Discussion
SWoll said:
I assume you then sit there in a freezing cold car with the engine running whilst the windows defrost? I remember it well, such fun. 
Even then it still takes a good 10 minutes of driving to get the engine fully warmed up so you can use it's full performance.Short trips in an ICE car are just annoying now.
Our last petrol-powered car will soon be gone. I enjoyed it, but there's now a better option.
SWoll said:
I assume you then sit there in a freezing cold car with the engine running whilst the windows defrost? I remember it well, such fun.
1.9TDi PD engine was a pain for this, took takes to warm up at idle, would take 9 miles from my house to hit temperature, even with a partial radiator block.ruggedscotty said:
we will find a way to do this and it will work. we have to make it work.
Is it not actually too late already??https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51567635
Whilst at the same time people are burning crazy amounts of carbon based fuels to dump snow on mountains for skiing.....Its like someone starting a bon fire in the garden because their hands are cold whilst a ragging fire is burning their house down behind them, you couldn't make this stuff up!!!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51524278
As a species we really don't deserve to be on this planet much longer, our inability to act with any kind of intelligence really is staggering.
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 20th February 06:35
xjay1337 said:
RobDickinson said:
xjay1337 said:
Which are huge issues...........but you ignore them!!!
"Electricity is impossible", man on the internet I grew up in terrace hell, I've lived in many areas of the UK, they all had electricity surprisingly.
You say, with quotations, implying that I said - "electricity is impossible"
It's like arguing with a belligerent child.
You will always be right, even when you're wrong.
98elise said:
How do those area cope with cookers, hobs, tumble drivers, kettles, or electric showers?
The only real issue at this point we have here in Belgium are cities, where a 30% extra load on the network (~ what we need to have everyone switch tomorrow) will be too high a burden. Especially because they usually have the oldest infrastructures.
Remote and rural, as soon as they have electricity, a 30% extra load isn't the biggest burden, especially if the demand is at night, where there's u. And during the day solar can even pick up there if needed.
ruggedscotty said:
Ive read this thread....
Electric cars are coming, no getting away from it. 30 years from now there will be more electric cars on the road than IC engine'd ones. This has to happen. we can no longer rely on petrol/diesel cars for personal transport. Electricity is where it is going and that leaves us with ways to develop the electrical infrastructure, there are a lot of questions about those without drives, ways to allow them to recharge will have to be worked out. Load demand of several chargers going on at night will also have to be managed, I believe that we will see more and more three phase supplies to houses. We will also see houses being fitted with batteries.If these are being charged all the time then the large demand on the utility network can be tempered. Also we will not be recharging from empty all the time, majority of runs being low miles people will be charging up everytime they come home to keep the battery topped up.
we will find a way to do this and it will work. we have to make it work.
very much this ^^^Electric cars are coming, no getting away from it. 30 years from now there will be more electric cars on the road than IC engine'd ones. This has to happen. we can no longer rely on petrol/diesel cars for personal transport. Electricity is where it is going and that leaves us with ways to develop the electrical infrastructure, there are a lot of questions about those without drives, ways to allow them to recharge will have to be worked out. Load demand of several chargers going on at night will also have to be managed, I believe that we will see more and more three phase supplies to houses. We will also see houses being fitted with batteries.If these are being charged all the time then the large demand on the utility network can be tempered. Also we will not be recharging from empty all the time, majority of runs being low miles people will be charging up everytime they come home to keep the battery topped up.
we will find a way to do this and it will work. we have to make it work.
poing said:
Mine is tethered and I got a longer cable to cover the entire drive. I can't say I enjoy the winding it up and emptying the little rubber cover thing on a rainy morning. I would happily pay for an inertia reel cable but for now keeping a small towel in the car to dry my hands is the best option.
Not that using public petrol pumps is any more pleasant!
I fully agree. The point I was, clumsily, making is that there are also silly little non-issues to owning an EV just like ICE (refueling being one of them - albeit in different ways).Not that using public petrol pumps is any more pleasant!
SWoll said:
I assume you then sit there in a freezing cold car with the engine running whilst the windows defrost? I remember it well, such fun.
so you don't de-ice your side windows? I suppose that you could have the car heating up for 20 minutes prior to use which should/would get rid of the bulk of it?An article I read years ago was really telling.
It was a guy, living with a Tesla, who went out to "try" living with an ICE for a day.
So he pretended that the ICE car was the new thing and the EV was the norm.
