'Everyone I know who bought an electric car has gone back…’

[anonymous-user]

rscott said:

I'm 10 miles from the nearest large town, so public transport is pretty poor - would take me 2 hours to get to work by bus, compared with a 15 minute drive.
But there are plenty of EVs around here and even several Amazon EV Merc Sprinter vans (based 18 miles away in Ipswich) covering several rural areas.

I'm 16 minutes drive from work, so 32 minutes total travel time a day.
There are no public transport options that take me to work.
Best i can do is walk for over 1.5 hours and then get a bus for 36 minutes, which doesn't run at a time that fits with my work hours, or at all in many cases.

For millions of people not having personal transport and getting to work is impossible in practical terms.

[ZesPak]

jsf said:

I'm 16 minutes drive from work, so 32 minutes total travel time a day.
There are no public transport options that take me to work.
Best i can do is walk for over 1.5 hours and then get a bus for 36 minutes, which doesn't run at a time that fits with my work hours, or at all in many cases.

For millions of people not having personal transport and getting to work is impossible in practical terms.

Tbf, "not having a car" shouldn't equate to "not have personal transport".
Electric bicycles and the like make it a viable alternative for a lot of people. Whereas 10 miles on a bike would get you sweaty at the office, 10 miles on an e-bike doesn't.

[DodgyGeezer]

ZesPak said:

Electric bicycles and the like make it a viable alternative for a lot of people. Whereas 10 miles on a bike would get you sweaty at the office, 10 miles on an e-bike doesn't.

Apart from our weather's not really too helpful in that regard. Also even with electric assistance many people (especially older) just aren't that confident

[TheRainMaker]

Pica-Pica said:

rscott said:

DodgyGeezer said:

speedyguy said:

Being about 10 miles from a major city you may as well be on the moon when it comes to affordable,reliable public transport.

Absolutely this ^^^

WRT to public transport and why I don't like it.... it's not because I'd "have to travel with the proles", being as I'm not a powerfully built CD I'm a prole myself, it's that (in common with most people) private transport means I can go at a time of my choosing, have a temperature that's comfortable for me and be able to comfortably transport whatever it is that I need to transport.

I'm 10 miles from the nearest large town, so public transport is pretty poor - would take me 2 hours to get to work by bus, compared with a 15 minute drive.
But there are plenty of EVs around here and even several Amazon EV Merc Sprinter vans (based 18 miles away in Ipswich) covering several rural areas.

I am 10 miles from a town in either direction. The bus service is pretty good, and here in the countryside they will drop you off pretty much where you want.

I'm 9.5 miles from work in what you would call a Surrey suburb. It's a 20 min drive by car, 1 hour 25 min by public transport or a 49 min bike ride.

The bus stop I can see from my house and having lived here for eight years have never used it.

[ZesPak]

DodgyGeezer said:

ZesPak said:

Electric bicycles and the like make it a viable alternative for a lot of people. Whereas 10 miles on a bike would get you sweaty at the office, 10 miles on an e-bike doesn't.

Apart from our weather's not really too helpful in that regard. Also even with electric assistance many people (especially older) just aren't that confident

I say a lot of people. Not everyone.
It rains on average 1/3 of the days in the uk. Not great but it's still dry the majority of the time.

[RizzoTheRat]

DodgyGeezer said:

ZesPak said:

Electric bicycles and the like make it a viable alternative for a lot of people. Whereas 10 miles on a bike would get you sweaty at the office, 10 miles on an e-bike doesn't.

Apart from our weather's not really too helpful in that regard. Also even with electric assistance many people (especially older) just aren't that confident

Tell that to the Dutch or Danish The main problem with cycling in the UK is the attitude of many drivers and the lack of infrastructure.

However for all those people going on about there not being a public transport option to get to work, here's an idea...drive a car! Nobody's trying to stop you having a car, it's dense residential areas in cities that they're making it harder to own a car. For those further out, as ICE gradually gets phased out EV ranges are increasing and those in the country are more likely to have thier own driveway to charge one.

[ZesPak]

RizzoTheRat said:

Tell that to the Dutch or Danish The main problem with cycling in the UK is the attitude of many drivers and the lack of infrastructure.

However for all those people going on about there not being a public transport option to get to work, here's an idea...drive a car! Nobody's trying to stop you having a car, it's dense residential areas in cities that they're making it harder to own a car. For those further out, as ICE gradually gets phased out EV ranges are increasing and those in the country are more likely to have thier own driveway to charge one.

Indeed, I might be jaded working in the Netherlands for the best part of my professional life, but leaving your car on the outskirts and take public transport/bike/skates from there is practically the norm in some cities.

As for the rain, I had a similar situation doing a longer term contract in Brussels, took the motorcycle every day. On the days that it rained, I wouldn't do it because it's fun (on other days it beat going by car hands down), but I took the hit in comfort just because traffic would be twice as bad and parking impossible. In some city centers you have the choice of being dry and comfortable for an hour to get through it, or be wet and cold for 15 minutes. I'm just saying that "personal transport" doesn't have to equate to "car" as it seems to for some posters.

The discussion goes well beyond EV's, even though they are forcing us to rethink due to charging. But anyone who's been on the road for over a decade knows that the situation has gotten out of hand to the point where the car just isn't a viable solution in a lot of situations, but people are to entrenched in their habits they can't see an alternative.
If you live in center Amsterdam, your car is parked on the outskirts and you take another form of transport to your car. And if you don't work in center of Amsterdam, it's indeed far from the best place to live.

Edited by ZesPak on Monday 31st May 16:02

[anonymous-user]

ZesPak said:

Indeed, I might be jaded working in the Netherlands for the best part of my professional life, but leaving your car on the outskirts and take public transport/bike/skates from there is practically the norm in some cities.

Millions of people don't go anywhere near a city for work. Transport policy needs to cater for these millions of people.

[ChocolateFrog]

SWoll said:

emperorburger said:

My general observation is that EV's seem to be driven very sedately. I assume published range doesn't get anywhere close to reality if driven like an ICE. Range anxiety must be very stressful.

2 years and 25k miles of EV driving here. Gets driven no differently to previous ICE and never suffered with range anxiety.

You do need to consider if it suits your usage before buying, as with any purchase. Schmee is a perfect example, lives in Central London, can't charge at home, does regular long trips, buys a very inefficient EV with no dedicated network and then moans about it. What a muppet.

TBF I don't think we needed him to but an EV to prove that.

[ZesPak]

jsf said:

ZesPak said:

Indeed, I might be jaded working in the Netherlands for the best part of my professional life, but leaving your car on the outskirts and take public transport/bike/skates from there is practically the norm in some cities.

Millions of people don't go anywhere near a city for work. Transport policy needs to cater for these millions of people.

Of course. But we were talking about people with no prospect of being able to charge their car at home, I maybe jumped to the conclusion too fast that these were people in the city?

So the next question should be: how many people live outside the city and don't have a possibility of off street parking or a fixed parking spot?

[anonymous-user]

ZesPak said:

Of course. But we were talking about people with no prospect of being able to charge their car at home, I maybe jumped to the conclusion too fast that these were people in the city?

So the next question should be: how many people live outside the city and don't have a possibility of off street parking or a fixed parking spot?

I live in an average sized country village, there are loads of cars parked on every street, even those with private drives have multiple cars with one or more on the road.

[S600BSB]

6 months into my ipace lease and I love the thing. I do approx 1,000 miles a month and it is super quick, comfortable and cheap as chips to run from the home charger. The best thing though was how it performed over the winter in poor, snowy driving conditions. Just such a capable daily drive.

[anonymous-user]

S600BSB said:

6 months into my ipace lease and I love the thing. I do approx 1,000 miles a month and it is super quick, comfortable and cheap as chips to run from the home charger. The best thing though was how it performed over the winter in poor, snowy driving conditions. Just such a capable daily drive.

And well within the budget of everyone on the UK average wage Oh

[Jazzy Jag]

Sometimes I work from Home
Sometimes I have to visit Head office in the midlands
Most of the time I am all over the place, could be West Cornwall, Haverfordwest, Swindon, Aberystwyth or anywhere in between.

This happens all year round to Heater, HRW, Lights and other electrical loads are inevitable.

No EV is going to suit my needs, anytime soon.

[Kraken]

speedyguy said:

And well within the budget of everyone on the UK average wage Oh

It costs no more in real terms to buy a new electric car than it does a new petrol car. A person on the average UK wage can afford neither. There will be petrol and diesel cars on the 2nd hand market for decades and more and more electric cars become available every week on the same market.

[S600BSB]

Thats the thing - the range either works for you or it doesn't. I do a 206 mile round trip once a week. It's pretty much all motorway and I drive sensibly on cruise. Usually get home with about 30 miles range left. I have also got very good at brake regeneration!

[anonymous-user]

Kraken said:

It costs no more in real terms to buy a new electric car than it does a new petrol car. A person on the average UK wage can afford neither. There will be petrol and diesel cars on the 2nd hand market for decades and more and more electric cars become available every week on the same market.

With ever depleting battery condition. Buy a used ICE and you will not lose on it's original range, you cant say that for an EV.

Could we see second hand cars being scrapped 10 years earlier than the current fleet because of the costs of keeping them serviceable?

[ruggedscotty]

jsf said:

Kraken said:

It costs no more in real terms to buy a new electric car than it does a new petrol car. A person on the average UK wage can afford neither. There will be petrol and diesel cars on the 2nd hand market for decades and more and more electric cars become available every week on the same market.

With ever depleting battery condition. Buy a used ICE and you will not lose on it's original range, you cant say that for an EV.

Could we see second hand cars being scrapped 10 years earlier than the current fleet because of the costs of keeping them serviceable?

old news... read up on battery range in EV's

We’ve made a comprehensive guide of what each EV manufacturer offers:

Audi Eight years/100,000 miles
BMW Eight years/100,000 miles
Honda Eight years/100,000 miles
Hyundai Eight years/125,000 miles
Kia Seven years/100,000 miles
Mercedes Eight years/100,000 miles
MG Seven years/80000 miles
Jaguar Eight years/100,000 miles
Nissan Eight years/100,000 miles
Polestar Eight years/100,000 miles
Porsche Eight years/100,000 miles
Renault Eight years/100,000 miles
Seat Eight years/100,000 miles
Smart Eight years/62500 miles
Tesla Eight years/120,000 miles (150,000 miles for the Model S and Model X)
VW Eight years/100,000 miles
Volvo Eight years/ 100,000 miles

[Smiljan]

ruggedscotty said:

old news... read up on battery range in EV's

We’ve made a comprehensive guide of what each EV manufacturer offers:

Audi Eight years/100,000 miles
BMW Eight years/100,000 miles
Honda Eight years/100,000 miles
Hyundai Eight years/125,000 miles
Kia Seven years/100,000 miles
Mercedes Eight years/100,000 miles
MG Seven years/80000 miles
Jaguar Eight years/100,000 miles
Nissan Eight years/100,000 miles
Polestar Eight years/100,000 miles
Porsche Eight years/100,000 miles
Renault Eight years/100,000 miles
Seat Eight years/100,000 miles
Smart Eight years/62500 miles
Tesla Eight years/120,000 miles (150,000 miles for the Model S and Model X)
VW Eight years/100,000 miles
Volvo Eight years/ 100,000 miles

All very well, just a cursory glance at some of those warranties shows many deem 70% capacity as acceptable, any use they deem stresses the battery voids the warranty (Tesla do this for anyone doing track work as do Audi and BMW), and most require the owner to stick to the manufacturers defined maintenance program to keep the warranty in check. BMW are particularly sneaky voiding the battery warranty if "instructions in the owners manual aren't followed) ie - charging to full regularly or frequent rapid charging.

I'd expect most to attempt to wriggle out of their warranties using the wording that's clearly there. Tesla even crippled their Model S and X batteries via their famed software updates to avoid warranty claims.

Anyone who thinks EV's will become some sort of long lasting, maintenance free utopia are in for a shock - no pun intended.

So long as you understand this and go into the market eyes wide open (or just lease over and over again) then it's not a problem. Personally I would gamble buying a cheap EV in a few years time in the hope that any of those warranties would actually cover replacing that super expensive battery pack.

I've yet to see an EV model released that hasn't had any battery issues.

[gangzoom]

jsf said:

With ever depleting battery condition. Buy a used ICE and you will not lose on it's original range, you cant say that for an EV.

Could we see second hand cars being scrapped 10 years earlier than the current fleet because of the costs of keeping them serviceable?

Tesla are already selling a 'new' 90kWh battery (80kWh usable) packs for cars made since 2013. The cost is quite high at $20k fitted, but gives the cars a new range not far what you get from a Taycan.

There is no reason to scrap these cars, the batteries are designed to be replaced.