
hyphen said:
Nope.
Your average person on the street doesn't know Tesla still. They don't advertise on radio, TV,media, print or digital.
Be honest, how much of this stuff do you make up as you go along?Your average person on the street doesn't know Tesla still. They don't advertise on radio, TV,media, print or digital.
"When it comes to electric vehicle brand awareness in the marketplace, Elon Musk’s Tesla by far surpasses all others, according to a study released Monday by Cox Automotive."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2019/08/19/...
Sambucket said:
Be honest, how much of this stuff do you make up as you go along?
"When it comes to electric vehicle brand awareness in the marketplace, Elon Musk’s Tesla by far surpasses all others, according to a study released Monday by Cox Automotive."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2019/08/19/...
Can you not read? "When it comes to electric vehicle brand awareness in the marketplace, Elon Musk’s Tesla by far surpasses all others, according to a study released Monday by Cox Automotive."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2019/08/19/...
It says that they surveyed people looking to buy EVs i.e. a tiny percentage of car buyers. They did not survey the other 98% of car buyers.
Did you even read that article...
So my statement is yet to be disproved by you, go on try harder...
What the manufacturers are going to do, is go sell EVs to people who have barely looked at them, if at all.
People are going to walk into the showroom to buy the latest version of their current ice car, and walk out with an EV than an incentivised salesman has persuaded them to buy.
Edited by hyphen on Thursday 19th December 13:17
hyphen said:
Can you not read?
It says that they surveyed people looking to buy EVs i.e. a tiny percentage of car buyers. They did not survey the other 98% of car buyers.
Did you even read that article...
So my statement is yet to be disproved by you, go on try harder...
What the manufacturers are going to do, is go seek EVs to people who have barely looked at them, if at all.
So you make a statement that Tesla has no brand awareness amongst general population. And it's up to us to disprove it? Or take you at your word?It says that they surveyed people looking to buy EVs i.e. a tiny percentage of car buyers. They did not survey the other 98% of car buyers.
Did you even read that article...
So my statement is yet to be disproved by you, go on try harder...
What the manufacturers are going to do, is go seek EVs to people who have barely looked at them, if at all.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 19th December 13:15
f
ked up, but your house, your rules. This survey is general population, as requested. Guess who is number 1!
https://evannex.com/blogs/news/global-survey-finds...
Let me guess, bad data?
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 19th December 13:20
Sambucket said:
So you make a statement that Tesla has no brand awareness amongst general population. And it's up to us to disprove it? Or take you at your word?
fked up, but your house, your rules.
This survey is general population, as requested. Guess who is number 1!
https://evannex.com/blogs/news/global-survey-finds...
Again you misquote. I did not say Tesla has no brand awareness, I said the average person doesn't.f
ked up, but your house, your rules. This survey is general population, as requested. Guess who is number 1!
https://evannex.com/blogs/news/global-survey-finds...
You would amazed at how little 'news' people take in.
Go ask your pensioner nan on her way to the Nissan dealer to speak to her favourite salesman to get another Micra, if she watched the Cybertruck launch.
hyphen said:
Again you misquote. I did not say Tesla has no brand awareness, I said the average person doesn't.
Go ask your pensioner nan on her way to the Nissan deals to get another Micra if she watched the Cybertruck launch.
I just gave you survey results from general population. What sources have you contributed other than your intuition?Go ask your pensioner nan on her way to the Nissan deals to get another Micra if she watched the Cybertruck launch.
Sambucket said:
I just gave you survey results from general population. What have you contributed to the debate other than your intuition?
?? No you have not. I clearly and correctly pointed out that it was not the general population.And yet you repeat the same false truth...
Edited by hyphen on Thursday 19th December 13:33
2 seconds on Google, Nov 19 survey by YouGov.
- Tesla 38th most popular car brand
-41st most famous.
- mostly with millennials (many of whom can't afford one)
- only 29% of women have a positive opinion of Tesla, and 40% of men.
Petrol heads live in a bubble Sam, did you not see what happened with Brexit and the recent election. People convince themselves they know what everyone else is thinking.
Sam you don't understand how the masses minds work, and the lives they live. You are detached.
People who use Twitter forget the majority of the population dont use it.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/transport/explore/bran...
- Tesla 38th most popular car brand
-41st most famous.
- mostly with millennials (many of whom can't afford one)
- only 29% of women have a positive opinion of Tesla, and 40% of men.
Petrol heads live in a bubble Sam, did you not see what happened with Brexit and the recent election. People convince themselves they know what everyone else is thinking.
Sam you don't understand how the masses minds work, and the lives they live. You are detached.
People who use Twitter forget the majority of the population dont use it.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/transport/explore/bran...
Edited by hyphen on Thursday 19th December 13:29
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