Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
No other car company has their own advanced materials specialists creating unique alloys, tesla share that team with spacex where they originally came from.
But regardless of that the question of gigapress and large castings is complex, more so when you already have factories setup with metal stamping and robots you'd have to retire, plus the advent of ahss.
Tesla's way here works for them but it's a higher risk and more expense than others who already have factories sat there.
Do you really think German engineering will be left with their proverbial wiener in their hand on this. I doubt it But regardless of that the question of gigapress and large castings is complex, more so when you already have factories setup with metal stamping and robots you'd have to retire, plus the advent of ahss.
Tesla's way here works for them but it's a higher risk and more expense than others who already have factories sat there.
Burwood said:
Do you really think German engineering will be left with their proverbial wiener in their hand on this. I doubt it
I'm sure Rob's right. Every other car company just asks for "metal, please" when they order their materials to make billions of dollars worth of cars. No research into alloys at all. 
Burwood said:
Do you really think German engineering will be left with their proverbial wiener in their hand on this. I doubt it
VW's project trinity is supposed to be the answer but that wont be going until at least 2026. I'm not sure how aiming for a 2018 tesla to launch in 2026 is doing anything than holding their wiener, Hyundai seem well ahead of VW/BMW etc and moving much faster.
RobDickinson said:
No other car company has their own advanced materials specialists creating unique alloys, tesla share that team with spacex where they originally came from.
But regardless of that the question of gigapress and large castings is complex, more so when you already have factories setup with metal stamping and robots you'd have to retire, plus the advent of ahss.
Jaguar did in 2003 with the XJ aswell as joining process, just no youfacegramitt back then…But regardless of that the question of gigapress and large castings is complex, more so when you already have factories setup with metal stamping and robots you'd have to retire, plus the advent of ahss.
The giga casting dreadnought project or whatever you call it today is certainly one way to increase car production demand, more will be written off, I’m sure of it. It’s not wonder Tesla are also going into insurance.
"The stressed aluminium unibody used 15 aluminium castings, 35 extrusions and 284 stampings bonded using 120 yards of robotically-applied, heat-cured, aerospace-grade epoxy adhesives and approximately 3,200 self-piercing zinc-coated, boron steel rivets"
Theres no info on the aluminium castings or how much heat treating and machining they ended up with either.
Theres no info on the aluminium castings or how much heat treating and machining they ended up with either.
off_again said:
TameBritishMuslim said:
Haven't you heard of Sandy Munro?
Be cautious with Munro. He has jumped off the diving board and is going deep into the Tesla swimming pool. Yes, he is aware of a lot of the manufacturing processes and has a lot of experience in this area, but equally his objectivity around a lot of things is questionable at best currently. Yes, he has made some valid comments and thats reasonable. He's also jumped on the crazy train and is riding it all the way....
Tesla has never paid him a cent (unlike other manufacturers).
Tuna said:
Burwood said:
Do you really think German engineering will be left with their proverbial wiener in their hand on this. I doubt it
I'm sure Rob's right. Every other car company just asks for "metal, please" when they order their materials to make billions of dollars worth of cars. No research into alloys at all. Well let's see when they do it and take the hit on removing existing robots, tooling, re-configuration of production lines, removal of staff etc. Oh and that alloy too.
EddieSteadyGo said:
TameBritishMuslim said:
Based on what?
Tesla has never paid him a cent (unlike other manufacturers).
Lol. Why might you think?Tesla has never paid him a cent (unlike other manufacturers).
He sells the idea of "competitive advantage". The bigger the advantage, the more he can charge to help everyone else to catch up.
And you're implying and thus admitting that he is 'selling' the advantage that Tesla has (which he has discovered from his tear downs).
Here's a bit of a detailed look at casting and costs etc. It's certainly a clean sheet advantage but less certain if you already have a factory etc
https://youtu.be/IMAsCy7YU1M
https://youtu.be/IMAsCy7YU1M
TameBritishMuslim said:
It's called benchmarking.
And you're implying and thus admitting that he is 'selling' the advantage that Tesla has (which he has discovered from his tear downs).
I'm explaining why his interest in Tesla aligns with the interest of his own company. Which you didn't seem to understand earlier.And you're implying and thus admitting that he is 'selling' the advantage that Tesla has (which he has discovered from his tear downs).
And of course Tesla have a competitive advantage; I likely wouldn't own one if they didn't.
