More ID.3 details

[SWoll]

gangzoom said:

granada203028 said:

I though the industry had batteries down to $100 a kWh now? So the 77kWh should be barely £2K more.

Tesla wants £6K to go from 55kWh to 75kWh, Porsche charges £4K to go from 80kWh to 90kWh. Audi wants £10K for 25kWh to go from the eTron 50 to eTron 55.

Good luck getting 20kWh extra fro £2k from anyone.

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 26th July 09:18

That's a very simplistic approach.

Tesla 55>75 gets you rather more than just a bigger battery for that £6k (2 motors, AWD, more performance, better interior) so not really comparable.

Porsche will of course be more expensive (as they are with everything) and the E-Tron 55 is again better equipped than the 50 and a more premium product so will command a higher price difference than a < £40k VW.

Not saying you are necessarily wrong but your examples don't confirm it IMHO.

[RobDickinson]

It depends if they are paying $100 or not LG Chem has increased prices, and that's for just cells not the pack (structure, cooling, extras etc)

[kambites]

Looking at the cell prices alone is overly simplistic when trying to judge manufacturing costs but as with any optional extra there's a fair amount of profit in the bigger batteries as well.

With demand for cells ramping up so fast, I suspect prices are going to rise rather than fall in the short term.

[gangzoom]

SWoll said:

That's a very simplistic approach.

Tesla 55>75 gets you rather more than just a bigger battery for that £6k (2 motors, AWD, more performance, better interior) so not really comparable.

Porsche will of course be more expensive (as they are with everything) and the E-Tron 55 is again better equipped than the 50 and a more premium product so will command a higher price difference than a < £40k VW.

Not saying you are necessarily wrong but your examples don't confirm it IMHO.

Its pretty simple from the point of the consumer, £2k will not get you a 20kWh increase in pack size.

[granada203028]

Yes so everything is running out of steam both technology and economies of scale. EVs are not going to get much more range per £.

Still the e-Niro stands out as the car to replace my 7 year old 80K Leaf. One more winter that's going to be it.

[RobDickinson]

granada203028 said:

Yes so everything is running out of steam both technology and economies of scale. EVs are not going to get much more range per £.

Still the e-Niro stands out as the car to replace my 7 year old 80K Leaf. One more winter that's going to be it.

No its really not. Prices are coming down, costs will scale, new battery tech is well under development etc

[kambites]

I think the big savings to come now are more in production economies of scale than decreasing drive train component costs.

[Otispunkmeyer]

RobDickinson said:

dxg said:

*Extremely* thorough review here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxAeMBtoSg&t=...

Seems to say that it drives extremely well, but the interior's cheap and the software and controls have all the same problems as the Golf 8 platform.

the golf 8 interior seems so much better

The MEB platform looks a good one for hardware, should be some great cars coming, not convinced of the ID3 exterior but its ok. They can fix the software eventually, not keen on those hardware sliders dont look like they help at all

Edited by RobDickinson on Sunday 26th July 03:31

From what I head read about the Golf 8 as well it sounded like they peaked with interior quality on the MK7!

Capacitive sliders feel a bit gimmicky 90s stereo to me.

[LasseV]

RobDickinson said:

No its really not. Prices are coming down, costs will scale, new battery tech is well under development etc

No, they are not.

[aestetix1]

SWoll said:

Tesla 55>75 gets you rather more than just a bigger battery for that £6k (2 motors, AWD, more performance, better interior) so not really comparable.

You have Kia and Hyundai to thank for that. It used to be a lot more but then they started offering a 24kWh upgrade for about £3.5k and not long after Tesla started cutting prices.

[RobDickinson]

Lol

[SWoll]

aestetix1 said:

SWoll said:

Tesla 55>75 gets you rather more than just a bigger battery for that £6k (2 motors, AWD, more performance, better interior) so not really comparable.

You have Kia and Hyundai to thank for that. It used to be a lot more but then they started offering a 24kWh upgrade for about £3.5k and not long after Tesla started cutting prices.

Pretty sure the LR is a similar price to what it was at launch and the gap closing has more to do with the SR+ price going up?

[jjwilde]

LasseV said:

No, they are not.

What?! No new battery tech is under development?

[granada203028]

An area of intense research of course but nothing seams to be making it out of the lab.

No hi end phones claim anything for the battery. All this aerospace research into electric aircraft, flying multi rotor taxis etc. achieving a mere 15 minutes?

And the £65K 2.2 Ton SUEVs just keep on coming.

[gangzoom]

Europe prices suggest the long range ID will cost €5000 more, and shorter range cost €5000 less.

Long range also becomes a 4 seater, as I've said before good luck with getting 20kWh extra battery for £2k.

https://insideevs.com/reviews/435470/vw-id3-first-...

[SWoll]

gangzoom said:

Europe prices suggest the long range ID will cost €5000 more, and shorter range cost €5000 less.

Long range also becomes a 4 seater, as I've said before good luck with getting 20kWh extra battery for £2k.

https://insideevs.com/reviews/435470/vw-id3-first-...

Be interesting to see if it's just the battery that changes but if it is that's quite a premium for a bit more range.

This though, "it's a four-seat version (because weight of the bigger battery)". Why does adding some weight require the removal of a seat?

[RobDickinson]

SWoll said:

This though, "it's a four-seat version (because weight of the bigger battery)". Why does adding some weight require the removal of a seat?

Maximum gross weight, isn't enough leeway between that, the net weight and 5 passengers.

And they don't want to uprate anything to help out

[SWoll]

RobDickinson said:

SWoll said:

This though, "it's a four-seat version (because weight of the bigger battery)". Why does adding some weight require the removal of a seat?

Maximum gross weight, isn't enough leeway between that, the net weight and 5 passengers.

And they don't want to uprate anything to help out

They must really be on the edge with the standard range car for such a drastic action to be required in the long range with what is supposed to be a practical family car?

Even more like a bigger/duller i3 now with only 4 seats.

[LasseV]

granada203028 said:

An area of intense research of course but nothing seams to be making it out of the lab.

No hi end phones claim anything for the battery. All this aerospace research into electric aircraft, flying multi rotor taxis etc. achieving a mere 15 minutes?

And the £65K 2.2 Ton SUEVs just keep on coming.

This is the truth. Solid state batteries were the most promising project, but Toyota released more information yesterday and it is a bust at the moment.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33435923/toyota...

BEV's are problematic for both manufacturer and consumer. I was surprised how much Tesla has downgraded their old cars via OTA. They did reduce range, charging speed and maximum power of their car. That's bad for consumer. On the other hand manufacturers struggles to make any money on BEV markets, and that is a issue for everybody. It is kind of pointless to sell EV cars if you can't make any profit out of it.

If the ID.3 is a sales flop, VW could be in a big trouble.

[ZesPak]

One of the things it does seem to get right is packaging. Something I thought the E tron and EQC amongst others were very disappointing in.
35k EUR for a car with minimal running costs, interior space close to a Passat and 0-100km/h of 7 seconds sounds a lot more compelling than "new Golf replacement for 35k".