Nightmare: Charging point apps, maps and Polar experience
Discussion
Hi,
I have been running a Zoe from EVEZY for about 6 months, and overall, I'm impressed with both the car and the hire company.
EVEZY give you free charging at Polar stations with a Polar card which comes with the car.
Thought I would push the boat out and set off on a journey where I knew I didnt have enough charge left to get me there, but where various maps indicated lots of charging places along the way...yes, I like a bit of range anxiety :-)
Left Heathrow T5 heading towards Portsmouth
1. Used ZAP MAP on the Iphone - indicates charge points which I discovered dont exist (eg. Royal Hollaway University campus) or which are 'private' but doesnt tell you that they are private (Hox Park campus). ...25 miles wasted in total
2. I called Phone Polar Plus, and they say dont trust 3rd party map apps as they are more interested in telling you how many charge points exist, not whether you can actually access them
3. Then Polar call centre (which may or may not be the same as Charge Master, and may or may not be owned by BP, depending on which web site, app or call centre you speak to) said go to Runnymeade Hotel and use the Charge Master charge point......they had a successful charge previously that day, and was currently available......arrived and charge point had "sorry this charge point is unavailable" on screen....gave Polar call centre a hard time and they tried rebooting the machine, still no luck...admitted it should have known this point was not working...another 15 miles wasted
4. Now getting a raised heartbeat.....tried with Polar Plus map on Iphone (very limited information)...found a charge point at VMWARE offices (another 10 miles or whatever), buzzed at the entrance and was let in...available spaces, correct connector, and Polar Plus card interface....nice quick charge....HOORAY
So in summary, this is not ready for prime time;
1. Maps are out of date (locations and charge points working/not working status), dont give you full information (public/private, behind a barrier, hours of access), and give you postcodes which are significantly inaccurate to the point you cannot find the charge point when you get to the post code location...the map included in the ZOE infotainment system is so bad, I gave up within an hour of taking delivery of the car (e.g. it wont filter networks which you are a member of, and is completely out of date). Google and Iphone maps are similarly inconsistent (in conflict) and out of date. I ended up finding a charge point by using 3 maps and selecting a location which was the same "2 out of 3" cases
2. There are too many network companies (polar, charge master, BP, ecotricity, instavolt, geniepoint, Podpoint, tesla, etc etc etc) which makes it impossible to know which charge points you can use from your membership . God only knows how much more complicated actually making a payment would be with so many companies involved (credit cards, accounts, pin/password etc etc)...thankfully EVEZY sort that out for me
3. Typically with all IT (I work in IT which helped), there are no standards (maps to talk to networks, charge points to talk to network providers, cars to talk to maps etc etc)...so for the moment, its all a complete guess as to whether what you are seeing (or being told) is accurate, out of date, incomplete
I am sticking with it (relying on home charging 99%), but unless these issues are resolved, there will be zero uptake in the main population.....
I have been running a Zoe from EVEZY for about 6 months, and overall, I'm impressed with both the car and the hire company.
EVEZY give you free charging at Polar stations with a Polar card which comes with the car.
Thought I would push the boat out and set off on a journey where I knew I didnt have enough charge left to get me there, but where various maps indicated lots of charging places along the way...yes, I like a bit of range anxiety :-)
Left Heathrow T5 heading towards Portsmouth
1. Used ZAP MAP on the Iphone - indicates charge points which I discovered dont exist (eg. Royal Hollaway University campus) or which are 'private' but doesnt tell you that they are private (Hox Park campus). ...25 miles wasted in total
2. I called Phone Polar Plus, and they say dont trust 3rd party map apps as they are more interested in telling you how many charge points exist, not whether you can actually access them
3. Then Polar call centre (which may or may not be the same as Charge Master, and may or may not be owned by BP, depending on which web site, app or call centre you speak to) said go to Runnymeade Hotel and use the Charge Master charge point......they had a successful charge previously that day, and was currently available......arrived and charge point had "sorry this charge point is unavailable" on screen....gave Polar call centre a hard time and they tried rebooting the machine, still no luck...admitted it should have known this point was not working...another 15 miles wasted
4. Now getting a raised heartbeat.....tried with Polar Plus map on Iphone (very limited information)...found a charge point at VMWARE offices (another 10 miles or whatever), buzzed at the entrance and was let in...available spaces, correct connector, and Polar Plus card interface....nice quick charge....HOORAY
So in summary, this is not ready for prime time;
1. Maps are out of date (locations and charge points working/not working status), dont give you full information (public/private, behind a barrier, hours of access), and give you postcodes which are significantly inaccurate to the point you cannot find the charge point when you get to the post code location...the map included in the ZOE infotainment system is so bad, I gave up within an hour of taking delivery of the car (e.g. it wont filter networks which you are a member of, and is completely out of date). Google and Iphone maps are similarly inconsistent (in conflict) and out of date. I ended up finding a charge point by using 3 maps and selecting a location which was the same "2 out of 3" cases
2. There are too many network companies (polar, charge master, BP, ecotricity, instavolt, geniepoint, Podpoint, tesla, etc etc etc) which makes it impossible to know which charge points you can use from your membership . God only knows how much more complicated actually making a payment would be with so many companies involved (credit cards, accounts, pin/password etc etc)...thankfully EVEZY sort that out for me
3. Typically with all IT (I work in IT which helped), there are no standards (maps to talk to networks, charge points to talk to network providers, cars to talk to maps etc etc)...so for the moment, its all a complete guess as to whether what you are seeing (or being told) is accurate, out of date, incomplete
I am sticking with it (relying on home charging 99%), but unless these issues are resolved, there will be zero uptake in the main population.....
