New Hyundai Ioniq 5

[JonnyVTEC]

gangzoom said:

The max charge rate of this thing is mad, C rating of nearly 3 for large parts of the charge cycle, that's far more aggressive than anyother EV, including the ETron which has a massive top end buffer and a bigger battery.

The established laws of battery chemistry says any charge rate above 1C is bad for battery degredation. It'll be introduced to see if Hyundai maintains this aggressive charge rate into production and if so the effects on long term battery health.

https://insideevs.com/news/503522/hyundai-ioniq5-f...

Indeed its about the same as the Taycan @270kW (owing to the larger pack) and yet Porsche have just done a software update to allow 200kW if the customer 'chooses' sounds like some battery cell stress is popping up.

https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/23/porsche-updat...

[QUOTE]The ‘battery-saving charging’ function will also be introduced in the existing vehicles, where the DC charging power can be reduced from 270 to 200 kW. According to Meier, Porsche has no doubts about the service life with frequent fast charging. “This does not in any way limit the warranty or guarantee of the battery. We are very sure that it fits,” says Maier and explains: “We have very conscious customers who have asked for this function. Those who don’t just want to have an espresso when they take a break from charging can also activate this function.”

As Porsche points out, the resulting lower battery temperature “leads to gentler battery charging and a particularly efficient charging process”. In addition, frequent fast charging extends the battery’s service life, which is likely to be more interesting for buyers of the vehicle, for example, than for lessees. The fast-charging map itself has not been adapted, yet the 200 kW can be maintained for longer with the reduced peak power and lower heating.

Edited by JonnyVTEC on Tuesday 27th April 08:51

[kambites]

From a practical standpoint there's so few chargers capable of that sort of rate that it's going to be a moot point for a while, at least.

[JonnyVTEC]

kambites said:

From a practical standpoint there's so few chargers capable of that sort of rate that it's going to be a moot point for a while, at least.

I think Rugby services opened this week.

12x 350kW chargers - its starting.

[kambites]

JonnyVTEC said:

kambites said:

From a practical standpoint there's so few chargers capable of that sort of rate that it's going to be a moot point for a while, at least.

I think Rugby services opened this week.

12x 350kW chargers - its starting.

Yup, but it's going to be a small minority for a good few years.

[SWoll]

kambites said:

JonnyVTEC said:

kambites said:

From a practical standpoint there's so few chargers capable of that sort of rate that it's going to be a moot point for a while, at least.

I think Rugby services opened this week.

12x 350kW chargers - its starting.

Yup, but it's going to be a small minority for a good few years.

And based on the above I'd avoid like the plague if planning on keeping the car long term?

[kambites]

SWoll said:

And based on the above I'd avoid like the plague if planning on keeping the car long term?

That's certainly the conventional wisdom.

[danp]

The high C rates are certainly interesting to see, the book I’ve just read says that up to 1.5C is “relatively benign”, 2C is “probably acceptable for occasional charging” and that beyond 2C “the battery will deteriorate rapidly”.

Not aware that this (or the Taycan) has some kind of wonder chemistry to alleviate the issue?

[Evanivitch]

SWoll said:

kambites said:

JonnyVTEC said:

kambites said:

From a practical standpoint there's so few chargers capable of that sort of rate that it's going to be a moot point for a while, at least.

I think Rugby services opened this week.

12x 350kW chargers - its starting.

Yup, but it's going to be a small minority for a good few years.

And based on the above I'd avoid like the plague if planning on keeping the car long term?

I think that's dross.

Would I be using them as my only means of charging? Probably not. But I don't expect anyone will be. 50-100kW charging whilst you shop is more than enough.

But the idea you should never use them is like never, ever taking your car to the redline or never accelerating whilst the engine/transmission is cold (say like joining motorway after a horrendous night at a services hotel). The car is designed to do it. Don't abuse it either, but use it when you need to.

[SWoll]

Evanivitch said:

I think that's dross.

Would I be using them as my only means of charging? Probably not. But I don't expect anyone will be. 50-100kW charging whilst you shop is more than enough.

But the idea you should never use them is like never, ever taking your car to the redline or never accelerating whilst the engine/transmission is cold (say like joining motorway after a horrendous night at a services hotel). The car is designed to do it. Don't abuse it either, but use it when you need to.

As above, I'd avoid like the plague if planning to keep the car long term. Quite possible for someone to use them very regularly if local and covering decent daily mileage etc. once they become more common. I'd certainly be wary of ex lease EV's that are capable of this kind of charge rate and would be looking for a battery health check.

[kambites]

SWoll said:

As above, I'd avoid like the plague if planning to keep the car long term. Quite possible for someone to use them very regularly if local and covering decent daily mileage etc. once they become more common. I'd certainly be wary of ex lease EV's that are capable of this kind of charge rate and would be looking for a battery health check.

I suspect battery health checks will simply become the norm when buying second-hand, at least from a garage.

