Discussion
The concern would be impact on range.
If I’m within 20 miles of flat (which will happen on my commute in the winter), I’ll have 4KW (ish) left. I reckon in serious cold I need 800W to keep the cabin at ~20 degrees. That’s 5 hours.
Probably fine. And with proper batteries rather than the AA’s I have, almost certainly not a problem.
The conventional car will burn a lot of fuel heating the block up, but once hot I can heat the cabin without running the engine for a while.
It’s similar to “the EV on max output will kill the battery in ~20 minutes”. True. But so will a internal combustion on full power.
If I’m within 20 miles of flat (which will happen on my commute in the winter), I’ll have 4KW (ish) left. I reckon in serious cold I need 800W to keep the cabin at ~20 degrees. That’s 5 hours.
Probably fine. And with proper batteries rather than the AA’s I have, almost certainly not a problem.
The conventional car will burn a lot of fuel heating the block up, but once hot I can heat the cabin without running the engine for a while.
It’s similar to “the EV on max output will kill the battery in ~20 minutes”. True. But so will a internal combustion on full power.
In a jam air flow through the car and certainly over it is reduced so less heat taken away and heater power would reduce compared to motoring along.
My Leaf's heater is maybe 1.5KW on the move but 0.5KW stationary. AC in summer throttles back quickly so is only 0.5KW at 16 deg set and 25 outside motoring. I wonder if I can duct the cold air out of it into the house on a hot day....
I have been in a long jam though with no energy being consumed on the display either motor or heater (climate) but the battery bar gauge dropped surprisingly.
In cold climates EVs should perhaps still have fuel catalytic heaters like lorry cabs have or something, and carry a gallon of fuel.
My Leaf's heater is maybe 1.5KW on the move but 0.5KW stationary. AC in summer throttles back quickly so is only 0.5KW at 16 deg set and 25 outside motoring. I wonder if I can duct the cold air out of it into the house on a hot day....
I have been in a long jam though with no energy being consumed on the display either motor or heater (climate) but the battery bar gauge dropped surprisingly.
In cold climates EVs should perhaps still have fuel catalytic heaters like lorry cabs have or something, and carry a gallon of fuel.
granada203028 said:
In cold climates EVs should perhaps still have fuel catalytic heaters like lorry cabs have or something, and carry a gallon of fuel.
I was wondering if this would be a solution for retrofitting EV systems on classic cars. Something with a small gas bottle with an auto igniting burner that was flued out the car. Simple case of getting the bottle changed when it is out.I have noticed a lot of electric cars come with heated seats as standard including in the back. This is quite a good idea as it gets some heat into you without using much power.
Another part of the solution would be to improve insulation. Heating has just been a by-product of internal combustion engines, so is just designed to flow through the car. Do EVs recirculate the air even when heating?
I keep an old tin can, half a dozen tea lights and a box of matches in my car, which should I get trapped in snow, will provide enough heat to keep my car warm. It's mandated equipment in many countries. Alas in 40 years of driving, I have never got stuck overnight in a drift, so unable to benefit from my foresight. Looking at the original post, I for one am looking forward to my first EV if queues like this are the outcome. Imagine how smug I am going to be.
Patrick magooagain said:
InitialDave said:
I've been stuck for a couple of hours in a big jam in an EV. It's no worse than a petrol car. Better, in fact, as running the heating or AC only uses enough power to do that one task, rather than needing the engine going to generate heat or run the compressor.
Stop reading/believing/sharing inane s
te written by people who don't know what they're talking about.
I would like to see proof of this please.Stop reading/believing/sharing inane s
te written by people who don't know what they're talking about.The maths is very simple.
In an ICE you have to run the engine to create heat. In an EV you just convert the energy.
Even better if the cars heating system is a heat pump it effectively works at over 100% efficiency (more heat produced than energy consumed)
Edited by 98elise on Saturday 15th February 16:52
98elise said:
Even better if the cars heating system is a heat pump it effectively works at over 100% efficiency (more heat produced than energy consumed)
I know what you mean, but for the pedants among us (me), thermodynamics still holds. This is not a perpetual motion machine (unsurprisingly)I avoided an early leaf because the heater was not a heat pump and really hurt range in the winter.
