My 2021 plan - replace hybrid with all-electric
Discussion
My Lexus hybrid is basically a tax scam. OK, it does get 30-35mpg which isn't bad for a large 4x4ish car, but the e-motor side of it doesn't really add up. There's no real range to be had in stop-crawl traffic from the batteries and many aspects of the e-system seem underwhelming (e.g. energy recovery, etc). And the car tax is still £295.
So I want to replace it with an all-electric car this year (once we can get out and test drive again). But I'm a cheapskate and only buy used on the sub-£10,000 budget.
Had thought about a used Leaf (non-lease battery), but are there better options? Requirements:
So I want to replace it with an all-electric car this year (once we can get out and test drive again). But I'm a cheapskate and only buy used on the sub-£10,000 budget.
Had thought about a used Leaf (non-lease battery), but are there better options? Requirements:
- daily driver
- 7 mile each-way commute
- occasional 50 mile trip to supplier
- have a second ICE car if I need long range
- can install a charger at the work address
- can charge through the day
- comfort = nice-to-have, but not really necessary
- two seats is enough, would be nice to put a bike in the back sometimes
smallredball said:
Extra Q: I would expect that servicing costs of an EV are much lower than an ICE/hybrid. Is this true in the real world?
For secondhand stuff, there are plenty of EV specialists cropping up, so should be really cheap comparatively.And there's a whole range of repairs possible, so little need to be afraid of them - this youtube channel has some very good practical examples of major work being undertaken easily;
https://www.youtube.com/user/James0852
[Disclosure have none of the cars I am about to mention]
I have read, here and other places about the I3 and repairs, should any be required. Many have said that the car has been reliable, but if it goes wrong, the repair cost is extremely high. Look at extended warranty (cost of which I believe is quite high)
Nissan Leaf (various) - battery condition, in particular of the early models where the battery can have degraded significantly although a 7 mile each way commute ought to be very easy, even with a degraded battery, in particular if you can charge at both ends (just in case). Also repairs to leaves (leafs) seem to be less than completely unreasonable. Some people are even putting new batteries in, which means it must be a little affordable. Cars other than battery seem reliable
Zoe - figure out who owns the battery
Soul, may have some warranty left.
I have read, here and other places about the I3 and repairs, should any be required. Many have said that the car has been reliable, but if it goes wrong, the repair cost is extremely high. Look at extended warranty (cost of which I believe is quite high)
Nissan Leaf (various) - battery condition, in particular of the early models where the battery can have degraded significantly although a 7 mile each way commute ought to be very easy, even with a degraded battery, in particular if you can charge at both ends (just in case). Also repairs to leaves (leafs) seem to be less than completely unreasonable. Some people are even putting new batteries in, which means it must be a little affordable. Cars other than battery seem reliable
Zoe - figure out who owns the battery
Soul, may have some warranty left.
Had a 65 plate Leaf over 3 years and have had a 68 plate Soul from new - both leased.
Both dead reliable, a few suspension creaks but otherwise perfect.
Soul drives better, dare I say it ‘sportier’, Leaf is a real soft riding relaxing thing. Both sit you up high compared to a lot of standard hatchbacks. Range approx 90-120 on the Soul depending on weather. Displayed range on both is always pretty accurate. Good standard Soul kit too - heated seats and wheel, CarPlay etc.
I’d get a Soul if in budget.
Both dead reliable, a few suspension creaks but otherwise perfect.
Soul drives better, dare I say it ‘sportier’, Leaf is a real soft riding relaxing thing. Both sit you up high compared to a lot of standard hatchbacks. Range approx 90-120 on the Soul depending on weather. Displayed range on both is always pretty accurate. Good standard Soul kit too - heated seats and wheel, CarPlay etc.
I’d get a Soul if in budget.
NugentS][Disclosure have none of the cars I am about to mention said:
I have read, here and other places about the I3 and repairs, should any be required. Many have said that the car has been reliable, but if it goes wrong, the repair cost is extremely high. Look at extended warranty (cost of which I believe is quite high)
Nissan Leaf (various) - battery condition, in particular of the early models where the battery can have degraded significantly although a 7 mile each way commute ought to be very easy, even with a degraded battery, in particular if you can charge at both ends (just in case). Also repairs to leaves (leafs) seem to be less than completely unreasonable. Some people are even putting new batteries in, which means it must be a little affordable. Cars other than battery seem reliable
Zoe - figure out who owns the battery
Soul, may have some warranty left.
I think a 30kwh Leaf is great value, sub £10k Tekna would be my choice. Had 2 good versatile cars, for local use only really charging network is a mess and unreliable imo. You won't lose much money on one, the battery is worth around £4-5k on its own. Nissan Leaf (various) - battery condition, in particular of the early models where the battery can have degraded significantly although a 7 mile each way commute ought to be very easy, even with a degraded battery, in particular if you can charge at both ends (just in case). Also repairs to leaves (leafs) seem to be less than completely unreasonable. Some people are even putting new batteries in, which means it must be a little affordable. Cars other than battery seem reliable
Zoe - figure out who owns the battery
Soul, may have some warranty left.
