Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)
Discussion
LG9k said:
ZesPak said:
Not just that, in Germany apparently up to 1/3 reported ID3 "sold" were actually sold to VAG themselves.
For the Taycan the number is reported to be closer to 50%...
This of course to minimize the EU CO2 fines.
Report in German:
https://www.greenpeace.de/sites/www.greenpeace.de/...
Summary article in English :
http://techzle.com/greenpeace-volkswagen-is-messin...
This is not news, they've been doing that for decades For the Taycan the number is reported to be closer to 50%...
This of course to minimize the EU CO2 fines.
Report in German:
https://www.greenpeace.de/sites/www.greenpeace.de/...
Summary article in English :
http://techzle.com/greenpeace-volkswagen-is-messin...
EddieSteadyGo said:
TBH they need to. I've just ordered my wife a new Kia e-niro - the deals on the ID3 were *much* better, but she picked the Kia even though the brand isn't as good as VW. Those early reviews for the ID3 with all their glitches and issues have not done the brand any favours.
And I've also let the team down badly... despite still thinking Musk is a prat, I've just ordered a new Model 3 Long Range. I had a test drive last week (yes, despite lockdown they are still doing test drives). And it was surprisingly good, better I would say in a few ways than the i-pace. Should arrive next month.
You should get it quicker than that, they have about 50 long range unsold in new inventory stock. And I've also let the team down badly... despite still thinking Musk is a prat, I've just ordered a new Model 3 Long Range. I had a test drive last week (yes, despite lockdown they are still doing test drives). And it was surprisingly good, better I would say in a few ways than the i-pace. Should arrive next month.
Burwood said:
200 UK dealers have a whopping 57 id.3 cars for sale. VW actually do have demand exceeding capacity-unlike Tesla
Yeah, I was wondering why there were so few English articles about it. It was all over the German auto sites about a week ago. The numbers in the report are from Greenpeace, so between your classified sleuthing, VW and Greenpeace, it's a bit like choosing between stepping on a Lego, giving birth and reading Trump tweets. It reminds me of the Tesla Denmark tax cheat story that had a politician over there frothing at the mouth. He ended up apologising when he calmed down and actually found out for himself what they were doing.
I'm yet to see an ID3 on the road, the Mk8 Golf though seems to be everywhere.
I'm yet to see an ID3 on the road, the Mk8 Golf though seems to be everywhere.
Burwood said:
VW actually do have demand exceeding capacity-unlike Tesla
hyphen said:
VW being aggressive:
"VWFS to pay early termination fees for fleets that switch to ID3, even if with a different provider"
VWFS Fleet will also include a free pod-point home charger with every eligible ID3 lease.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news...
"VWFS to pay early termination fees for fleets that switch to ID3, even if with a different provider"
VWFS Fleet will also include a free pod-point home charger with every eligible ID3 lease.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news...
jjwilde said:
Burwood said:
We will see but Tesla may sell even less cars in 2021 than it did in 2020. The stage is being set for a $100 stock price 
Do you actually believe this?Burwood said:
VW actually do have demand exceeding capacity-unlike Tesla
Ignoring the numbers in Germany, what you actually meant:The ID3 actually does have demand exceeding capacity-unlike Tesla's older models.
ds666 said:
Shouldn't this thread be in the Tesla forum ?
It's a much nicer place here without the fans .
Yes, wouldn't want the opinion of the people who actually own one.It's a much nicer place here without the fans .
SWoll said:
ds666 said:
Shouldn't this thread be in the Tesla forum ?
It's a much nicer place here without the fans .
Bless, do you really need a safe space from opinions you don't agree with on a message board? It's a much nicer place here without the fans .
How some people cope with real life is beyond me.
Shares took a beating again yesterday, down from a high of 900 just a few of weeks ago to 686. They're quite volatile daily but the trend for the last month has been continually downward. Might just be following the usual end of year share pump/gold rush that is common with Tesla. This time the gold rush was a bit more extreme than previously though.
