Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

[BJWoods]

jjwilde said:

Seems to work very well for Tesla and Tesla owners.

I think that is because Tesla see the network as part of the product.. vs other car manufactures building the cars and not worrying about the charging infrastructure, as not 'their 'problem.. as Harry's video shows it is part of the problem, stopping take up..

the economic and behaviour changes will be interesting.. If I had a I-pace and wanted to drive to Birmingham and back in a day. I'd start off fully charged, would I want the car to be able to round trip it.. Would I 'fill up (to full) when I got their, or would I want to fully 'top it up' (takes less time). I don't know yet.

Each 'pump' can only service so many vehicles per day... how much do you need to charge, per 'pump' to make that economically viable as a third party supplier (vs Tesla's network).. Still a learning curve for the third party industry... Are all the car- manufacturers doing a tie up to improve infrastructure? Like Harry, I could happily have an I-pace as a 2nd car, semi tethered to my home address. not a cheap car though to buy, for that purpose

[Dave Hedgehog]

BJWoods said:

Each 'pump' can only service so many vehicles per day... how much do you need to charge, per 'pump' to make that economically viable as a third party supplier (vs Tesla's network).. Still a learning curve for the third party industry... Are all the car- manufacturers doing a tie up to improve infrastructure? Like Harry, I could happily have an I-pace as a 2nd car, semi tethered to my home address. not a cheap car though to buy, for that purpose

Installation is expensive but they should have a very long life with minimal maintenance and a good return in the long term

Its early days so there is a lot to learn about optimal placement of these chargers

[Tuna]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Installation is expensive but they should have a very long life with minimal maintenance and a good return in the long term

Not sure that's true. Experience with things like small wind turbines and solar panels says that power electronics in a semi-exposed installation have quite a finite lifespan, even ignoring the sort of physical knocks a demanding customer can inflict.

[anonymous-user]

Must confessed I'm a bit bored of watching space x land boosters and reading Tesla bankruptcy news.

More explosions and court cases please!

[jjwilde]

Maybe this is how this thread dies, Tesla just doing really well, doubters quietly hiding away with their tails between their legs.

To come this year:

Roadster, Semi, Model Y, perhaps some new CyberTruck news, maybe a new ModelS interior for the Plaid version.

Tesla kicks the Taycan's ass on the 'ring (maybe with the 3, Y and S).

100kwh 3? Plaid mode on the 3?

500k + sales? Route to 1million?

Next stage autopilot?

UK sales going wild from 0% BIK?

It's going to be fun.

[Tuna]

jjwilde said:

Maybe this is how this thread dies, Tesla just doing really well, doubters quietly hiding away with their tails between their legs.

The problem with jam tomorrow is there's never proof that it's not coming. Wait long enough and we guarantee there really will be jam.

FSD and autopilot will be interesting this year. I'm guessing it'll be trialled and promoted and there will be releases that do more tricks, but I'm a lot more cynical about a real FSD facility on any existing Telsa model vehicles.

Similarly, the RoboTaxi thing will float just on the horizon - a large scale roll out would reveal just how the economics would (or wouldn't) work, and Musk can't afford that.

Tesla will probably spend the year morphing into just another (slightly niche) car manufacturer, without admitting as much as that would decimate the share price. We'll have to see how the Y affects sales and profits (I'm expecting positively - it conveniently moves away from the promise of an affordable EV), and whether anyone notices that the company hasn't the capacity to fully support more than one model at a time.

I remain bearish on Telsa's promises, and a financial shock (or external development) could unwind the whole structure - but so long as there's still the promise of jam tomorrow, the company will continue to be indulged by its creditors and share holders, so why should it go anywhere?

[Lt. Coulomb]

jjwilde said:

Maybe this is how this thread dies,

Won’t ever die, PH gammons won’t forget that Tesla started the mainstream EVolution.

[Gandahar]

543.40+32.90 (+6.44%)
As of 10:32AM EST. Market open.


Up 6% in one morning because


Tesla Shares May Reach $960 in Early 2021, Biggest Bull Says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-shares-may-re...

And people complain about shorts shorting Tesla, but when another bull says $400, and then $500 and then $4000-6000 and then $960, all the while pumping the market, nobody bats an eyelid.



In the last 5 months there has been good results for Tesla in profit and cars sold and I expect the Q4 earnings next Tuesday to better than market expectation... but 6% in one day over nothing?

Perhaps there has been some release I have not seen so far. I've been sorting out the gas boiler with the money I made on Aston Martin Lagonda. Turns out it only needed a thermocouple at £11.38 but with labour I'm still penniless ....

Tesla share price is getting more and more defunct with reality. I'm not sure which is more optimistic nowadays, them or Boeing.

Note ... long Airbus .... so might be biased....

[Gandahar]

jjwilde said:

hyphen said:

From another thread, charging price change for 'direct customers'

I imagine that means non partner manufacturers, such as Tesla.