Thanks chaps. I do like ride comfort (my RX400h's levels would be nice). The shortlist is down to:
I watched a few videos at the weekend and 4miles/kWhr seems typical for these small-to-mid size EVs. So I'll plug that into the spreadsheet.
- Leaf Mk1 at £7-8000
- Soul at about £10000
- long-shot = Zoe (not yet convinced)
I watched a few videos at the weekend and 4miles/kWhr seems typical for these small-to-mid size EVs. So I'll plug that into the spreadsheet.
OK, I have now done enough reading to see that the Leaf's uncooled battery charging design means that its battery life does degenerate. And if I am looking at a 2015ish model, this is relevant. This issue eventually leads to dropped bars on the fuel gauge - can be seen on older Leafs. Some discussion about whether it's due to particular patterns of charging/etc. Not clear on that.
More significant info can be gleaned through an OBD2 reader and app. That shows cell variations, SOH, etc. And as shown in the YT link posted above, some EV garages will replace/upgrade Leaf batteries. Not cheap though, at £5000+.
Nissan gives an 8yr/100,000m warranty on the current 40kW battery. But do we know if the warranty was the same length/terms those 2015-era models, and if it is transferable?
More significant info can be gleaned through an OBD2 reader and app. That shows cell variations, SOH, etc. And as shown in the YT link posted above, some EV garages will replace/upgrade Leaf batteries. Not cheap though, at £5000+.
Nissan gives an 8yr/100,000m warranty on the current 40kW battery. But do we know if the warranty was the same length/terms those 2015-era models, and if it is transferable?
Lots of people get put off by the Zoe battery lease but it’s worth thinking about. The £49pm (£588pa) gets you an ongoing battery warranty and breakdown cover and they’re way cheaper to buy upfront. RCI are allowing people to buy out the lease now too, it’s about £2500 for a 22kwh. Don’t think that even needs a dealer to do any more, so you could lease for a bit, if you’re happy it’s ok then buy it out.
Works well for the rest of your needs, bit more fun than a Leaf, battery doesn’t degrade like a Leaf. I also like how you can preheat from the key rather than faffing with apps.
Works well for the rest of your needs, bit more fun than a Leaf, battery doesn’t degrade like a Leaf. I also like how you can preheat from the key rather than faffing with apps.
^ Thanks - that's news to me. Zoe remains in the running for post-lockdown test drives.
Was a bit perturbed to learn yesterday that Kia's no-spare-tyre policy means that if you get a puncture you must use the goo. You can't buy a jack + spare yourself.
Because they say that you cannot jack up the car to swap wheels. It's dangerous, apparently. :-o
Was a bit perturbed to learn yesterday that Kia's no-spare-tyre policy means that if you get a puncture you must use the goo. You can't buy a jack + spare yourself.
Because they say that you cannot jack up the car to swap wheels. It's dangerous, apparently. :-o
Bloke who walks my dog when I'm at work has a '13 plate Leaf. It's done 80,000 miles and the battery is still at something like 92% health. I've heard other similar stories so I'm thinking battery longevity isn't an issue (as long as you have bought the battery rather than rented it). He's just changed the front pads for the first time too so maintenance isn't a problem. On my e-Golf the service schedule is basically change the pollen filter and wash it. I think some of the early Leaves (I don't know either) can't do rapid charging so if you're having to stop to fill up with electricity you might be there for a bit.
Just to round things off: I dithered, and wobbled and ... postponed the idea of buying an EV for now. The market is moving pretty quickly, and the most attractive ones are still too spendy, because there are too few on the market.
But, the ideas above were great and I've decided on a 2-year lease of a new EV. The E-Niro, Soul and Kona are still too popular with no great deals, but I found an Ioniq (38kW). At £215/month amortized, it'll be cheaper than running the Lexus hybrid. It also has far better range than anything I could afford to buy used and it'll give me more time to wait and watch for the more interesting EVs to come on to the second-hand market.
But, the ideas above were great and I've decided on a 2-year lease of a new EV. The E-Niro, Soul and Kona are still too popular with no great deals, but I found an Ioniq (38kW). At £215/month amortized, it'll be cheaper than running the Lexus hybrid. It also has far better range than anything I could afford to buy used and it'll give me more time to wait and watch for the more interesting EVs to come on to the second-hand market.
Don't bin the Lexus though! I have an RX400h and from new. Coming up to 12 years and 155,000 miles and still runs like new. It was a very good buy for the period and I still use it as the main car. I do have a new RX450h but hardly used it as it has stayed in the garage.
Lexus lasts.
Lexus lasts.
TUS373 said:
Don't bin the Lexus though! I have an RX400h and from new. Coming up to 12 years and 155,000 miles and still runs like new. It was a very good buy for the period and I still use it as the main car. I do have a new RX450h but hardly used it as it has stayed in the garage.
Lexus lasts.
Indeed (mine's a 2006 with 67,000m), but something's got to go! I am keeping my old LS400 (1997) as my long-distance drive. Lexus lasts.
When I started doing the bEV research, it was disappointing to see that Toyota/Lexus are nowhere to be seen.
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