There's also an article on Bloomberg which tries to explain the German market and why big companies there won't offer the Tesla to their employees for company cars despite the employees showing a lot of interest.
They put it down to lack of service centers in the country compared to other manufactures, refusal to offer discounts for bulk buyers and the lack of any sort of relationship between the fleet managers and the company which other brands have built up over the years.
Whether that is true or if it's just German companies protecting German auto makers is hard to verify but the words from the SAP fleet manager seemed genuine rather than protectionist.
I wonder if Tesla are just biding their time, waiting for Berlin to start throwing our cars before they start going after the fleet sales with the discounts and support those fleet managers will require?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-03...
I know Bloomberg is about as reliable as Teslarati for "news" sometimes but this article seems to have been well researched at least.
Tesla clearly have a demand issue outside of the US with their current production rate, China isn't at full capacity yet but they still can't sell what they make in China and have ship cars out to Europe. The US delivery times are almost next day for most models suggesting their inventory stock is pretty good. They'll have another factory in Germany throwing out cars by the thousands soon on top of that.
The Model Y will just steal Model 3 sales especially in Europe where saloon cars have rapidly fallen out of favour over the years.
Many a company has struggled or even failed by over expanding, perhaps they'll approach another difficult period over the next year or two like the danger they were in during 2018?
There's also an article on Bloomberg which tries to explain the German market and why big companies there won't offer the Tesla to their employees for company cars despite the employees showing a lot of interest.
They put it down to lack of service centers in the country compared to other manufactures, refusal to offer discounts for bulk buyers and the lack of any sort of relationship between the fleet managers and the company which other brands have built up over the years.
Whether that is true or if it's just German companies protecting German auto makers is hard to verify but the words from the SAP fleet manager seemed genuine rather than protectionist.
I wonder if Tesla are just biding their time, waiting for Berlin to start throwing our cars before they start going after the fleet sales with the discounts and support those fleet managers will require?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-03...
I know Bloomberg is about as reliable as Teslarati for "news" sometimes but this article seems to have been well researched at least.
Tesla clearly have a demand issue outside of the US with their current production rate, China isn't at full capacity yet but they still can't sell what they make in China and have ship cars out to Europe. The US delivery times are almost next day for most models suggesting their inventory stock is pretty good. They'll have another factory in Germany throwing out cars by the thousands soon on top of that.
The Model Y will just steal Model 3 sales especially in Europe where saloon cars have rapidly fallen out of favour over the years.
Many a company has struggled or even failed by over expanding, perhaps they'll approach another difficult period over the next year or two like the danger they were in during 2018?
Edited by Smiljan on Wednesday 3rd March 09:16
DrJFoster said:
SWoll said:
ds666 said:
Shouldn't this thread be in the Tesla forum ?
It's a much nicer place here without the fans .
Bless, do you really need a safe space from opinions you don't agree with on a message board? It's a much nicer place here without the fans .
How some people cope with real life is beyond me.
UBS analyst just said.....what a moron. You read it here folks. It's not about selling cars now. Hemmell (paraphrasing) said as Tesla will have it's ass handed to it by other OEMs we need another factor to pump up the stock. Apparently FSD is worth 200B. AND $400B for everything else. Just 400B for 'the rest' oh!
Burwood said:
UBS analyst just said.....what a moron. You read it here folks. It's not about selling cars now. Hemmell (paraphrasing) said as Tesla will have it's ass handed to it by other OEMs we need another factor to pump up the stock. Apparently FSD is worth 200B. AND $400B for everything else. Just 400B for 'the rest' oh!
I think that quote is saying Tesla's value as a car maker is roughly $200bn. And everything else (amounting to $400bn+) is for the FSD, solar stuff etc.Personally I think that makes sense - the only way you get anywhere close to the current valuation is if you believe Tesla will delivery FSD. I'm in the "sceptic" group, so that would leave a company with a share price about a 1/3 of the current level. Still pretty good though.
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