[Mikehig]

danp said:

The high C rates are certainly interesting to see, the book I’ve just read says that up to 1.5C is “relatively benign”, 2C is “probably acceptable for occasional charging” and that beyond 2C “the battery will deteriorate rapidly”.

Not aware that this (or the Taycan) has some kind of wonder chemistry to alleviate the issue?

Are those criteria the same for 800V systems like this and the Porsche?

[JonnyVTEC]

Mikehig said:

Are those criteria the same for 800V systems like this and the Porsche?

Cells are the same really, just strung differently. - twice as many in series to get to a 800V bus voltage rather than 400V

The higher voltage means less current which helps things like the connectors, cables and busbars being downsized / less overheating.

[J1990]

The Ioniq 5 has me so excited as a concept (Price vs range vs interior spec) that I'm close to canning the idea of a new I-Pace and just getting a short term lease or cash purchase until I can get my hands on the 5. I can't help but think the current haul of electric cars is going to take a serious pounding on used prices when their range and charging capabilities pale in to comparison - Yes, I know the infrastructure is required to enable that charging speed but the general public seem to just care about the numbers and it is the public that set the used market prices.

[ZesPak]

J1990 said:

The Ioniq 5 has me so excited as a concept (Price vs range vs interior spec) that I'm close to canning the idea of a new I-Pace and just getting a short term lease or cash purchase until I can get my hands on the 5. I can't help but think the current haul of electric cars is going to take a serious pounding on used prices when their range and charging capabilities pale in to comparison - Yes, I know the infrastructure is required to enable that charging speed but the general public seem to just care about the numbers and it is the public that set the used market prices.

It's all habit though.
I don't mind my 150kW charge limit, if it's available. It means 10 min charging per hour of driving, which I find perfectly acceptable to do a couple times/year.

What I do think is that the Ioniq 5 makes a lot other EV's look outdated in other ways. It highlights the apparent "reverse tardis" of the e-tron and taycan. The Hyundai has the lenght of the I-Pace with interior space to rival the e-tron from the looks of it.
The external plugs have a number of great applications, maybe a bit niche but something I can easily see been taken for granted in the next decade.

Johnny Smith had the right idea :


It also makes me think is that we haven't seen the last of this. The Honda with the plug inside, the Ioniq with the plug outside, Rivian promising tank turns, insane acceleration from Tesla/Porsche, superb packaging from Tesa/Hyundai. It's clear that manufacturers are still scratching the surface of what's possible.

Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 28th April 11:42

[J1990]

ZesPak said:

It's all habit though.
I don't mind my 150kW charge limit, if it's available. It means 10 min charging per hour of driving, which I find perfectly acceptable to do a couple times/year.

What I do think is that the Ioniq 5 makes a lot other EV's look outdated in other ways. It highlights the apparent "reverse tardis" of the e-tron and taycan. The Hyundai has the lenght of the I-Pace with interior space to rival the e-tron from the looks of it.
The external plugs have a number of great applications, maybe a bit niche but something I can easily see been taken for granted in the next decade.

Johnny Smith had the right idea :


It also makes me think is that we haven't seen the last of this. The Honda with the plug inside, the Ioniq with the plug outside, Rivian promising tank turns, insane acceleration from Tesla/Porsche, superb packaging from Tesa/Hyundai. It's clear that manufacturers are still scratching the surface of what's possible.

Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 28th April 11:42

100% agree. The I-Pace is exciting to drive, it's beautiful inside and out (subjective, of course) and it really made me want it. Looking at the EV6 and the Ioniq 5 just feels like a completely new generation and I feel like holding off a 70k purchase this year in favour of buying in a more competitive market in 2022 is just the smart thing to do.
I loved the pre-production version of the enyaq (The bright yellow, Vision iV concept) and the Ioniq 5 might not have the sexiest of lines but it certainly seems to pack a whole lot of functionality that just can't be looked past - The crazy thought of having a power cut and plugging your essentials in to the car until the power returns seems to be far less crazy that it would have sounded a few years ago.

[Evanivitch]

ZesPak said:

Johnny Smith had the right idea :

Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 28th April 11:42

Johnny certainly nailed the use of the power exporting. Makes you think what Rivian will be capable of if/when they make it to market.

[ChocolateFrog]

The Koreans have really nailed this.

I hope they sell loads. I'd have one of these over a Model 3 everyday of the week.

[jason61c]

ChocolateFrog said:

The Koreans have really nailed this.

I hope they sell loads. I'd have one of these over a Model 3 everyday of the week.

every day of the week

[SWoll]

I do wish they wouldn't test fully loaded cars on these review videos, point out all the cool stuff and then give base spec prices.

According to the euro configurator it'll cost almost £60k for a similarly equipped car to the one Jonny can be seen testing.

[Smiljan]

I sort of agree Swoll but it's a bit tricky for them to review the options if they aren't fitted. Whatever you do, don't look at the Taycan configurator.

That can get up to some serious numbers if you play with options.

Edited by Smiljan on Wednesday 28th April 19:26