BMW iX3 launched

[RobDickinson]

BMW managed an EV platform in 2011 and has been selling it ever since, this whole EV revolution isnt a surprise. its been coming for a decade.

[JonnyVTEC]

It wasn’t a platform. It was a science experiment single car that didn’t really work out as was a little too quirky and required a MASSIVE investment that never paid for itself.

I wasn’t looking for endorsement. Next.

[RobDickinson]

Totally better to bring out a platform that'll be getting on for 5 years old when launched, cram in some batteries and be totally behind the curve.

Thats what you expect from BMW right? a 5 year old platform with industry poorest capabilities.

[kambites]

l354uge said:

That'll be the ID3 then. Golf sized car with a passat size interior, starts under 30k and is from the most mainstream brand of all.
If volkwagen market it properly and the lease/PCP deals are attractive, it should change the game. (but not 'crush' or 'beat' tesla, as dull car reviewers like to say in any ev review...)

I used to think that but I'm no longer convinced the ID3 is going to be cheap enough. A car which starts at £29990 with a typical Germanic options list is going to be too expensive because the model people would actually want to buy will be £33-34k. Unless they go down the Kia route of offering next to no options, it probably needs to start at more like £25k.

Of course list price doesn't really matter, because it's only an indication of what the 90% of people who buy their cars on finance will actually pay. I think they need to get the ID3 down to around £350 a month in a reasonable spec (I mean really £350 a month, not £350 a month plus a deposit which works out at another £100 a month). Even £350 a month might be too much in the current economic climate.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 15th July 06:50

[RobDickinson]

There is like 8 pre-done spec levels for the id3 I doubt there's much configurable options

[JonChalk]

For those not forever burdened with brand snobbery, the newly announced Nissan Ariya looks to be faster, have greater range, greater choice of drivetrains and be something like £15k-£20k cheaper.

On top of that, it's better looking (not difficult with current BMWs though!).

[Evanivitch]

JonChalk said:

For those not forever burdened with brand snobbery, the newly announced Nissan Ariya looks to be faster, have greater range, greater choice of drivetrains and be something like £15k-£20k cheaper.

On top of that, it's better looking (not difficult with current BMWs though!).

That's the car Nissan should have put out 5 years ago, and started converting the QashQow masses. I can only assume there's been a lot of internal conflict about the Leaf despite it selling well.

[hyphen]

JonChalk said:

For those not forever burdened with brand snobbery, the newly announced Nissan Ariya looks to be faster, have greater range, greater choice of drivetrains and be something like £15k-£20k cheaper.

On top of that, it's better looking (not difficult with current BMWs though!).

Looks like an Infinity or a Lexus, more than a Nissan design.

And when is it coming out in the UK?

[gangzoom]

Nissans lack of EV enthusiasm is nothing to do with internal politics and all about sales.

The Leaf was projected to sell 200K units a year back in 2011, it never got close to that.

https://www.plugincars.com/nissan-leaf-sales-proje...

Nissan also had a 60kWh pack for the Leaf back in 2015, bear in mind at the time Nissan dealer could barely give the Leaf away (£0 deposit, sub £200/month deals), its unsurprising Nissan lost interest in EVs interms of core business.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100775_nissa...

People say a cheap decent range EV is what the mass market is waiting but its sales that count. The Bolt is a cheapish EV with good range but has barely made a dent in EV sales since its launch a few years ago, the current Leaf is a 150 mile range car for under £30k already but its hardly flying out of the show rooms.

The truth is the 'mass market' wanting EVs simply hasn't been proven, despite now there been plenty of options. Those of us who've been following EV developments will remeber how back in 2015, 2017 was going to be the 'breakthrough' year for EVs, than it became 2019, and now its 2021, progress is slow and painful in many ways regarding EV development and adoption.

The TV industry also pushed 3D TVs a few years ago, how many people care about 3D TVs now??

If the like of BMW keep on releasing 'ground breaking' EVs like the iX3 than EVs will go the way of 3D TVs, who knows that's what maybe they want anyways?

