Does EV mean you drive more?
Discussion
Shower thoughts. Compared to ICE, EV either have the same or higher fixed costs (depreciation/ insurance, offset by lower vehicle duty) but much lower variable costs (fuel vs electricity)
In theory, this means people should end up doing more miles, as the marginal cost of trips will be much lower. Do you find this to be true, or does it just not make a difference?
In theory, this means people should end up doing more miles, as the marginal cost of trips will be much lower. Do you find this to be true, or does it just not make a difference?
In the 3 days we've had one, yes, but probably novelty factor. I definitely think our EV will be the go to, and we will use the rest of the fleet less.
Definitely tend to boot it more (30mph->Limit) as it goes well, and in the scheme of things, electricity kind of costs nothing compared with dino-juice.
Definitely tend to boot it more (30mph->Limit) as it goes well, and in the scheme of things, electricity kind of costs nothing compared with dino-juice.
Certainly hear of people doing this, particularly the earlier Tesla lot who had free supercharging as well.
I use our EV for everything possible now, the big family MPV is relegated to things like camping trips where we really need the space. Plus since covid we're behind on our lease mileage on the EV - with negligible fuel costs I'll be disappointed if we hand it back with less than the contract miles.
I use our EV for everything possible now, the big family MPV is relegated to things like camping trips where we really need the space. Plus since covid we're behind on our lease mileage on the EV - with negligible fuel costs I'll be disappointed if we hand it back with less than the contract miles.
Not for us, but I can imagine it is.
Over here a LOT of the new cars are company vehicles anyway, so for most people it doesn't matter what the car costs to run as their company runs it, taxes on it are more important and not dependent on mileage.
When we do travel, we do however tend to use the Model S, also with friends, as it's often the most practical and cheapest car to get there. So personally our car might do more miles (where we would otherwise carpool with friends), but the balance is the same.
I think at this point an EV is still hard to put into numbers in terms of cost. People who can't afford to put petrol in their car often can't afford to buy an EV yet.
What you're looking for is the "rebound effect", indirect or direct.
It's true (I speak for myself) that far from all of us buy an EV out of environmental reasons.
The problem with the rebound effect, especially indirect is that it's extremely hard to measure or quantify.
Over here a LOT of the new cars are company vehicles anyway, so for most people it doesn't matter what the car costs to run as their company runs it, taxes on it are more important and not dependent on mileage.
When we do travel, we do however tend to use the Model S, also with friends, as it's often the most practical and cheapest car to get there. So personally our car might do more miles (where we would otherwise carpool with friends), but the balance is the same.
I think at this point an EV is still hard to put into numbers in terms of cost. People who can't afford to put petrol in their car often can't afford to buy an EV yet.
What you're looking for is the "rebound effect", indirect or direct.
It's true (I speak for myself) that far from all of us buy an EV out of environmental reasons.
The problem with the rebound effect, especially indirect is that it's extremely hard to measure or quantify.
Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 1st October 13:50
The only time we driver "further" is when we take the car instead of walking to the local shops. They are about 1km away, and we usually walk, but having a car that doesn't penilise with horrendous consumption on short journeys means if it's raining we can now drive and feel less bad. However the total additional consumption is tiny, because the extra mileage is tiny....
We have 1 EV and one ICE, no change in mileage at all, most things up to 140 round trip, the EV, anything else, the ICE, if the weathers nice and I just fancy a blat, the ICE as its a convertible, so really no change for us, was the same when we ran 2 ICE cars usually something small, Mini / Scirocco and a convertible 2nd car.
I have a PHEV, not full EV, but even if I did the answer would be 'no'.
