Discussion
irocfan said:
there is one other factor to mention here - anyone who thinks that EV's will continue to be as cheap as chips to run will be, I suspect, be in for a very rude awakening
I’m under no illusions about this, which is why I’ve limited my exposure to future price hikes by simply leasing one for a couple of years. I’ll take advantage of the proposed 0/1/2% BIK for the next 3 years and then re-assess.It will literally pay for itself in fuel and tax savings as another poster claimed earlier, but I am coming from a position of doing 25kpa in an M5.
theboss said:
irocfan said:
there is one other factor to mention here - anyone who thinks that EV's will continue to be as cheap as chips to run will be, I suspect, be in for a very rude awakening
I’m under no illusions about this, which is why I’ve limited my exposure to future price hikes by simply leasing one for a couple of years. I’ll take advantage of the proposed 0/1/2% BIK for the next 3 years and then re-assess.It will literally pay for itself in fuel and tax savings as another poster claimed earlier, but I am coming from a position of doing 25kpa in an M5.
I'm coming from a CLS63 AMG so loving the running costs
This thread is becoming a bit like the winter tyres thread and that is basically summed up by the following camps:
Never tried them and therefore anti (occasionally open minded but usually anti as coming from a position of no real experience)
Tried them and continue to use them based on known benefits.
Tried them but they no longer fit their needs.
(We might as well merge the decisive threads
)
Never tried them and therefore anti (occasionally open minded but usually anti as coming from a position of no real experience)
Tried them and continue to use them based on known benefits.
Tried them but they no longer fit their needs.
(We might as well merge the decisive threads
)MOBB said:
Similar here, leasing for 2 years therough my company, see what happens.
I'm coming from a CLS63 AMG so loving the running costs
How’s that working out?I'm coming from a CLS63 AMG so loving the running costs
I don’t plan to get rid of the M5 just yet. I need to have a backup for longer distance journeys. But I do need a second / family car and one that will predominantly absorb all the local mileage so an EV - with the benefit of being tax free - seems like a good experiment to embark upon.
I have an e-Tron coming in the next week or so. Will be interesting to see how easy it is to live with.
A900ss said:
This thread is becoming a bit like the winter tyres thread and that is basically summed up by the following camps:
Never tried them and therefore anti (occasionally open minded but usually anti as coming from a position of no real experience)
Tried them and continue to use them based on known benefits.
Tried them but they no longer fit their needs.
(We might as well merge the decisive threads ??)
We can have a winter tyres on EV thread next season! I’ll be getting some without any doubt.Never tried them and therefore anti (occasionally open minded but usually anti as coming from a position of no real experience)
Tried them and continue to use them based on known benefits.
Tried them but they no longer fit their needs.
(We might as well merge the decisive threads ??)
I think they'll be cranking up the duties on ICE cars significantly before they start finding ways to apply them to EVs.
Fuel duty has been frozen for what, ten years now? That's basically a subsidy which doesn't fit the way we need to be going, so it can't last forever. To get a further swing towards EVs there may not be more EV carrots being handed out, but there might be more ICE sticks.
Generally duties are applied to things that are seen as "bad" to lessen their use, for going forwards the focus will be on reducing ICE car use. When people were giving up smoking in their thousands, the govt didn't introduce duties on chewing gum to bridge the income deficit. (not a direct comparison for sure, but you get what I mean.)
Fuel duty has been frozen for what, ten years now? That's basically a subsidy which doesn't fit the way we need to be going, so it can't last forever. To get a further swing towards EVs there may not be more EV carrots being handed out, but there might be more ICE sticks.
Generally duties are applied to things that are seen as "bad" to lessen their use, for going forwards the focus will be on reducing ICE car use. When people were giving up smoking in their thousands, the govt didn't introduce duties on chewing gum to bridge the income deficit. (not a direct comparison for sure, but you get what I mean.)
A900ss said:
This thread is becoming a bit like the winter tyres thread and that is basically summed up by the following camps:
Never tried them and therefore anti (occasionally open minded but usually anti as coming from a position of no real experience)
Tried them and continue to use them based on known benefits.
Tried them but they no longer fit their needs.
(We might as well merge the decisive threads)
Not really a correct analogy because Winter tyres don't really change your normal driving habits. Or require billions of pounds of investment. Or any number of things.Never tried them and therefore anti (occasionally open minded but usually anti as coming from a position of no real experience)
Tried them and continue to use them based on known benefits.