In short:
It was a guy, living with a Tesla, who went out to "try" living with an ICE for a day.
So he pretended that the ICE car was the new thing and the EV was the norm.
In short:
- Wow, this drives 800km in one go?
- Is it.... broken? It's shaking, smells, hardly responds to input and there's a rattle going on.
- This... "petrol station".... is dirty.
- WOW, FIVE MINUTES TO GET ANOTHER 800km??
- HOW MUCH?!??!
ZesPak said:
An article I read years ago was really telling.
It was a guy, living with a Tesla, who went out to "try" living with an ICE for a day.
So he pretended that the ICE car was the new thing and the EV was the norm.
In short:
You'll upset people with such talk It was a guy, living with a Tesla, who went out to "try" living with an ICE for a day.
So he pretended that the ICE car was the new thing and the EV was the norm.
In short:
- Wow, this drives 800km in one go?
- Is it.... broken? It's shaking, smells, hardly responds to input and there's a rattle going on.
- This... "petrol station".... is dirty.
- WOW, FIVE MINUTES TO GET ANOTHER 800km??
- HOW MUCH?!??!
irocfan said:
I fully agree. The point I was, clumsily, making is that there are also silly little non-issues to owning an EV just like ICE (refueling being one of them - albeit in different ways).
You are entirely correct, it's not a slick experience. I accept it's relatively early days but we've been charging things for a very long time so we should be doing it better.Problems with charging:
1. Not plugging it in properly. I've done this more than once. The plug is in, the light comes on to say it's plugged in. Get in the car in the morning, hasn't charged. Similarly, prior to a software update, the timed charging would fail at random.
2. Public charging. I think unless you own a Tesla or live in a country that embraces the tech it's far more complex than it should be. That will improve but likely only as cost increases.
3. Cables. It's bloody horrible getting wet and dirty hands from a rubber cable in the pissing rain. Public chargers are rarely covered and most driveways are uncovered so you get wet. Then you grab the little rubber cover to put over the plug and it pours freezing water down your crotch.
4. Not visiting petrol stations. Is this a negative? Absolutely! Where else do you get to buy those random chocolate bars that are only sold there?
I currently have an EV and ICE. They are used about the same but replacing the EV will be another EV, I've not even considered anything else. Replacing the ICE? I'm not so sure, it's a Fiesta ST and there isn't an equivalent EV so there is a fair chance it will be something very similar.
irocfan said:
SWoll said:
I assume you then sit there in a freezing cold car with the engine running whilst the windows defrost? I remember it well, such fun.
so you don't de-ice your side windows? I suppose that you could have the car heating up for 20 minutes prior to use which should/would get rid of the bulk of it?One of many reasons I'd struggle to go back to running an ICE daily now.
poing said:
You are entirely correct, it's not a slick experience. I accept it's relatively early days but we've been charging things for a very long time so we should be doing it better.
Problems with charging:
1. Not plugging it in properly. I've done this more than once. The plug is in, the light comes on to say it's plugged in. Get in the car in the morning, hasn't charged. Similarly, prior to a software update, the timed charging would fail at random.
2. Public charging. I think unless you own a Tesla or live in a country that embraces the tech it's far more complex than it should be. That will improve but likely only as cost increases.
3. Cables. It's bloody horrible getting wet and dirty hands from a rubber cable in the pissing rain. Public chargers are rarely covered and most driveways are uncovered so you get wet. Then you grab the little rubber cover to put over the plug and it pours freezing water down your crotch.
4. Not visiting petrol stations. Is this a negative? Absolutely! Where else do you get to buy those random chocolate bars that are only sold there?
I currently have an EV and ICE. They are used about the same but replacing the EV will be another EV, I've not even considered anything else. Replacing the ICE? I'm not so sure, it's a Fiesta ST and there isn't an equivalent EV so there is a fair chance it will be something very similar.
1. Really? 10k in our Kona, the plug has never failed to correctly engage.Problems with charging:
1. Not plugging it in properly. I've done this more than once. The plug is in, the light comes on to say it's plugged in. Get in the car in the morning, hasn't charged. Similarly, prior to a software update, the timed charging would fail at random.
2. Public charging. I think unless you own a Tesla or live in a country that embraces the tech it's far more complex than it should be. That will improve but likely only as cost increases.
3. Cables. It's bloody horrible getting wet and dirty hands from a rubber cable in the pissing rain. Public chargers are rarely covered and most driveways are uncovered so you get wet. Then you grab the little rubber cover to put over the plug and it pours freezing water down your crotch.
