How long have we got ??
Discussion
Mouse Rat said:
Tesla chargers. Using Tesla as an example. Around the UK you will see banks of super chargers installed at a services stations and such like. We might think, great, 12 Tesla can plug in and charge up in 30 minutes.
No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
Why talk such complete and utter BS?No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
Super chargers are paired. Each pair will share 120kW. At no point is anyone getting limited to 7kw by the charge station or by the incoming supply.
V3 stations are even faster and don't split.
Evanivitch said:
Mouse Rat said:
Tesla chargers. Using Tesla as an example. Around the UK you will see banks of super chargers installed at a services stations and such like. We might think, great, 12 Tesla can plug in and charge up in 30 minutes.
No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
Why talk such complete and utter BS?No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
Super chargers are paired. Each pair will share 120kW. At no point is anyone getting limited to 7kw by the charge station or by the incoming supply.
V3 stations are even faster and don't split.
And that's in the USA where Tesla has rolled out a very good infrastructure network, but when demand overpowers supply?
In the UK it will be even worse because non Tesla power charging seems to be really really crap, compared to Tesla which is fine for the UK
AT THE MOMENT.
If we all go electric the UK will be badly equipped to sort it out, like Europe will be.
It's all well and good the governments forcing cars to be electric to save the planet, but they are doing it too fast.
The technology should lead politicians thinking, not the other way around. Setting impossible target, both on the cars and the charging infrestructure.
If The EU wants to spend money on EV they should subsidise small city cars and the sub mini class above that. But instead small cars are penalised and heavy SUVs are favoured.
GO FIGURE.
Edited by Gandahar on Friday 24th January 20:33
Gandahar said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7755753/C...
And that's in the USA where Tesla has rolled out a very good infrastructure network, but when demand overpowers supply?
In the UK it will be even worse because non Tesla power charging seems to be really really crap, compared to Tesla which is fine for the UK
AT THE MOMENT.
If we all go electric the UK will be badly equipped to sort it out, like Europe will be.
It's all well and good the governments forcing cars to be electric to save the planet, but they are doing it too fast.
The technology should lead politicians thinking, not the other way around. Setting impossible target, both on the cars and the charging infrestructure.
If The EU wants to spend money on EV they should subsidise small city cars and the sub mini class above that. But instead small cars are penalised and heavy SUVs are favoured.
GO FIGURE.
Why is it when someone posts a Daily Fail link you just know they can't make a valid point?And that's in the USA where Tesla has rolled out a very good infrastructure network, but when demand overpowers supply?
In the UK it will be even worse because non Tesla power charging seems to be really really crap, compared to Tesla which is fine for the UK
AT THE MOMENT.
If we all go electric the UK will be badly equipped to sort it out, like Europe will be.
It's all well and good the governments forcing cars to be electric to save the planet, but they are doing it too fast.
The technology should lead politicians thinking, not the other way around. Setting impossible target, both on the cars and the charging infrestructure.
If The EU wants to spend money on EV they should subsidise small city cars and the sub mini class above that. But instead small cars are penalised and heavy SUVs are favoured.
GO FIGURE.
Edited by Gandahar on Friday 24th January 20:33
Let me simplify. If 2 people use a pair'd V2 Supercharger, their maximum charge rate will have. It does not continue to halve because other people are using the other stations.
Evanivitch said:
Mouse Rat said:
Tesla chargers. Using Tesla as an example. Around the UK you will see banks of super chargers installed at a services stations and such like. We might think, great, 12 Tesla can plug in and charge up in 30 minutes.
No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
Why talk such complete and utter BS?No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
Super chargers are paired. Each pair will share 120kW. At no point is anyone getting limited to 7kw by the charge station or by the incoming supply.
V3 stations are even faster and don't split.
The incoming electrical supply limits the total peak power that a group of chargers can produce at one time (Tesla's or anyone else's). I know from experience as part of my Job is designing power infrastructure for electric car charging
Mouse Rat said:
I don't think you understood the point of my post.