I often drive only for pleasure, I go on roadtrips with likeminded mates and sometimes go for a drive just for the sake of it, sometimes for miles through the Peaks as I live nearby in either of my petrol sports cars. I wouldn't ever do that in an EV if I had one (or currently in my PHEV) as I wouldn't get any pleasure from it. For me, PHEV/EV is for daily motoring - for this it's brilliant and I wouldn't buy another ICE car. But on a sunny Sunday morning, I'm never going to get up early to take one over the Peaks as I would my Aston or Clio, or plan to drive it to the Italian lakes for a holiday etc
I often drive only for pleasure, I go on roadtrips with likeminded mates and sometimes go for a drive just for the sake of it, sometimes for miles through the Peaks as I live nearby in either of my petrol sports cars. I wouldn't ever do that in an EV if I had one (or currently in my PHEV) as I wouldn't get any pleasure from it. For me, PHEV/EV is for daily motoring - for this it's brilliant and I wouldn't buy another ICE car. But on a sunny Sunday morning, I'm never going to get up early to take one over the Peaks as I would my Aston or Clio, or plan to drive it to the Italian lakes for a holiday etc
Yes, but mainly for shorter trips or runs to shops etc. Since there is no need to warm up and economy is essentially the same, regardless, it’s easier and simpler. And don’t forget the ease of use too, since it’s a case of jump in and go. It’s seconds difference I know, but the perception goes a long way.
Finally I would mention that here in CA it’s been a long hot summer. With no real time needed for the air con to kick in, it does mean it’s cooler quicker and that can make the difference of which car to choose. Though range does drop in hot weather due to the increased consumption of electrons.
Used to have an Evoque, which struggled to get over 15mpg on short trips, the difference is massive!!!!
Finally I would mention that here in CA it’s been a long hot summer. With no real time needed for the air con to kick in, it does mean it’s cooler quicker and that can make the difference of which car to choose. Though range does drop in hot weather due to the increased consumption of electrons.
Used to have an Evoque, which struggled to get over 15mpg on short trips, the difference is massive!!!!
wisbech said:
In theory, this means people should end up doing more miles, as the marginal cost of trips will be much lower. Do you find this to be true, or does it just not make a difference?
100% true for me, I went from doing 7K miles a year to over 15K because the it was so cheap to drive. It got to the point where we were driving less than a 0.5 mile to the shops etc when we could have just walked. Decided to scale back our car usage beginning of the year, COVID has clearly helped, also now been able to walk to school for drop off rather than drive to nursery. So far this year I've cut the millage down to less than 4000 miles since Jan 2020, hopefully will end the year with sub 5K miles for the year.
Shrimpvende said:
I have a PHEV, not full EV, but even if I did the answer would be 'no'.
I often drive only for pleasure, I go on roadtrips with likeminded mates and sometimes go for a drive just for the sake of it, sometimes for miles through the Peaks as I live nearby in either of my petrol sports cars. I wouldn't ever do that in an EV if I had one (or currently in my PHEV) as I wouldn't get any pleasure from it. For me, PHEV/EV is for daily motoring - for this it's brilliant and I wouldn't buy another ICE car. But on a sunny Sunday morning, I'm never going to get up early to take one over the Peaks as I would my Aston or Clio, or plan to drive it to the Italian lakes for a holiday etc
Well, I regularly take my EV out just for the fun of driving it so can't agree with you there. Lots of great B-Roads nearby and it's fantastic fun.I often drive only for pleasure, I go on roadtrips with likeminded mates and sometimes go for a drive just for the sake of it, sometimes for miles through the Peaks as I live nearby in either of my petrol sports cars. I wouldn't ever do that in an EV if I had one (or currently in my PHEV) as I wouldn't get any pleasure from it. For me, PHEV/EV is for daily motoring - for this it's brilliant and I wouldn't buy another ICE car. But on a sunny Sunday morning, I'm never going to get up early to take one over the Peaks as I would my Aston or Clio, or plan to drive it to the Italian lakes for a holiday etc
Agree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
SWoll said:
Well, I regularly take my EV out just for the fun of driving it so can't agree with you there. Lots of great B-Roads nearby and it's fantastic fun.
Agree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
Really interesting to hear that (I haven't before), may I ask which EV you have? I did wonder if I would be more inclined if it was an EV sports/supercar, although I think I'd miss the drama of the engine noise and gear changes so it wouldn't feel rightAgree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
Shrimpvende said:
SWoll said:
Well, I regularly take my EV out just for the fun of driving it so can't agree with you there. Lots of great B-Roads nearby and it's fantastic fun.