EddieSteadyGo said:
TameBritishMuslim said:
It's called benchmarking.
And you're implying and thus admitting that he is 'selling' the advantage that Tesla has (which he has discovered from his tear downs).
I'm explaining why his interest in Tesla aligns with the interest of his own company. Which you didn't seem to understand earlier.And you're implying and thus admitting that he is 'selling' the advantage that Tesla has (which he has discovered from his tear downs).
And of course Tesla have a competitive advantage; I likely wouldn't own one if they didn't.
His firm has worked on all sorts of engineering projects in multiple industries over decades and he specialises in the automotive industry.
He previously tore down a Model S and even the early Model 3 and slated them for a variety of issues (but also noted their positives). He then tore down later versions and sung their praises and now uses them as the benchmark for EVs.
If something better comes along, he will do the same there as he has done in the past and sell new reports - that is literally his business.
TameBritishMuslim said:
Still not sure what you're alluding to?
His firm has worked on all sorts of engineering projects in multiple industries over decades and he specialises in the automotive industry.
He previously tore down a Model S and even the early Model 3 and slated them for a variety of issues (but also noted their positives). He then tore down later versions and sung their praises and now uses them as the benchmark for EVs.
If something better comes along, he will do the same there as he has done in the past and sell new reports - that is literally his business.
What do you think gets their phone to ring? A video on why the Chevy Volt has a better door handle, or a video implying Munro understands Tesla's 'secret sauce' and can give that benefit to other manufacturers?His firm has worked on all sorts of engineering projects in multiple industries over decades and he specialises in the automotive industry.
He previously tore down a Model S and even the early Model 3 and slated them for a variety of issues (but also noted their positives). He then tore down later versions and sung their praises and now uses them as the benchmark for EVs.
If something better comes along, he will do the same there as he has done in the past and sell new reports - that is literally his business.
EddieSteadyGo said:
TameBritishMuslim said:
Still not sure what you're alluding to?
His firm has worked on all sorts of engineering projects in multiple industries over decades and he specialises in the automotive industry.
He previously tore down a Model S and even the early Model 3 and slated them for a variety of issues (but also noted their positives). He then tore down later versions and sung their praises and now uses them as the benchmark for EVs.
If something better comes along, he will do the same there as he has done in the past and sell new reports - that is literally his business.
What do you think gets their phone to ring? A video on why the Chevy Volt has a better door handle, or a video implying Munro understands Tesla's 'secret sauce' and can give that benefit to other manufacturers?His firm has worked on all sorts of engineering projects in multiple industries over decades and he specialises in the automotive industry.
He previously tore down a Model S and even the early Model 3 and slated them for a variety of issues (but also noted their positives). He then tore down later versions and sung their praises and now uses them as the benchmark for EVs.
If something better comes along, he will do the same there as he has done in the past and sell new reports - that is literally his business.
TameBritishMuslim said:
And what has got their phone ringing for the 35 years before Tesla where they worked on everything from defence contracts to aeroplanes and kids dolls?
Clearly Munro is a solid engineer. But I suspect from the point they started selling the Tesla 'secret sauce', they are making a lot more money than before. You can see the change in tone, once they realised what was getting their phone to ring.EddieSteadyGo said:
TameBritishMuslim said:
And what has got their phone ringing for the 35 years before Tesla where they worked on everything from defence contracts to aeroplanes and kids dolls?
Clearly Munro is a solid engineer. But I suspect from the point they started selling the Tesla 'secret sauce', they are making a lot more money than before. You can see the change in tone, once they realised what was getting their phone to ring.TameBritishMuslim said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
TameBritishMuslim said:
And what has got their phone ringing for the 35 years before Tesla where they worked on everything from defence contracts to aeroplanes and kids dolls?
Clearly Munro is a solid engineer. But I suspect from the point they started selling the Tesla 'secret sauce', they are making a lot more money than before. You can see the change in tone, once they realised what was getting their phone to ring.
If you can't see it, I can't explain it to you.
EddieSteadyGo said:
TameBritishMuslim said:
And what has got their phone ringing for the 35 years before Tesla where they worked on everything from defence contracts to aeroplanes and kids dolls?
Clearly Munro is a solid engineer. But I suspect from the point they started selling the Tesla 'secret sauce', they are making a lot more money than before. You can see the change in tone, once they realised what was getting their phone to ring.Youtube provides him with a global platform. I do wonder if Sandy fancies himself the next W Edwards Deming.
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