Simpo Two said:
mcm87 said:
Even a modest car battery could run our house for days.
Are you allowing for the step up to 240V? Raise the voltage and suddenly you need a shedload more current, thanks to Mr Ohm.Regardless the battery capacity (energy) is in kWh. A 100kWh battery can supply 1kW of power (heat) continuously for 4 days. If the car has a heat pump with a high COP it could be many times that.
Mr E said:
98elise said:
Even better if the cars heating system is a heat pump it effectively works at over 100% efficiency (more heat produced than energy consumed)
I know what you mean, but for the pedants among us (me), thermodynamics still holds. This is not a perpetual motion machine (unsurprisingly)I avoided an early leaf because the heater was not a heat pump and really hurt range in the winter.
It's undeniable thought that you get more heat than energy consumed, it's just that the energy has been used to recover more energy (heat,) from the atmosphere.
Simpo Two said:
mcm87 said:
Even a modest car battery could run our house for days.
Are you allowing for the step up to 240V? Raise the voltage and suddenly you need a shedload more current, thanks to Mr Ohm.When you were at school did anyone ever show you the following equation:
P = V * I
Most EV's have nominal battery voltages of around 350 to 450 Volts. The peak voltage of our 240Vrms AC mains supply is 340V. That is not a co-incidence.....
As usual PH delivered it's full range responses , some educational, some very informative, the average range of insults .
Personally I have my doubts about the uptake of EVs , many have very little confidence over range and charging times , the time involved to provide a suitable infrastructure to support EVs looks very doubtful under the present systems .
It probably will have no effect on me as ,because of health reasons, my driving life is coming to an end a bit quicker than I expected.
I had thought that hydrogen would have been the alternative fuel for the future but Electric does seem to be the way forward , no doubt the reservations of much of the public will be overcome. Costs are coming down and battery technology is advancing at a fair pace . Charging is the stumbling block and shall be for many years yet .
There is a growing element out in society that wants to see us out of our cars and onto or into public transport. This is fine in towns and cities but out in the sticks it simply doesn’t work and needs a huge amount of investment and a co-ordination shake up .
I freely admit that I am not fully up to date on the latest electric vehicles as I shall never own one , but I am cynical enough to question much of what it spouted by those with a vested intrest .
Personally I have my doubts about the uptake of EVs , many have very little confidence over range and charging times , the time involved to provide a suitable infrastructure to support EVs looks very doubtful under the present systems .
It probably will have no effect on me as ,because of health reasons, my driving life is coming to an end a bit quicker than I expected.
I had thought that hydrogen would have been the alternative fuel for the future but Electric does seem to be the way forward , no doubt the reservations of much of the public will be overcome. Costs are coming down and battery technology is advancing at a fair pace . Charging is the stumbling block and shall be for many years yet .
There is a growing element out in society that wants to see us out of our cars and onto or into public transport. This is fine in towns and cities but out in the sticks it simply doesn’t work and needs a huge amount of investment and a co-ordination shake up .
I freely admit that I am not fully up to date on the latest electric vehicles as I shall never own one , but I am cynical enough to question much of what it spouted by those with a vested intrest .
Edited by grumpy52 on Saturday 15th February 17:01
grumpy52 said:
I freely admit that I am not fully up to date on the latest electric vehicles as I shall never own one , but I am cynical enough to question much of what it spouted by those with a vested intrest .
You need to flip your cynicism. Who has more vested interest in seeing electric cars fails, the up and coming companies like Tesla with essentially nothing to loss, or the establishment who will do everything possible to keep our world addicted to carbon.If you think about it the ramifications of the world needing less fossil fuels will have a ripple effect far beyond how people get from A to B in the UK, the entire worls political landscape would look very different if fossil fuels became a worthless asset.
There are many who will do everything possible to keep the status quo, your opening post is a good reflection of the propaganda aimed at keeping things the same.
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