The incoming electrical supply limits the total peak power that a group of chargers can produce at one time (Tesla's or anyone else's). I know from experience as part of my Job is designing power infrastructure for electric car charging
Then you would know Tesla use huge banks of batteries to overcome this very issue.The incoming electrical supply limits the total peak power that a group of chargers can produce at one time (Tesla's or anyone else's). I know from experience as part of my Job is designing power infrastructure for electric car charging
Service station supplies vary. Sometimes 100A or 630A local supplies are available depending on the charger location. One of the recent charger locations only had 63A available 3phase supplying 4no dual 22kW poles.
Ref Tesla battery storage, I've only seen the Powerwall range which is more for domestic application. But yes there are battery and hydrogen solutions to overcome this.
Ref Tesla battery storage, I've only seen the Powerwall range which is more for domestic application. But yes there are battery and hydrogen solutions to overcome this.
Mouse Rat said:
Ref Tesla battery storage, I've only seen the Powerwall range which is more for domestic application. But yes there are battery and hydrogen solutions to overcome this.
Then why did you post all that inaccurate information up there ^ then about how Tesla supercharging works?Not yet being a EV owner, it stupidly thought you could use any charger and pay with a bank card like when you buy anything else.
So a few quick question for the EV experts out there-
How many different types of charge sockets are there?
How many different charging companies are there?
Why do you have to use an app? Why can’t you just use cash?
Is there any plans in place to force everyone to use the same sockets/ systems in the future?
So a few quick question for the EV experts out there-
How many different types of charge sockets are there?
How many different charging companies are there?
Why do you have to use an app? Why can’t you just use cash?
Is there any plans in place to force everyone to use the same sockets/ systems in the future?
In effect CCS is the standard rapid charging connector now. Of the new electric cars on sale with rapid charging only the Leaf persists with Chademo. However there is a long tail of older cars to support, hence many rapid chargers having those two standards and the “fast AC” that previous Zoes used. Ionity are only putting in CCS. Instavolt only CCS and Chademo. Given there’s 4 or more types of liquid fuel to choose from at the petrol station it’s not really a big problem.
Almost everything uses the same type 2 connector for home/slower charging but for public charging you just use the lead that came with car to plug into a standard socket at the charger end.
Lots let you charge with just a contactless bank card - instavolt always have, polar are busy retrofitting, all new ones are required to. Again, long tail of older units that some operators are less bothered about dealing with.
Almost everything uses the same type 2 connector for home/slower charging but for public charging you just use the lead that came with car to plug into a standard socket at the charger end.
Lots let you charge with just a contactless bank card - instavolt always have, polar are busy retrofitting, all new ones are required to. Again, long tail of older units that some operators are less bothered about dealing with.
jjwilde said:
Mouse Rat said:
Ref Tesla battery storage, I've only seen the Powerwall range which is more for domestic application. But yes there are battery and hydrogen solutions to overcome this.
Then why did you post all that inaccurate information up there ^ then about how Tesla supercharging works?All car chargers are limited by the electrical supply, including Tesla chargers. This isn't a charger design problem but our infrastructure
Yes there are industrial battery and Hydrogen solutions (which we have installed) but this comes are a very high cost.
Mouse Rat said:
jjwilde said:
Mouse Rat said:
Ref Tesla battery storage, I've only seen the Powerwall range which is more for domestic application. But yes there are battery and hydrogen solutions to overcome this.
Then why did you post all that inaccurate information up there ^ then about how Tesla supercharging works?All car chargers are limited by the electrical supply, including Tesla chargers. This isn't a charger design problem but our infrastructure
Yes there are industrial battery and Hydrogen solutions (which we have installed) but this comes are a very high cost.
jjwilde said:
Tesla market value passes Volkswagen to hit $100bn
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51214824
Who's the clown now?
Me, who invested in Tesla and is now taking a year out to travel based on their success... or you... a troll on this thread?
And yes, I intend to post photos of me enjoying my year out just to troll you, you clown
Possibly not the least biased Fanboi on here!https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51214824
Who's the clown now?