Unless you have a Tesla, the charging network is terrible.
i3 owner here. Did an 800 mile round trip to Derbyshire from the Highlands in November. Hoped for the best but planned for the worst. For cross-country trips it seems like you need a Plan A, B and C for each recharging stop. Like you, we found chargers didn't work when ZapMap said they were serviceable. For one stop we had to resort to Plan C which is no fun when you're on 12% battery capacity and the nearest charger is 20 miles away.... with no real confidence that C would work either.
Had to queue a few times as well but that was no real hardship as we didn't have deadlines to meet. Found Instavolt and Shell Recharge to be the most reliable recharging options.
The EV revolution isn't going to happen any time soon unless the present flaky network improves in both coverage and reliability, dramatically.
i3 owner here. Did an 800 mile round trip to Derbyshire from the Highlands in November. Hoped for the best but planned for the worst. For cross-country trips it seems like you need a Plan A, B and C for each recharging stop. Like you, we found chargers didn't work when ZapMap said they were serviceable. For one stop we had to resort to Plan C which is no fun when you're on 12% battery capacity and the nearest charger is 20 miles away.... with no real confidence that C would work either.
Had to queue a few times as well but that was no real hardship as we didn't have deadlines to meet. Found Instavolt and Shell Recharge to be the most reliable recharging options.
The EV revolution isn't going to happen any time soon unless the present flaky network improves in both coverage and reliability, dramatically.
Yes, I think that it is clear that, unless you buy a Tesla, the charging infrastructure is way short of what is required for a car you do long distances in. But even looking at the map of Tesla Superchargers, there are huge areas without one of them either.
This is why I'm ordering a PHEV. Hopefully, the charging infrastructure will be ready to support EVs in 4 years' time.
This is why I'm ordering a PHEV. Hopefully, the charging infrastructure will be ready to support EVs in 4 years' time.
tuscan_raider said:
4. Now getting a raised heartbeat.....tried with Polar Plus map on Iphone (very limited information)...found a charge point at VMWARE offices (another 10 miles or whatever), buzzed at the entrance and was let in...available spaces, correct connector, and Polar Plus card interface....nice quick charge....HOORAY
Did you play the "I'm in IT" card or would they have let anyone in? 
I've mentioned having an EV to my missus and she now delights in telling me there's never any space at the charging points where she goes shopping. The fact that that's 4 miles away and she'd never need to use public charging is lost on her.
Did you fixate on only using Polar though, for the free juice, as there will be other points you could have used from different providers, though you will of course have to cough up for them using your debit card. The rules are changing to mandate membership restrictions are loosened and there is open access, though maybe at a different cost possibly. Just a splash and dash at one of these may have been enough to let you seek out a working Polar charge station.
HAL 9000 said:
Did you fixate on only using Polar though, for the free juice, as there will be other points you could have used from different providers, though you will of course have to cough up for them using your debit card. The rules are changing to mandate membership restrictions are loosened and there is open access, though maybe at a different cost possibly. Just a splash and dash at one of these may have been enough to let you seek out a working Polar charge station.
Yes I did.You raise a good point. I could have tried a different network which requires payment, but I was nervous that I would have rocked up, then had to "register" or some such rubbish (download yet another app, remember yet another password, etc etc).....if it was a case of 'plug in an swipe' then that would be OK, but I just dont know where that would be possible.
Mandatory open access across all networks would be a big plus (similar concept to mobile phone networks sharing access)....if not prohibitively expensive, as you highlight
Totally agree with the OP. Long time EV owner here, 8 years now. Ditched all the cards, apps etc ages ago and just charge at home. I’ve given up taking take the zero-emissions vehicle on any round trips further than I can do on a single charge and use a petrol powered one instead.
