Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)
Discussion
gangzoom said:
Gandahar said:
.
Elon goes on about saving the planet and yet just seems to want to be the richest billionaire on earth.
Musk is very unstable, but clearly isn't driven by money, if he was he would have done a Rosberg and jacked in his job become another YouTube star a long time ago.Elon goes on about saving the planet and yet just seems to want to be the richest billionaire on earth.
What ever you think of him there is no denying what's his achieved so far. FSD I still think is a con, but than I remeber stuff like this......Ofcourse you could argue Space flight is simply a complicated problem with complicated but established solutions, versus driving which is a complex problem with gets wicked very quickly. I guess we'll find out in a few days.
[Img]https://media.wired.com/photos/5a7cb68fa2d3835392e1b469/4:3/w_2133,h_1600,c_limit/spacexrocketreturn.jpg[/thumb]
[Img]https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/starship-SN5-hop-640x353.jpg[/mg]
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 18th October 07:03
Mars as a destination for humans is not likely this decade - unless we overcome the radiation challenges of a human in a can being 'cooked' as an achievement?
dukeboy749r said:
gangzoom said:
Gandahar said:
.
Elon goes on about saving the planet and yet just seems to want to be the richest billionaire on earth.
Musk is very unstable, but clearly isn't driven by money, if he was he would have done a Rosberg and jacked in his job become another YouTube star a long time ago.Elon goes on about saving the planet and yet just seems to want to be the richest billionaire on earth.
What ever you think of him there is no denying what's his achieved so far. FSD I still think is a con, but than I remeber stuff like this......Ofcourse you could argue Space flight is simply a complicated problem with complicated but established solutions, versus driving which is a complex problem with gets wicked very quickly. I guess we'll find out in a few days.
[Img]https://media.wired.com/photos/5a7cb68fa2d3835392e1b469/4:3/w_2133,h_1600,c_limit/spacexrocketreturn.jpg[/thumb]
[Img]https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/starship-SN5-hop-640x353.jpg[/mg]
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 18th October 07:03
Mars as a destination for humans is not likely this decade - unless we overcome the radiation challenges of a human in a can being 'cooked' as an achievement?
SpaceX said:
Starship is the fully reusable spacecraft and second stage of the Starship system. It offers an integrated payload section and is capable of carrying passengers and cargo to Earth orbit, planetary destinations, and between destinations on Earth.
The SN8 prototype is almost ready for its first 50000ft flght. It's the stuff of science fiction. Amazing Stories cover from the 1940's vs Starship
Edited by 98elise on Monday 19th October 18:52
Renault who have already proven their EV abilities with the Zoe, are now releasing a bev Megane in 2021. "Thinnest battery on the market" they say. Plus a Dacia micro SUV thingy. All using the CMF-EV platform, which Nissan are also releasing a compct SUV on for 2021 too.
By the time Tesla get around to releasing their cheap car, everyone will already have a cheap ev
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/renault-unve...
By the time Tesla get around to releasing their cheap car, everyone will already have a cheap ev
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/renault-unve...
Apple created the modern smartphone market and it exploded, resulting in Apple having a sizeable share of the market. Tesla on the other hand have been unable to grow the BEV market without governement help.
Apple also went heavy down the traditional route to the consumer, partnered with all the networks, sold via independent retailers as well as opening their own stores, heavy marketing and advertising and so on.
Apple have been working on a EV for years, but they have stayed quiet about it, its ready when its ready, which is a different approach to Tesla!
Apple and Tesla are not comparable, the culture at both companies is completely difference.
Apple also went heavy down the traditional route to the consumer, partnered with all the networks, sold via independent retailers as well as opening their own stores, heavy marketing and advertising and so on.
Apple have been working on a EV for years, but they have stayed quiet about it, its ready when its ready, which is a different approach to Tesla!
Apple and Tesla are not comparable, the culture at both companies is completely difference.
So Tesla is doomed because they don't make a cheap car and the competition is already here with their cheap cars?
Is this the same reason you don't see any Audi A3, BMW 1 series or Merc A class around? They were just too late to the market, that's why they are failures?
And where's the funny?
Is this the same reason you don't see any Audi A3, BMW 1 series or Merc A class around? They were just too late to the market, that's why they are failures?
And where's the funny?
ZesPak said:
So Tesla is doomed because they don't make a cheap car and the competition is already here with their cheap cars?
Is this the same reason you don't see any Audi A3, BMW 1 series or Merc A class around? They were just too late to the market, that's why they are failures?
And where's the funny?
Actually, I think that Tesla SHOULDNT make a cheap car. While financial markets cant be trusted on most things, after their announcement of the cheap one, their shares went down! Seems that I am not alone.Is this the same reason you don't see any Audi A3, BMW 1 series or Merc A class around? They were just too late to the market, that's why they are failures?
And where's the funny?
What is astonishing is that Tesla has been able to continue to sell cars during a global pandemic with no discounts! In fact, most markets grew! There is a market for premium products and clearly plenty of buyers today. I dont see that slowing down in the short term, if not the medium term. Why sell the cheap, low margin cars? Let the others handle this and mop up the expensive side of the market....
Nah, dont do a cheap one - stick to what they do best....
off_again said:
Actually, I think that Tesla SHOULDNT make a cheap car. While financial markets cant be trusted on most things, after their announcement of the cheap one, their shares went down! Seems that I am not alone.
Cheap is relative. For example the A-class isn't a cheap car, but it's a cheap Mercedes.Entry level cars can entice an audience that can be loyal for years, and a lot of my contacts still think of Tesla as "THE EV to get".