Tried them but they no longer fit their needs.
(We might as well merge the decisive threads
)You can in theory put winter tyres on your car all year round (many do!) and while you may find negative handling generally you can still do your same journey types.
theboss said:
MOBB said:
Similar here, leasing for 2 years therough my company, see what happens.
I'm coming from a CLS63 AMG so loving the running costs
How’s that working out?I'm coming from a CLS63 AMG so loving the running costs
I don’t plan to get rid of the M5 just yet. I need to have a backup for longer distance journeys. But I do need a second / family car and one that will predominantly absorb all the local mileage so an EV - with the benefit of being tax free - seems like a good experiment to embark upon.
I have an e-Tron coming in the next week or so. Will be interesting to see how easy it is to live with.
I thought I'd miss the noise and the visceral side of things but I really dont.
I just felt after driving the Model 3 performance, the CLS just felt like a bygone era vehicle - to some thats the appeal of an ICE car, revs, noise, levers and switches but I just prefer what the Tesla provides.
There are of course downsides, well known with Tesla, but I think if I missed the ICE side of things I would get an MX5, Caterham, hot hatch etc as a weekend toy
Edit - probably the biggest thing is the nature of the performance - I also had an F10 M5 before and it was immense, but really it was 80mph plus it shone, as you know beserk over 100mph. I often saw very naughty speeds. The Tesla is insane up to 80mph, merely rapid above that. I now rarely do over 100mph but use the gut wrenching shove at legal speeds.
Edited by MOBB on Thursday 20th February 15:39
Willow1212 said:
I think they'll be cranking up the duties on ICE cars significantly before they start finding ways to apply them to EVs.
Fuel duty has been frozen for what, ten years now? That's basically a subsidy which doesn't fit the way we need to be going, so it can't last forever. To get a further swing towards EVs there may not be more EV carrots being handed out, but there might be more ICE sticks.
Generally duties are applied to things that are seen as "bad" to lessen their use, for going forwards the focus will be on reducing ICE car use. When people were giving up smoking in their thousands, the govt didn't introduce duties on chewing gum to bridge the income deficit. (not a direct comparison for sure, but you get what I mean.)
I actually think the policy is to reduce taxes on EVs rather than increase them on ICE.Fuel duty has been frozen for what, ten years now? That's basically a subsidy which doesn't fit the way we need to be going, so it can't last forever. To get a further swing towards EVs there may not be more EV carrots being handed out, but there might be more ICE sticks.
Generally duties are applied to things that are seen as "bad" to lessen their use, for going forwards the focus will be on reducing ICE car use. When people were giving up smoking in their thousands, the govt didn't introduce duties on chewing gum to bridge the income deficit. (not a direct comparison for sure, but you get what I mean.)
xjay1337 said:
Not really a correct analogy because Winter tyres don't really change your normal driving habits. Or require billions of pounds of investment. Or any number of things.
You can in theory put winter tyres on your car all year round (many do!) and while you may find negative handling generally you can still do your same journey types.
However, it costs a fair chunk for an individual road user to switch to winter tyres (especially if they buy a second set of wheels so they can swap in winter/summer). They're free not to swap to winter tyres, but equally they might want to spend the cash. If many across the country made the change, it would also be well into the millions-if-not-billions for that change.You can in theory put winter tyres on your car all year round (many do!) and while you may find negative handling generally you can still do your same journey types.
What's the difference?
jamoor said:
soupdragon1 said:
irocfan said:
there is one other factor to mention here - anyone who thinks that EV's will continue to be as cheap as chips to run will be, I suspect, be in for a very rude awakening
Not if you generate your own fuel. Easily done.A flat duty will hit some harder than others. Think pensioners who no longer commute - school moms - 2 car households, that type of thing.
They'll need a different solution IMO.
blueacid said:
xjay1337 said:
Not really a correct analogy because Winter tyres don't really change your normal driving habits. Or require billions of pounds of investment. Or any number of things.
You can in theory put winter tyres on your car all year round (many do!) and while you may find negative handling generally you can still do your same journey types.