The charging infrastructure in UK is a joke. I think there are even fewer in our locality now than there were a few years ago since NCP took them out of of two local multi-storeys recently. Shell demolished and rebuilt a nearby fuel station last year. You would have thought it a good opportunity to install charge points.....no chance.
Until, somehow, the Government ensures that an EV driver can set off on a long journey, in any weather, without fretting about actually getting to the destination, EV uptake will be largely restricted to people like me, lucky enough to have a driveway, the funds to run two vehicles and doing local trips only.
The charging infrastructure in UK is a joke. I think there are even fewer in our locality now than there were a few years ago since NCP took them out of of two local multi-storeys recently. Shell demolished and rebuilt a nearby fuel station last year. You would have thought it a good opportunity to install charge points.....no chance.
Until, somehow, the Government ensures that an EV driver can set off on a long journey, in any weather, without fretting about actually getting to the destination, EV uptake will be largely restricted to people like me, lucky enough to have a driveway, the funds to run two vehicles and doing local trips only.
Edited by Jaaws on Sunday 12th January 16:48
Jaaws said:
Totally agree with the OP. Long time EV owner here, 8 years now. Ditched all the cards, apps etc ages ago and just charge at home. I’ve given up taking take the zero-emissions vehicle on any round trips further than I can do on a single charge and use a petrol powered one instead.
The charging infrastructure in UK is a joke. I think there are even fewer in our locality now than there were a few years ago since NCP took them out of of two local multi-storeys recently. Shell demolished and rebuilt a nearby fuel station last year. You would have thought it a good opportunity to install charge points.....no chance.
Until, somehow, the Government ensures that an EV driver can set off on a long journey, in any weather, without fretting about actually getting to the destination, EV uptake will be largely restricted to people like me, lucky enough to have a driveway, the funds to run two vehicles and doing local trips only.
Quite likely the local power grid didn't have the capacity to support any sort of quick charger at that locationThe charging infrastructure in UK is a joke. I think there are even fewer in our locality now than there were a few years ago since NCP took them out of of two local multi-storeys recently. Shell demolished and rebuilt a nearby fuel station last year. You would have thought it a good opportunity to install charge points.....no chance.
Until, somehow, the Government ensures that an EV driver can set off on a long journey, in any weather, without fretting about actually getting to the destination, EV uptake will be largely restricted to people like me, lucky enough to have a driveway, the funds to run two vehicles and doing local trips only.
Edited by Jaaws on Sunday 12th January 16:48
tuscan_raider said:
HAL 9000 said:
Did you fixate on only using Polar though, for the free juice, as there will be other points you could have used from different providers, though you will of course have to cough up for them using your debit card. The rules are changing to mandate membership restrictions are loosened and there is open access, though maybe at a different cost possibly. Just a splash and dash at one of these may have been enough to let you seek out a working Polar charge station.
Yes I did.You raise a good point. I could have tried a different network which requires payment, but I was nervous that I would have rocked up, then had to "register" or some such rubbish (download yet another app, remember yet another password, etc etc).....if it was a case of 'plug in an swipe' then that would be OK, but I just dont know where that would be possible.
Mandatory open access across all networks would be a big plus (similar concept to mobile phone networks sharing access)....if not prohibitively expensive, as you highlight
Labour missed a trick here with their nationalise everything plan....what they should have said was they would nationalise a U.K. charge infrastructure. Of course there is the “government” + “IT projects” black hole to navigate, but surely that would do more for meeting their self imposed climate targets than offering a couple of grand off some cars.
Does this sound like a plausible idea or am I being naive?
Does this sound like a plausible idea or am I being naive?
Otispunkmeyer said:
Labour missed a trick here with their nationalise everything plan....what they should have said was they would nationalise a U.K. charge infrastructure. Of course there is the “government” + “IT projects” black hole to navigate, but surely that would do more for meeting their self imposed climate targets than offering a couple of grand off some cars.
Does this sound like a plausible idea or am I being naive?
I don't think that Labour missed a trick because I don't think there were many votes to be won by proposing to build the charge infrastructure. In my view, it is best to keep governments out of this kind of infrastructure project, but where government can play a part is by introducing incentives for the private sector to invest in the infrastructure and regulation supporting the build-out. Regulation might compel power grid companies to give easier access to the power grid for new chargers, or to introduce planning requirements for new parking areas to include chargers.Does this sound like a plausible idea or am I being naive?
Unless you don't venture out of urban areas I don't see how an electric car can be feasible for anything but leisure driving.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on...
FeelingLucky said:
How can it be, that at the same time the anti-Tesla clique are telling us the Super Charger Network is no biggie and not a USP, actual EV drivers tell the exact opposite story, and long for a network the equal of Tesla's.