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 15th July 08:36

[RobDickinson]

The people who wanted EV's at BMW got pushed out in 2012/13

[George Smiley]

kambites said:

I think the big question at the moment with these sorts of cars is when will a mainstream manufacturer commit to EVs properly and price them based on protected economies of scale matching a normal mainstream vehicle. Comparing this to the base petrol version of the same car, I suspect the fundemental difference in cost of production is no more than around £5k; the other £15k of the price difference is all down to BMW not thinking they'll sell enough of them to make up the devleopment costs but of course that's something of a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I think once one well established company takes that leap of faith, it'll open the flood gates. The obvious possibility in Europe is the ID3.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 14th July 13:11

How do you keep revenues coming in without the need for expensive service plans?

You load the price upfront

[RobDickinson]

George Smiley said:

How do you keep revenues coming in without the need for expensive service plans?

You load the price upfront

Generally the dealers make the service money and they are not happy about EV's.

Manufacturers likely pricing them higher to protect their ice sales because that's what they mostly have to sell.

[CooperS]

George Smiley said:

kambites said:

I think the big question at the moment with these sorts of cars is when will a mainstream manufacturer commit to EVs properly and price them based on protected economies of scale matching a normal mainstream vehicle. Comparing this to the base petrol version of the same car, I suspect the fundemental difference in cost of production is no more than around £5k; the other £15k of the price difference is all down to BMW not thinking they'll sell enough of them to make up the devleopment costs but of course that's something of a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I think once one well established company takes that leap of faith, it'll open the flood gates. The obvious possibility in Europe is the ID3.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 14th July 13:11

How do you keep revenues coming in without the need for expensive service plans?

You load the price upfront

The issue is whilst there appears to be no BIG service bill. The costs aren't that different to a BMW of the same size.

I had a i3 and its price was the same as my 1 series before that.

[JonChalk]

hyphen said:

And when is it coming out in the UK?

Nothing official for the UK yet, but late 20 / early 21 seems to be the unofficial line.

[SWoll]

CooperS said:

George Smiley said:

kambites said:

I think the big question at the moment with these sorts of cars is when will a mainstream manufacturer commit to EVs properly and price them based on protected economies of scale matching a normal mainstream vehicle. Comparing this to the base petrol version of the same car, I suspect the fundemental difference in cost of production is no more than around £5k; the other £15k of the price difference is all down to BMW not thinking they'll sell enough of them to make up the devleopment costs but of course that's something of a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I think once one well established company takes that leap of faith, it'll open the flood gates. The obvious possibility in Europe is the ID3.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 14th July 13:11

How do you keep revenues coming in without the need for expensive service plans?

You load the price upfront

The issue is whilst there appears to be no BIG service bill. The costs aren't that different to a BMW of the same size.

I had a i3 and its price was the same as my 1 series before that.

Which for a revolutionary car built on a bespoke carbon/compsite tub seems fair. It's when they stick an EV drivetrain in the standard 1 Series chassis and charge £10k more for it that an ICE version with the same specifications it get's questionable IMHO.

[granada203028]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-bm...

[ZesPak]

Too bad BMW has lost the plot. The i3 might have been an acquired taste, but in terms of EV it was a good car for its time.

[granada203028]

Why do you say that?

The ix3 is another 2.2 Ton £60K SUEV. This is where the market is where money can be made.

Personally I hoped for an electric 3 series. A plane Jane saloon of reasonable quality which is not wacky and the other tech held in check. A 320D EV. Anonymous, small wheels, quietly confident.

I like the model Tesla model 3, other than the touch screen and no proper clocks. For going to work day in day out I just need the heater and am radio 5 live.

[ZesPak]

I say that because of the same reasons other posters have mentioned. A good ev is made as an EV from the ground up.
i3, Tesla's, Taycan, I Pace, Polestar 2. All designed as EVs, not slotted in as an afterthought.

[RobDickinson]

Polestar 2 is an ice xc40 platform..?