However, it costs a fair chunk for an individual road user to switch to winter tyres (especially if they buy a second set of wheels so they can swap in winter/summer). They're free not to swap to winter tyres, but equally they might want to spend the cash. If many across the country made the change, it would also be well into the millions-if-not-billions for that change.You can in theory put winter tyres on your car all year round (many do!) and while you may find negative handling generally you can still do your same journey types.
What's the difference?
If I've time later, or a quiet day at work tomorrow, I'll attempt to read the whole thread.
I saw the original post on FB a few weeks back, shared by a friend who's a bit of a petrolhead. IIRC the author lives in Spain now, so no longer a UK resident.
Was wondering if people often get stranded on the motorways, stuck in blizzard conditions? Technicalities aside, has the general advice not been for years to travel with warm clothing, blankets etc? Maybe he's coming over from Spain in shorts and t shirts.
I saw the original post on FB a few weeks back, shared by a friend who's a bit of a petrolhead. IIRC the author lives in Spain now, so no longer a UK resident.
Was wondering if people often get stranded on the motorways, stuck in blizzard conditions? Technicalities aside, has the general advice not been for years to travel with warm clothing, blankets etc? Maybe he's coming over from Spain in shorts and t shirts.
mikeswagon said:
If I've time later, or a quiet day at work tomorrow, I'll attempt to read the whole thread.
I saw the original post on FB a few weeks back, shared by a friend who's a bit of a petrolhead. IIRC the author lives in Spain now, so no longer a UK resident.
Was wondering if people often get stranded on the motorways, stuck in blizzard conditions? Technicalities aside, has the general advice not been for years to travel with warm clothing, blankets etc? Maybe he's coming over from Spain in shorts and t shirts.
Did people on facebook put him right on his made up lies?I saw the original post on FB a few weeks back, shared by a friend who's a bit of a petrolhead. IIRC the author lives in Spain now, so no longer a UK resident.
Was wondering if people often get stranded on the motorways, stuck in blizzard conditions? Technicalities aside, has the general advice not been for years to travel with warm clothing, blankets etc? Maybe he's coming over from Spain in shorts and t shirts.
RobDickinson said:
The cost gap between ice and EV's won't change though.
Yes and we need to pay more for things, pay the true cost of the damage we do to the planet. We have a climate emergency, we really have.We have become so used to the ever increasing material richness of our lives it needs to stop...
So taxation must steer habits.
blueacid said:
xjay1337 said:
Not really a correct analogy because Winter tyres don't really change your normal driving habits. Or require billions of pounds of investment. Or any number of things.
You can in theory put winter tyres on your car all year round (many do!) and while you may find negative handling generally you can still do your same journey types.
However, it costs a fair chunk for an individual road user to switch to winter tyres (especially if they buy a second set of wheels so they can swap in winter/summer). They're free not to swap to winter tyres, but equally they might want to spend the cash. If many across the country made the change, it would also be well into the millions-if-not-billions for that change.You can in theory put winter tyres on your car all year round (many do!) and while you may find negative handling generally you can still do your same journey types.
What's the difference?
blueacid said:
However, it costs a fair chunk for an individual road user to switch to winter tyres (especially if they buy a second set of wheels so they can swap in winter/summer). They're free not to swap to winter tyres, but equally they might want to spend the cash. If many across the country made the change, it would also be well into the millions-if-not-billions for that change.
What's the difference?
Winters are hardly unaffordable - if a set of tyres is too great an outlay for a motorist I’d suggest their priorities are all wrong. Plenty of poor countries in Eastern Europe and the Balkans where wages are a fraction of ours yet every rusting little sWhat's the difference?
tbox has winters fitted.But the comparison between trying a winter tyre compared to a summer tyre, isn't in any way relatable to trying an EV car to an ICE car because fundamentally there are massive changes to the engineering of an EV car v an ICE car as well as the infrastructure to support you moving around.
Winter tyres take the same air that normal tyres do, and take the same time to fit, and inflate - You don't need to go to a special tyre shop to change them for example and you aren't restricted to driving a certain distance with Winter tyres fitted before you need to stop and re-fill them with air for 3 hours.
Winter tyres take the same air that normal tyres do, and take the same time to fit, and inflate - You don't need to go to a special tyre shop to change them for example and you aren't restricted to driving a certain distance with Winter tyres fitted before you need to stop and re-fill them with air for 3 hours.
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