Edited by hyphen on Thursday 16th January 21:20

Yet another reason Tesla's charging network is one of their best assets. No Tesla owner has to worry about those silly prices.

Very good point

This summarised how crap non Tesla charging is at present

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEyfCcAbtKU

Looking at all those empty Tesla fast chargers Harry saw an oasis in a desert of chargers costing a lot and he didn't have the app ....

[Gandahar]

jjwilde said:

Tuna said:

Very odd logic. Doesn't it show that running a charging network is extremely expensive, and scales badly with uptake?

If VW started giving away diesel to all their drivers 'for life', it wouldn't be heralded as a brilliant business move, would it?

Seems to work very well for Tesla and Tesla owners.

Currently, pardon the pun.

In 5 years time I expect Walmarts / Tesco and the other supermarkets just using it as a sales tool.

You shop. Your car is charged for free in the time you take to do your shopping as long as you spend £30. You don't have to go out of your way to charge. DOUBLE POINTS !

Then Elon's charging infrastructure is a dead duck / albatross.

[Gandahar]

jjwilde said:

Maybe this is how this thread dies, Tesla just doing really well, doubters quietly hiding away with their tails between their legs.

To come this year:

Roadster, Semi, Model Y, perhaps some new CyberTruck news, maybe a new ModelS interior for the Plaid version.

Tesla kicks the Taycan's ass on the 'ring (maybe with the 3, Y and S).

100kwh 3? Plaid mode on the 3?

500k + sales? Route to 1million?

Next stage autopilot?

UK sales going wild from 0% BIK?

It's going to be fun.

Why would the thread die when it is about share prices and sales, profit, loans etc and it is really interesting to watch?

You talk about cars ... but surely you know Tesla is not longer just a car manufacturer ? They are more than a car manufacturer. Even though they still keep making car manufacturing plants of course. To make things that are not cars ........

This thread will never die because it's a social media story of good v evil, Boomer v Generation Y , electric welly wearing asparagus eaters v Red blooded meat eaters. Greta Thunberg v Jeremy Clarkson. The evil Sith empire that is Elon Musk v Luke Skywalker over on the planet Wolfsburg.

Big Daddy v Giant Haystacks.

" doubters quietly hiding away with their tails between their legs."

Good luck with that wish. Maybe 4 quarters of profits on the bounce would be a good start....


PS You fantasied :- "Tesla kicks the Taycan's ass on the 'ring (maybe with the 3, Y and S)."

Let's see them in Formula E before we start talking motorsport and circuits?

[Gandahar]

Lt. Coulomb said:

jjwilde said:

Maybe this is how this thread dies,

Won’t ever die, PH gammons won’t forget that Tesla started the mainstream EVolution.

I don't think that £55k in 2013 money can be considered mainstream.

Nissan Leaf?

[hyphen]

jjwilde said:

Maybe this is how this thread dies, Tesla just doing really well, doubters quietly hiding away with their tails between their legs.

This thread is about the OG manufacturers not being able to hack it with Tesla isn't it? So this won't be clear for quite a while still.

[hyphen]

jjwilde said:

Yet another reason Tesla's charging network is one of their best assets. No Tesla owner has to worry about those silly prices.

Tesla had well publicised, embarrassing queues at their chargers over the holiday period.

As volumes of Teslas on road increase, without there being good profit in it, it will be hard for Tesla to keep up infrastructure spend.

I read last year that they are already diverting their European supercharger install focus to newer markets, eastern Europe and Iceland.

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 21st January 16:35

[coetzeeh]

jjwilde said:

Maybe this is how this thread dies, Tesla just doing really well, doubters quietly hiding away with their tails between their legs.

To come this year:

Tesla kicks the Taycan's ass on the 'ring (maybe with the 3, Y and S).

500k + sales? Route to 1million?

Next stage autopilot?

UK sales going wild from 0% BIK?

It's going to be fun.

Must be an echo in here.

[anonymous-user]

Tesla will always have detractors who value as a car company, so there will always be complaints about the share price.

But the chances of Tesla being forced to restructure into a 'normal' niche car company are increasingly low imo.

[Some Gump]

Sambucket said:

Tesla will always have detractors who value as a car company, so there will always be complaints about the share price.

But the chances of Tesla being forced to restructure into a 'normal' niche car company are increasingly low imo.

What about detractors who think Tesla is being valued as a profitable company?

They've been "going to make a profit next year" for many years now. Will be very interesting to see if h22019-h12020 is that year. Current investors clearly think this us the year where the ship has turned round. Current shorters obviously disagree.

Will be a very interesting quarterly update!

[RobDickinson]

Malking a profit now is stupid.

They have a growing share of a growing market that'll be huge.

I'd prefer them to borrow $10-20bn more and build more factories if I was an investor.

[Some Gump]

RobDickinson said:

Malking a profit now is stupid.

They have a growing share of a growing market that'll be huge.

I'd prefer them to borrow $10-20bn more and build more factories if I was an investor.

So jam in a year or two?

[RobDickinson]

Oh hell yes.