Genuine question.
Looking at the traffic jams over the holidays in the USA for Tesla superchargers as the uptake of electric cars increases then so will massive (50+) queuing incidents at charges like, this the video is mind boggling.Genuine question.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on...
untakenname said:
Unless you don't venture out of urban areas I don't see how an electric car can be feasible for anything but leisure driving.
Yes and No.It depends on your usage and buying an EV with enough range for your needs.
Remember the UK is tiny, so distances between destinations isn't big, but congestion means travel times are long.
I've had our base spec Model X for coming up to 3 years and 45k miles - so 15K miles per PA, nearly double national average. Its our main family car, range wise it'll do around 200 miles at 70mph, a bit less in winter, more in summer.
There was big range EVs available, but when I looked at out journey profiles I didn't see the point of paying for more range than what we would use 99% of the time.
As an result I charge our car at a slow charger usually at home/destination. The numbers below are pulled directly from the car, the AC charging is slow home/destination charging and the DC rapid charging.
For our usage pattern it would appear that we only use public rapid chargers 6% of the time we have owned the car. 100% of those rapid charging sessions have been at Tesla Superchargers which have been 100% reliable, so our EV ownership experience is very different from what the OP described.
OP is 100% correct, public EV charging is a pain. If you are doing massive road trips outside the range of your EV than life isn't going to be fun even in a Tesla. But for most UK families a 200mile real range EV is fine.......Providing you can access a reliable fast charging network for those family holidays/road trips, and that is where Tesla is in a different league.
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 13th January 06:02
As a fellow Evezy person, I think it's easy to underestimate the psychological barrier the free Polar gives you... it makes you so motivated not to find other chargers. We go between North and South for our big trips and there's a LOT of chargers on the Derby/Birmingham/Northampton corridors. I think if I wasn't transfixed on Polar, I would always have a rapid to use and it would be quicker, and less stressful. But I like my free...
As everyone says I always plan a A, B, and C charger so if the first one is out I just trek on to the next one on my route. This is easier when travelling with someone else who can do that on the fly... but there's no doubt this can add 30 mins to your journey each time.
We are very lucky to only travel for leisure and we have a dog who can sit still in a car for 5 hours without much complaining but some people just might not have the luxury of time on their hands, kids, dogs that get bored, angry partners, you name it.
The network's biggest problem is not shortage of chargers IMHO... it is that charger status is unreliable. I came across a broken charger - firstly, polar took FIFTEEN minutes to pick up the phone, then wanted me to hangup whilst it rebooted (you guessed it, another fifteen minutes to call back when it didn't work after that). Fine, Polar didn't know it was broken, so I might not expect it on the map... but then I told them it was broken and the status on the map didn't change.
I actually still don't mind it... I never enjoyed the splash and dash nature of petrol stations, I like taking breaks when I'm driving, so the charging stops can be quite nice. But I'm not sure how average joe would do long journeys.
However, when we're talking about just pure out and back journeys from home on a 200 mile range car, which are for most people <60 miles in the UK, EVs can't be beaten for convenience and cost.
As everyone says I always plan a A, B, and C charger so if the first one is out I just trek on to the next one on my route. This is easier when travelling with someone else who can do that on the fly... but there's no doubt this can add 30 mins to your journey each time.
We are very lucky to only travel for leisure and we have a dog who can sit still in a car for 5 hours without much complaining but some people just might not have the luxury of time on their hands, kids, dogs that get bored, angry partners, you name it.
The network's biggest problem is not shortage of chargers IMHO... it is that charger status is unreliable. I came across a broken charger - firstly, polar took FIFTEEN minutes to pick up the phone, then wanted me to hangup whilst it rebooted (you guessed it, another fifteen minutes to call back when it didn't work after that). Fine, Polar didn't know it was broken, so I might not expect it on the map... but then I told them it was broken and the status on the map didn't change.
I actually still don't mind it... I never enjoyed the splash and dash nature of petrol stations, I like taking breaks when I'm driving, so the charging stops can be quite nice. But I'm not sure how average joe would do long journeys.
However, when we're talking about just pure out and back journeys from home on a 200 mile range car, which are for most people <60 miles in the UK, EVs can't be beaten for convenience and cost.
untakenname said:
Unless you don't venture out of urban areas I don't see how an electric car can be feasible for anything but leisure driving.
Really?Almost everyone I know who owns a Tesla does over 30k km/year. I do 40k km myself, and it suits my needs perfectly.
I drive ~300km/day, plug it in at home and charge it overnight (takes 5h).
I've almost never need Superchargers (used them once or twice just because I felt like it) and I've used destination charging only a handful times as well.
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