Me, who invested in Tesla and is now taking a year out to travel based on their success... or you... a troll on this thread?
And yes, I intend to post photos of me enjoying my year out just to troll you, you clown
Mouse Rat said:
Eh...what inaccurate information?
All car chargers are limited by the electrical supply, including Tesla chargers. This isn't a charger design problem but our infrastructure
Yes there are industrial battery and Hydrogen solutions (which we have installed) but this comes are a very high cost.
This bit.All car chargers are limited by the electrical supply, including Tesla chargers. This isn't a charger design problem but our infrastructure
Yes there are industrial battery and Hydrogen solutions (which we have installed) but this comes are a very high cost.
Mouse Rat said:
Tesla chargers. Using Tesla as an example. Around the UK you will see banks of super chargers installed at a services stations and such like. We might think, great, 12 Tesla can plug in and charge up in 30 minutes.
No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
This isn't how Tesla Superchargers work. Full stop. It's utter BS to say that because you think you have some knowledge of the incoming power supply. But you wouldn't be the first "expert" on PH to believe his own reality.No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
Evanivitch said:
This isn't how Tesla Superchargers work. Full stop. It's utter BS to say that because you think you have some knowledge of the incoming power supply. But you wouldn't be the first "expert" on PH to believe his own reality.
So how do superchargers output more than is going in - if Elon can manage that trick on a permanent basis, he's solved all the worlds energy problems!Evanivitch said:
Mouse Rat said:
Eh...what inaccurate information?
All car chargers are limited by the electrical supply, including Tesla chargers. This isn't a charger design problem but our infrastructure
Yes there are industrial battery and Hydrogen solutions (which we have installed) but this comes are a very high cost.
This bit.All car chargers are limited by the electrical supply, including Tesla chargers. This isn't a charger design problem but our infrastructure
Yes there are industrial battery and Hydrogen solutions (which we have installed) but this comes are a very high cost.
Mouse Rat said:
Tesla chargers. Using Tesla as an example. Around the UK you will see banks of super chargers installed at a services stations and such like. We might think, great, 12 Tesla can plug in and charge up in 30 minutes.
No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
This isn't how Tesla Superchargers work. Full stop. It's utter BS to say that because you think you have some knowledge of the incoming power supply. But you wouldn't be the first "expert" on PH to believe his own reality.No.
While 1 or 2 cars maybe able to charge at 100kW plus, a dozen cars charging at once would limit the charging capacity to 22kW, 15kW or maybe 7kW per vehicle.
So then Einstein, if there are 10no dual 150kW superchargers installed of a 630A 3phase supply. 20 Tesla's plug in to charge from low battery. How much kW will each charger kick out?
Gojira said:
So how do superchargers output more than is going in - if Elon can manage that trick on a permanent basis, he's solved all the worlds energy problems!
By a combination of using battery buffers, pairing (on V2) and the simple fact that batteries won't all accept the maximum available charge rate due to thermal limitations.Mouse Rat's incorrect statement that if you see a full rack of Tesla's on a Supercharger they'll be dramatically reduced in charge rate is wrong in all real world scenarios.
Even if each supercharger is subject to several consecutive charges, the buffer system will charge as the battery tapers the charge rate due to thermal limitations.
Evanivitch said:
Gojira said:
So how do superchargers output more than is going in - if Elon can manage that trick on a permanent basis, he's solved all the worlds energy problems!
By a combination of using battery buffers, pairing (on V2) and the simple fact that batteries won't all accept the maximum available charge rate due to thermal limitations.Mouse Rat's incorrect statement that if you see a full rack of Tesla's on a Supercharger they'll be dramatically reduced in charge rate is wrong in all real world scenarios.
Even if each supercharger is subject to several consecutive charges, the buffer system will charge as the battery tapers the charge rate due to thermal limitations.
If a Supercharger site can provide more output power over say, a week, than the input feed can supply, Tesla have solved the worlds energy problems...
The power to recharge the Supercharger batteries still has to come down the feed to the site!
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff