New Hyundai Ioniq 5
Discussion
greggy50 said:
7n8n said:
All these cars are just way too expensive for the average person. £45k? GTFO.
Thats for a top of the range model?A base one will be more like £30k which is similar to an average specification Golf nowadays...
The only way it will be £30k is if the first edition gets massively discounted. It's not unprecedented, they discounted the old Ioniq a lot and Nissan will knock over £10k off a Leaf without even asking.
EV pricing has been silly for years.
kambites said:
It's not a hatchback though is it? It's a massive great SUVish thing.
The Kona is a much smaller, cheaper car if that's what you want.
I thought the Ioniq 5 was Qashqai sized. Perhaps I've got this wrong?The Kona is a much smaller, cheaper car if that's what you want.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 23 February 17:53
The Kona is quite impractical. Family member has a hybrid Kona and there's very little boot space. My Nissan Note is more spacious.
SWoll said:
- There is still a second hand EV market so plenty of choice for lower budgets that will keep on improving
- Leasing and PCP have made new cars more accessible to 'average people'
- Plenty of new EV's available in the £20-25k bracket and others starting to drop under the £20k barrier like the Fiat 500e.
- New technology always starts at the top end as these things are expensive to produce until the cost benefits of true mass production kick in.
- A new Ford Fiesta starts at £16k, a new Golf £25k. They are 2 of the 3 top selling cars in the UK last year, the mercedes A-Class was number 5. Hardly cheap in comparison?
Yes, I agree that the price of new cars in general has crept up. It seems that manufacturers are hiking prices to make EV prices look more reasonable. The FIat 500 was under £10k when it first came out so if that was still the case, no-one would be paying almost £20k for a 500e.- Leasing and PCP have made new cars more accessible to 'average people'
- Plenty of new EV's available in the £20-25k bracket and others starting to drop under the £20k barrier like the Fiat 500e.
- New technology always starts at the top end as these things are expensive to produce until the cost benefits of true mass production kick in.
- A new Ford Fiesta starts at £16k, a new Golf £25k. They are 2 of the 3 top selling cars in the UK last year, the mercedes A-Class was number 5. Hardly cheap in comparison?
Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 23 February 22:40
I am personally not a fan of PCP. Yes, you can argue it makes cars accessible in that people only have to find the money to cover the depreciation, but then you're potentially on a never ending cycle of borrowing money. I say this having had a PCP in the past. Accessibility, but also an illusion in some respects.
I hope you're right that prices will come down over time, but it seems a long time coming based on when the first UK-built LEAFs hit the market and where we are now. Progress seems to have been minimal, other than some incremental improvements in range.
Would be less of an issue if the govt wasn't banning the sale of new non-EV vehicles in a few years' time.
Edited by 7n8n on Wednesday 24th February 09:38
aestetix1 said:
greggy50 said:
7n8n said:
All these cars are just way too expensive for the average person. £45k? GTFO.
Thats for a top of the range model?A base one will be more like £30k which is similar to an average specification Golf nowadays...
The only way it will be £30k is if the first edition gets massively discounted. It's not unprecedented, they discounted the old Ioniq a lot and Nissan will knock over £10k off a Leaf without even asking.
EV pricing has been silly for years.
The residuals should be fine its like comparing a Mid-Spec 1.5 Golf to a fully loaded Golf R they are based on the same platform but price wise are miles apart due to the difference in spec & performance.
Accoring to German magazine 'auto sport und motor' the 800v system in this car is the same as that being used by the Taycan. The technology has been developed by Rimac, which is part owned by both Porsche and Hyundai. Hence I suspect you could get an idea of charging rates / drop-off by looking at what the Taycan is currently delivering.
Personally I find this really interesting. The 800v system was for me the most interesting part of the Taycan and I was looking forward to it filtering through the VAG range. It looks like Hyundai will instead be the one to get it to the wider market.
Personally I find this really interesting. The 800v system was for me the most interesting part of the Taycan and I was looking forward to it filtering through the VAG range. It looks like Hyundai will instead be the one to get it to the wider market.
aestetix1 said:
It doesn't work that way.
For example, the Audi Turd is only 150kW but it's constant over the whole charging session, so overall it charges very quickly.
We need to see the charging curve before we can determine how fast it can charge, but from their statement of 10-80% in 18 minutes we can do some calculations.
70% of 76.2kWh is 50.82kWh. Let's say 50kWh. That would be an average speed of 166kW over the charging session, which is significantly faster than the current Tesla Model 3. And the Turd, for that matter.
First off, as someone who speaks French as a second language, I see the issue with the étron name. Still it's very childish and undercuts any valid point you're trying to make imo.For example, the Audi Turd is only 150kW but it's constant over the whole charging session, so overall it charges very quickly.
We need to see the charging curve before we can determine how fast it can charge, but from their statement of 10-80% in 18 minutes we can do some calculations.
70% of 76.2kWh is 50.82kWh. Let's say 50kWh. That would be an average speed of 166kW over the charging session, which is significantly faster than the current Tesla Model 3. And the Turd, for that matter.
The MAIN issue with the E-tron is that charging quickly isn't the point. The e-tron takes a lot of electricity, but charging for all practical purposes should be expressed in mph or km/h as that is what matters. That's where both the Tesla and Hyundai take the Audi and Porsche to school because of efficiency.
Hyundai have a great product on their hand, iirc they make the most frugal ev's on the market. So they don't need a high charge to add reasonable mileage. Add to that a possible impressive charging curve and it's virtually unbeatable.
7n8n said:
I thought the Ioniq 5 was Qashqai sized. Perhaps I've got this wrong?
It's 25cm longer than the Qashqai. It's about the same size as the Audi Q5 on the outside, but given the lack of an engine and longer wheelbase should be considerably larger inside.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 24th February 10:41
ZesPak said:
First off, as someone who speaks French as a second language, I see the issue with the étron name. Still it's very childish and undercuts any valid point you're trying to make imo.
The MAIN issue with the E-tron is that charging quickly isn't the point. The e-tron takes a lot of electricity, but charging for all practical purposes should be expressed in mph or km/h as that is what matters. That's where both the Tesla and Hyundai take the Audi and Porsche to school because of efficiency.
Hyundai have a great product on their hand, iirc they make the most frugal ev's on the market. So they don't need a high charge to add reasonable mileage. Add to that a possible impressive charging curve and it's virtually unbeatable.
Agree with all other than I would point out that the Taycan has proven to be way more efficient that the official figures.The MAIN issue with the E-tron is that charging quickly isn't the point. The e-tron takes a lot of electricity, but charging for all practical purposes should be expressed in mph or km/h as that is what matters. That's where both the Tesla and Hyundai take the Audi and Porsche to school because of efficiency.
Hyundai have a great product on their hand, iirc they make the most frugal ev's on the market. So they don't need a high charge to add reasonable mileage. Add to that a possible impressive charging curve and it's virtually unbeatable.
Dave_Rich said:
Agree with all other than I would point out that the Taycan has proven to be way more efficient that the official figures.
Good point. Compared to the TM3, even real world numbers suggest that the Taycan is about 15% more greedy (which is more than acceptable for a performance-oriented car).It still has to compensate for that in charging speeds, which I guess it does?
It's my pet peeve ever since I had to sit through an E-tron marketing presentation with them talking about nothing but the charge curve and charging speed in Kw, trouncing all the competition.
But the relevant numbers just showed that indeed the e-tron was very efficient at drawing a lot of power. Converting that power into motion however was secundary.
It would be more useful to quote charging speed as distance per unit time than energy per unit time, really. Although even that only helps if you can come up with an accurate definition of "range" which seems about as easy as coming up with an accurate definition of "economy" with an ICE car.
If this manages Hyundai's usual class-leading efficiency, it will probably out-strip most (if not all) other cars in terms of miles charged per minute.
If this manages Hyundai's usual class-leading efficiency, it will probably out-strip most (if not all) other cars in terms of miles charged per minute.
WLTP is more accurate than previously used measures, but there are still loads of variables which impact performance, so reflection of 'real life' via WLTP is still somewhat artificial.
This is the best descriptive of WLTP accuracy I've seen; https://www.vda.de/en/topics/environment-and-clima...
This is the best descriptive of WLTP accuracy I've seen; https://www.vda.de/en/topics/environment-and-clima...
kambites said:
It's 25cm longer than the Qashqai.
It's about the same size as the Audi Q5 on the outside, but given the lack of an engine and longer wheelbase should be considerably larger inside.
That's interesting. Hard to grasp the scale from those pictures (or maybe it's just my eyesight).It's about the same size as the Audi Q5 on the outside, but given the lack of an engine and longer wheelbase should be considerably larger inside.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 24th February 10:41
I'd be surprised if it had as much usable space as an Audi Q5, based on their Kona. Hopefully lessons will have been learned.
JonnyVTEC said:
See a few posts up - they share the same Rimac tech;chandrew said:
Accoring to German magazine 'auto sport und motor' the 800v system in this car is the same as that being used by the Taycan. The technology has been developed by Rimac, which is part owned by both Porsche and Hyundai. Hence I suspect you could get an idea of charging rates / drop-off by looking at what the Taycan is currently delivering.
Personally I find this really interesting. The 800v system was for me the most interesting part of the Taycan and I was looking forward to it filtering through the VAG range. It looks like Hyundai will instead be the one to get it to the wider market.
Personally I find this really interesting. The 800v system was for me the most interesting part of the Taycan and I was looking forward to it filtering through the VAG range. It looks like Hyundai will instead be the one to get it to the wider market.
7n8n said:
That's interesting. Hard to grasp the scale from those pictures (or maybe it's just my eyesight).
I'd be surprised if it had as much usable space as an Audi Q5, based on their Kona. Hopefully lessons will have been learned.
I think you'll be surprised then - you notable feature of this is the interior space. Watch the launch video or take a look at one of the many reviews - InsideEV, Car Wow, etc - they all pick up on it. Boot space (not including front boot) is on a par with a Q5.I'd be surprised if it had as much usable space as an Audi Q5, based on their Kona. Hopefully lessons will have been learned.
ZesPak said:
Hyundai have a great product on their hand, iirc they make the most frugal ev's on the market. So they don't need a high charge to add reasonable mileage. Add to that a possible impressive charging curve and it's virtually unbeatable.
However, the Ioniq 40kWh is slower over long distances with multiple charges than the 28kWh because they throttled the charging massively on the larger battery. ID3 dimensions from Google
4261 mm Length
1809 mm Width
1568 mm Height
2770 mm Wheelbase
Ioniq 5 dimensions from here https://ev-database.uk/car/1381/Hyundai-IONIQ-5-Pr...
4635 mm Length
1890 mm Width
1605 mm Height
3000 mm Wheelbase
So it's bigger than ID3.
4261 mm Length
1809 mm Width
1568 mm Height
2770 mm Wheelbase
Ioniq 5 dimensions from here https://ev-database.uk/car/1381/Hyundai-IONIQ-5-Pr...
4635 mm Length
1890 mm Width
1605 mm Height
3000 mm Wheelbase
So it's bigger than ID3.
had ham said:
800V stuff
they have similar strung the cells in series more than parallel to bump voltage. Im not sure it is super close to Rimac to call it a 'technology. Maybe its some of the 800 power electronics.My point was to share the real world effect, not endorse the googling you had done.
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