Agree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
Really interesting to hear that (I haven't before), may I ask which EV you have? I did wonder if I would be more inclined if it was an EV sports/supercar, although I think I'd miss the drama of the engine noise and gear changes so it wouldn't feel rightAgree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
SWoll said:
Tesla Model 3 Performance. It's no lightweight sportscar obviously but the combination of quick/accurate steering, massive grip/traction, excellent visibility and other worldy real world performance make it huge fun to punt down a B-Road in all weathers and it costs pennies to do it.
Yeah, as mentioned in another thread, I'd be all in for a 2dr or convertible TM3P. That would be amazing to go for a blast or road trip. Shrimpvende said:
SWoll said:
Well, I regularly take my EV out just for the fun of driving it so can't agree with you there. Lots of great B-Roads nearby and it's fantastic fun.
Agree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
Really interesting to hear that (I haven't before), may I ask which EV you have? I did wonder if I would be more inclined if it was an EV sports/supercar, although I think I'd miss the drama of the engine noise and gear changes so it wouldn't feel rightAgree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
I did say to my wife that the next car purchase we made was likely to be an EV, but I was expecting in a year or two. Rather surprised it was so soon (circumstances and seriously, the i3 is an absolute steal second hand! Got a CPO one with a warranty and extended drivetrain warranty until 100,000 miles - 22k miles on a 2 year old car for less than 1/2 the original price! Damn bargain!). I am keeping the C63S for a while, but I do expect that the next large car purchase will be something electric - probably in a couple of years. What it will be is a mystery at the moment, but have to say that with all of the new cars coming in 2021 and beyond, its going to be a great buyers market. If thats the case, I will likely end up with something I can tinker with, probably old, crap and petrol powered though!
Now, electric motorcycles (I ride bikes too) - not so convinced on that at the moment. Sub-100 mile range between charges doesnt currently make sense. So thats staying petrol for a while...
SWoll said:
Well, I regularly take my EV out just for the fun of driving it so can't agree with you there. Lots of great B-Roads nearby and it's fantastic fun.
Agree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
I actually managed to get our new Zoe to light its wheels up exiting a roundabout last night, really has got some shove. I'm really enjoying driving it. Day 4, and its still the keys I grab first rather than the ones to the 911. The handling for something so heavy really should not be as good as it is. Guess the batteries are low down between the axles help with that and the weight smothers holes the sAgree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
t roads by us.dgswk said:
SWoll said:
Well, I regularly take my EV out just for the fun of driving it so can't agree with you there. Lots of great B-Roads nearby and it's fantastic fun.
Agree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
I actually managed to get our new Zoe to light its wheels up exiting a roundabout last night, really has got some shove. I'm really enjoying driving it. Day 4, and its still the keys I grab first rather than the ones to the 911. The handling for something so heavy really should not be as good as it is. Guess the batteries are low down between the axles help with that and the weight smothers holes the sAgree though that I wouldn't take it on a cross continent trip rather than an ICE V8. It's no GT car and wouldn't want to be tied down to charging it every 200-250 miles. Still got a hankering for a Maserati GranTurismo or Aston Rapide for that job at some point.
t roads by us.SWoll said:
We had an i3 before the Tesla and also found that was huge fun. Just something very different about EV driving due to the ease of use and instant throttle response that makes it an addictive experience. Can't see e owning another ICE car now other than something for special occasions.
Yeah, if only the Tesla was a 3 door sporty coupe and sub £100k. If it were, the 911's days would seriously be numbered, even with 450bhp, PDK and a sporty 'zorst. Hate to say it. We will certainly never buy / lease ICE again, apart from when the trusty sheddy tip car goes bang.Why oh why BMW, a full EV i8, 240 mile range, 140mph top speed and a sub 4 to 60, sub 9 to 100. Could have been such a great car!
Sure they will come in time.
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