On top of that, as a second car or for city traffic, some might find the TM3 too big. A compact upmarket EV, like the Mini or Honda would be nice, and for now it doesn't seem like BMW/Merc/Audi are joining in?
off_again said:
What is astonishing is that Tesla has been able to continue to sell cars during a global pandemic with no discounts!
Where were you at the end of last quarter? There were plenty of Model 3 cars with discounts on the inventory lists. 2021 cars are already being offered with a discount in some Europe countries. They've dropped the price of the MS in the US twice in a couple of months.MX are widely available with discounts too. Lead times are now as long as it takes for the boat to arrive. They're selling plenty I'd agree but the "sell everything they make" thing is now only true because they're offering incentives. It would be a poor business man who would reduce the price if he could sell everything he has at the higher price especially given the investment he's making and that he's had to go to the markets for fundraising.
Most valuable car Co. in the world has their hand in my (taxpayer) pocket - https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123134...
ZesPak said:
On top of that, as a second car or for city traffic, some might find the TM3 too big. A compact upmarket EV, like the Mini or Honda would be nice, and for now it doesn't seem like BMW/Merc/Audi are joining in?
I dont disagree, as that was a lot of the driving decisions around the A-Class and 1/2-Series models. Get the cheaper models to the younger drivers and guide the buyers up through the range as they age. Theory is that you can keep shuffling up the models over time, while introducing smaller models to the bottom end.So yeah, I completely agree - a premium compact model (one of the fastest segments) would be a great idea, but its super competitive and not sure the margins are quite in it at the moment. Tesla claim to make good margin on the models they make, that is going to get diminished when pushing down, and without big volumes, I am not sure it might be a little too far.
But equally, its tough though - Jag struggled for years without a wider range and even Porsche admitted that they needed to go wide. This is really a game for very large companies with a wide spread of products in a global market - three models in a niche (which EV's still are in the WW scale) and Tesla might have cash in the bank and a stock price riding high, its also easy to lose a ton of money over time if they cant address the demand.
ZesPak: "A compact upmarket EV, like the Mini or Honda would be nice, and for now it doesn't seem like BMW/Merc/Audi are joining in?"
BMW own Mini so they might view that as covering the niche but it would be easy for them to do their own version as the new 1 series shares its underpinnings with the present Mini.
BMW own Mini so they might view that as covering the niche but it would be easy for them to do their own version as the new 1 series shares its underpinnings with the present Mini.
paua said:
Most valuable car Co. in the world has their hand in my (taxpayer) pocket - https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123134...
OT- To be fair, Tesla in NZ make large losses so they aren't taking the pee, as opposed to Briscoe which is essentially owned by a billionaire. The same guy who just built a helicopter landing pad on a public beach by using loop holes and a team of expensive lawyers. Who is more repugnant. Heres Johnny said:
off_again said:
What is astonishing is that Tesla has been able to continue to sell cars during a global pandemic with no discounts!
Where were you at the end of last quarter? There were plenty of Model 3 cars with discounts on the inventory lists. 2021 cars are already being offered with a discount in some Europe countries. They've dropped the price of the MS in the US twice in a couple of months.MX are widely available with discounts too. Lead times are now as long as it takes for the boat to arrive. They're selling plenty I'd agree but the "sell everything they make" thing is now only true because they're offering incentives. It would be a poor business man who would reduce the price if he could sell everything he has at the higher price especially given the investment he's making and that he's had to go to the markets for fundraising.
I don't believe this will help Tesla's advances into Europe.
Dutch Tesla Claim Foundation takes Tesla to court
The newly established Tesla Claim Foundation announces a class action lawsuit against car manufacturer Tesla. “Because the cars regularly show defects and do not meet expectations.” The collective action is one of the first to make use of new legislation that allows for joint claims for damages.
https://tekdeeps.com/dutch-tesla-claim-foundation-... and various other link if you google it.
Dutch Tesla Claim Foundation takes Tesla to court
The newly established Tesla Claim Foundation announces a class action lawsuit against car manufacturer Tesla. “Because the cars regularly show defects and do not meet expectations.” The collective action is one of the first to make use of new legislation that allows for joint claims for damages.
https://tekdeeps.com/dutch-tesla-claim-foundation-... and various other link if you google it.
California Tesla Model 3 Q3 sales show 13% yoy decline.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/tesla-registrations...
https://uk.reuters.com/article/tesla-registrations...
hyphen said:
Heres Johnny said:
off_again said:
What is astonishing is that Tesla has been able to continue to sell cars during a global pandemic with no discounts!
Where were you at the end of last quarter? There were plenty of Model 3 cars with discounts on the inventory lists. 2021 cars are already being offered with a discount in some Europe countries. They've dropped the price of the MS in the US twice in a couple of months.MX are widely available with discounts too. Lead times are now as long as it takes for the boat to arrive. They're selling plenty I'd agree but the "sell everything they make" thing is now only true because they're offering incentives. It would be a poor business man who would reduce the price if he could sell everything he has at the higher price especially given the investment he's making and that he's had to go to the markets for fundraising.
coetzeeh said:
California Tesla Model 3 Q3 sales show 13% yoy decline.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/tesla-registrations...
On the plus side, Y is doing well.https://uk.reuters.com/article/tesla-registrations...
"At nearly 7,300, registrations in the state for Tesla’s Model Y compact crossover utility vehicle surpassed those for the Model 3."
hyphen said:
coetzeeh said:
California Tesla Model 3 Q3 sales show 13% yoy decline.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/tesla-registrations...
On the plus side, Y is doing well.https://uk.reuters.com/article/tesla-registrations...
"At nearly 7,300, registrations in the state for Tesla’s Model Y compact crossover utility vehicle surpassed those for the Model 3."
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