Hydrogen availability
Discussion
ATG said:
Nobody has claimed that ideal EV charging infrastructure is in place. If you applied the same warped logic to hydrogen you'd dismiss it out of hand now because there currently isn't any infrastructure.
Given we regularly dig up residential streets to install fibre broadband, renew a gas main, etc, etc, it hardly seems a big stretch to gradually install charging points in residential streets where they're needed. We already run power to street lights, parking metres, Belisha beacons in those streets and to all the houses along those streets. Why is some extra demand overnight and a bit more street furniture considered a big hurdle?
The biggest problems isn't installing the charging point'sGiven we regularly dig up residential streets to install fibre broadband, renew a gas main, etc, etc, it hardly seems a big stretch to gradually install charging points in residential streets where they're needed. We already run power to street lights, parking metres, Belisha beacons in those streets and to all the houses along those streets. Why is some extra demand overnight and a bit more street furniture considered a big hurdle?
It's installing the new substations and larger high voltages feeds to the substations to be able to run several charging point's off them
That's far more work then just a charging point install
As your talking probably miles of cable
Hydrogen cars might sell to for the intersection between {too poor to have off street parking} and {rich enough to pay 3x the rate for fuel and much higher sticker price on a brand new car}.
I suspect that is a small group.
I suspect also that it will be the intersection between {too time poor to use a fast charger} and {loads of time to find a hydrogen station}
I suspect that is a small group.
I suspect also that it will be the intersection between {too time poor to use a fast charger} and {loads of time to find a hydrogen station}
otolith said:
Hydrogen cars might sell to for the intersection between {too poor to have off street parking} and {rich enough to pay 3x the rate for fuel and much higher sticker price on a brand new car}.
I suspect that is a small group.
I suspect also that it will be the intersection between {too time poor to use a fast charger} and {loads of time to find a hydrogen station}
It's not as simple as you think. The social considerations are far more complex.I suspect that is a small group.
I suspect also that it will be the intersection between {too time poor to use a fast charger} and {loads of time to find a hydrogen station}
There are street and streets of people living in, to give one example, Muswell Hill, who won't be poor and don't have off-street parking.
Lack of off-street parking affects not just the poor.
Time is not the only constraint to consider when accessing fast chargers. Quantity and location are two other obvious factors. Yes we'll increase the number of these charging points but the number of users will also increase. I wonder what the tipping point will be where car charging starts to seriously impact the model of businesses who only have finite parking space to allow their clientele to shop there.
My first comment on this thread was to suggest that investment in hydrogen for freight vehicles should increase the potential for hydrogen to become available to car users.
You're talking about the now but the future will be very different. Can we ever achieve the change in infrastructure that we need to make plugin battery EVs an everyman mode?
anonymous said:
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WFH. Both have a fair commute to work, probably doing twice the average annual mileage prior to Covid (UK average being less than 8,000 miles per year). Having chargers was certainly crucial when we had a few early Leaf and Zoe owners commuting into work, but besides from me "needing" to refill my relatively small 10kWh PHEV battery, everyone else chooses to charge when in the office from convenience.
otolith said:
anonymous said:
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Putting in some more kerbside charging and the wealthy abandoning areas which don't have great public transport or EV charging facilities? Yes, very easily.
Evanivitch said:
anonymous said:
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I bet the blokes that went around lighting candles at night said gas would never work. Then the gas man said Electric street lighting would never work too.The implications of this are far different to those changes.
We're talking an extra x-kW outlet per car-owning household on every street that has no off-street parking. It's not a network of a few lights per street that has no public interface or metering and cost charging system.
As others have said before that's without the extra substations you'd need to distribute this, especially considering the draw will be heavy at night.
And then we have the issue of bad parking or not being able to find a space outside your home.
anonymous said:
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More houses for lower income people? So the higher income people have sold at a reduced price the lower income people can achieve?And the lower income people are left with limited access to EV ownership, thus exacerbating the effect of social division caused by EVs?
Are you trolling?!!!!!!
anonymous said:
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So installing gas works, pumping stations, running gas into people's homes, and metering them was all pretty simple trick?We already have electricity at people's homes. We already have electricity under the pavement. If people are charging for 8-10 hours overnight they don't need huge power to refill for several days use.
Funnily enough, we all the street lights were converted from Sodium to LED, that opened up huge capacity on a lot of streets. The same capacity that has been used by several councils to implement kerbside charging.
anonymous said:
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Nope. This stuff happens. Areas go up, areas go down. Houses with off road charging will get a premium, houses with on street charging will be OK, houses with no on street parking next to good public transport will be OK, houses with no charging and no public transport will lose out. The market will fix it. No big deal.otolith said:
Nope. This stuff happens. Areas go up, areas go down. Houses with off road charging will get a premium, houses with on street charging will be OK, houses with no on street parking next to good public transport will be OK, houses with no charging and no public transport will lose out. The market will fix it. No big deal.
Wow. Hydrogen wouldn't affect the house market like this.anonymous said:
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Wouldn't it? When people can't afford a car at all because it costs three times as much energy to run it? I think that might have a bit of an impact. Or we could keep on burning fossil fuels, that will probably have a bit of an impact in some low lying areas too.otolith said:
anonymous said:
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Wouldn't it? When people can't afford a car at all because it costs three times as much energy to run it? I think that might have a bit of an impact. Or we could keep on burning fossil fuels, that will probably have a bit of an impact in some low lying areas too.Chris32345 said:
The biggest problems isn't installing the charging point's
It's installing the new substations and larger high voltages feeds to the substations to be able to run several charging point's off them
That's far more work then just a charging point install
As your talking probably miles of cable
Absolutely!It's installing the new substations and larger high voltages feeds to the substations to be able to run several charging point's off them
That's far more work then just a charging point install
As your talking probably miles of cable
As so often, there's devilry in the engineering detail. A month or two back the papers covered a report by a highly-qualified electrical engineer on all the challenges of increasing the power supply to homes for EV charging as well as other things like heat pumps. Now I can't find it!
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