4. Not visiting petrol stations. Is this a negative? Absolutely! Where else do you get to buy those random chocolate bars that are only sold there?
I currently have an EV and ICE. They are used about the same but replacing the EV will be another EV, I've not even considered anything else. Replacing the ICE? I'm not so sure, it's a Fiesta ST and there isn't an equivalent EV so there is a fair chance it will be something very similar.
2. Defo. But it is early days. We are lucky that so far we have almost never used public points. Only one we 'had' to, a few we have just to try. But yes, it needs to all get to the levels of Tesla supercharging stations
3. How low exactly is your crotch? Our chargeport is at the front, it takes about 1 minute for me to pop open, unroll the tethered cable and plug in. If it was too wet, Ill run indoors and wait an hour!
4. Absolutely! Sadly, for those who DO have to use a public point, I bet there are far more calories eaten and drunk during those 30+ minute top-ups!
98elise said:
xjay1337 said:
RobDickinson said:
xjay1337 said:
Which are huge issues...........but you ignore them!!!
"Electricity is impossible", man on the internet I grew up in terrace hell, I've lived in many areas of the UK, they all had electricity surprisingly.
You say, with quotations, implying that I said - "electricity is impossible"
It's like arguing with a belligerent child.
You will always be right, even when you're wrong.
jamoor said:
You’re missing road tax, running costs , depreciation on my old car, 50% vat on the lease , vat on tyres, the BIK saving, the fact that I don’t need to draw money and pay tax on it to fuel my car etc etc.
We aren't missing them, you explicitly stated that your previous cars fuel costs have easily covered the lease on your Model 3. Now you are back pedalling and trying to salvage that by adding in additional costs, which still don't end up saving you money. FWIW I'm not anti-EV and I will certainly be getting one at some point (likely when I move house and don't have to park in the road), but I don't understand why you are trying to justify your purchase on the grounds of saving money when it clearly isn't. You clearly like your Model 3 and can afford it so why the need for BS like this to justify your choice?
LimSlip said:
jamoor said:
You’re missing road tax, running costs , depreciation on my old car, 50% vat on the lease , vat on tyres, the BIK saving, the fact that I don’t need to draw money and pay tax on it to fuel my car etc etc.
We aren't missing them, you explicitly stated that your previous cars fuel costs have easily covered the lease on your Model 3. Now you are back pedalling and trying to salvage that by adding in additional costs, which still don't end up saving you money. FWIW I'm not anti-EV and I will certainly be getting one at some point (likely when I move house and don't have to park in the road), but I don't understand why you are trying to justify your purchase on the grounds of saving money when it clearly isn't. You clearly like your Model 3 and can afford it so why the need for BS like this to justify your choice?
There's no BS to justify it, some powerfully built company directors may not even know of the excellent deal that awaits them. It's literally the same if not cheaper to run a brand new model 3 as a powerfully built director with a goatee than to run a 5 year old 3 series.
Have you actually sat down and done the calculations? There is no use case for a 5 year old 3 series,.
Edited by jamoor on Thursday 20th February 13:36
irocfan said:
there is one other factor to mention here - anyone who thinks that EV's will continue to be as cheap as chips to run will be, I suspect, be in for a very rude awakening
Indeed, you have to make hay while the sun shines.In the early adopter period the cars were too expensive
Now the cars are cheaper and the incentives have gotten better to encourage uptake
Then they will remove them as the tech catches on.
irocfan said:
there is one other factor to mention here - anyone who thinks that EV's will continue to be as cheap as chips to run will be, I suspect, be in for a very rude awakening
It's always been the case to make early adopting affordable. As the tech trickles down, so does the cost and the need for tax breaks. Tesla wouldn't have been able to make the Model 3 without that many people buying the Model S, which was over twice as expensive.Also, how do you think they are going to tax the EV's?
Drawn power? Nearly impossible.
The only real future is miles driven (either through black box or via a toll system on the road), and once they introduce that, there's 3 basic options:
- They will make ICE car exempt of this new tax
- They will stop taxing fossil fuels this hard
- ICE vehicles will be taxed on both fuel and miles driven.
Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 20th February 14:24
soupdragon1 said:
irocfan said:
there is one other factor to mention here - anyone who thinks that EV's will continue to be as cheap as chips to run will be, I suspect, be in for a very rude awakening
Not if you generate your own fuel. Easily done.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff