Estimating fuel cost
Discussion
survivalist said:
so called said:
kambites said:
Surely 2500kwh at 4.5p/kwh is £62.50?
No, £112.50.Before covid I was doing 24k miles/year
Ca., 7,200kWh / year @ 5p/kWh (Octopus Go) = £360.00
Before I bought the EV I was spending £24/day on petrol x 240 days/year = approx., ££5,760.00.
Savings in fuel pay for the car.
£360 for 24k miles = 1.5p/mile.
Edited by so called on Thursday 3rd June 13:36
Fuel costs were based on either TVR with mid to late 20's MPG.
Normal Day to Day usage in an RC 2020 Zoe:-
35% (17.5kwh) of Battery to cover c. 70 miles of mainly Motorway, not driven carefully in current warm weather
Octopus Go @ 5p overnight (charges it easily with a bit of time to spare)
Say 20kwh for a bit of heat loss in the charging process = 20 x 0.05 = £1 for 70 mile commute!!!!
Winter drops to more like 45%, so say 25kwh x 0.05 = £1.25
Not an i3, but not dissimilar. Love it!
And to top it off, just done a Cornwall run - 516 miles, 470 on the Motorway:
Temp 7-20degs both outbound and inbound (early starts!)
118 Miles to Cullompton, 35% left. £17.50 @ Ionity to get up to 85% - 45min stop
119 Miles to destination, showing 23% left, not driven that carefully but generally 70mph
A few more miles on arrival down to 18% and full 100% charge over 24hrs on a Granny Lead (15p x 45kwh = £6.75)
A few more miles down to 91% and full 100% charge overnight (15p x 6kwh = £1)
119 Miles to Cullompton, 34% left. £15.50 Ionity to get to 75% - 35min stop
118 Miles home, showing 18% again (will need 5p x 40kwh over two nights = £2)
Total holiday cost = £42-43 for 516 miles. In my old diesel at 12p a mile (realistic) - £62.
A few things:-
- We thought the A30 Exeter -> Penzance would eat juice as its uppy/downy, seemed to make no difference (regen?)
- Whilst not doing 80-90mph, we stuck to 70mph generally with a few spurts to nip in and out of traffic
- Generally driven like I stole it around the lanes and sweepy B roads of the Lands End peninsula (its great at this - really!)
- Average speed across the 516 miles showing 48mph, trip showing 4.0m/kwh and 100% range before we left showing 223 miles
- We used Ionity, its expensive, but we rarely charge off drive and the weekly savings mean its irrelevant in overall ownership
- We could have used the 50kwh at the leisure centre about a mile away and knocked £15 off this
- I'm guestimating but allowing for some losses on home charging
- Outbound - 1 other Taycan charging, Inbound - an ID3 and an i3 Charging. Both c. 08:30am.
Christ I'm sad thinking about all of this stuff!!!!!
35% (17.5kwh) of Battery to cover c. 70 miles of mainly Motorway, not driven carefully in current warm weather
Octopus Go @ 5p overnight (charges it easily with a bit of time to spare)
Say 20kwh for a bit of heat loss in the charging process = 20 x 0.05 = £1 for 70 mile commute!!!!
Winter drops to more like 45%, so say 25kwh x 0.05 = £1.25
Not an i3, but not dissimilar. Love it!
And to top it off, just done a Cornwall run - 516 miles, 470 on the Motorway:
Temp 7-20degs both outbound and inbound (early starts!)
118 Miles to Cullompton, 35% left. £17.50 @ Ionity to get up to 85% - 45min stop
119 Miles to destination, showing 23% left, not driven that carefully but generally 70mph
A few more miles on arrival down to 18% and full 100% charge over 24hrs on a Granny Lead (15p x 45kwh = £6.75)
A few more miles down to 91% and full 100% charge overnight (15p x 6kwh = £1)
119 Miles to Cullompton, 34% left. £15.50 Ionity to get to 75% - 35min stop
118 Miles home, showing 18% again (will need 5p x 40kwh over two nights = £2)
Total holiday cost = £42-43 for 516 miles. In my old diesel at 12p a mile (realistic) - £62.
A few things:-
- We thought the A30 Exeter -> Penzance would eat juice as its uppy/downy, seemed to make no difference (regen?)
- Whilst not doing 80-90mph, we stuck to 70mph generally with a few spurts to nip in and out of traffic
- Generally driven like I stole it around the lanes and sweepy B roads of the Lands End peninsula (its great at this - really!)
- Average speed across the 516 miles showing 48mph, trip showing 4.0m/kwh and 100% range before we left showing 223 miles
- We used Ionity, its expensive, but we rarely charge off drive and the weekly savings mean its irrelevant in overall ownership
- We could have used the 50kwh at the leisure centre about a mile away and knocked £15 off this
- I'm guestimating but allowing for some losses on home charging
- Outbound - 1 other Taycan charging, Inbound - an ID3 and an i3 Charging. Both c. 08:30am.
Christ I'm sad thinking about all of this stuff!!!!!
LordGrover said:
Heh. I've just switched from Porsche Boxster which was costing me £8.00 /day including everything bar depreciation (fuel, tax, servicing, warranty renewal and MOT). I was a little but shocked when I added it all up.
If there was no emotional tie, people would take public transport, walk, cycle, plus the occasional taxi or hire car. We all know that car ownership is a mug’s game, with depreciation the biggest hit.Pica-Pica said:
LordGrover said:
Heh. I've just switched from Porsche Boxster which was costing me £8.00 /day including everything bar depreciation (fuel, tax, servicing, warranty renewal and MOT). I was a little but shocked when I added it all up.
If there was no emotional tie, people would take public transport, walk, cycle, plus the occasional taxi or hire car. We all know that car ownership is a mug’s game, with depreciation the biggest hit.SWoll said:
Pica-Pica said:
LordGrover said:
Heh. I've just switched from Porsche Boxster which was costing me £8.00 /day including everything bar depreciation (fuel, tax, servicing, warranty renewal and MOT). I was a little but shocked when I added it all up.
If there was no emotional tie, people would take public transport, walk, cycle, plus the occasional taxi or hire car. We all know that car ownership is a mug’s game, with depreciation the biggest hit.
k that!Pixelpeep Z4 said:
SWoll said:
Pica-Pica said:
LordGrover said:
Heh. I've just switched from Porsche Boxster which was costing me £8.00 /day including everything bar depreciation (fuel, tax, servicing, warranty renewal and MOT). I was a little but shocked when I added it all up.
If there was no emotional tie, people would take public transport, walk, cycle, plus the occasional taxi or hire car. We all know that car ownership is a mug’s game, with depreciation the biggest hit.k that!k that' before we even start on shopping!!!!!Pica-Pica said:
LordGrover said:
Heh. I've just switched from Porsche Boxster which was costing me £8.00 /day including everything bar depreciation (fuel, tax, servicing, warranty renewal and MOT). I was a little but shocked when I added it all up.
If there was no emotional tie, people would take public transport, walk, cycle, plus the occasional taxi or hire car. We all know that car ownership is a mug’s game, with depreciation the biggest hit.It takes at least twice as long each way as a car journey.
Would you really want that?
Pica-Pica said:
If there was no emotional tie, people would take public transport, walk, cycle, plus the occasional taxi or hire car. We all know that car ownership is a mug’s game, with depreciation the biggest hit.
That may be true if you live in a city that can service your needs - I don't live in such an area, nor do I wish to do so. 
It's a bit like the naysayers knocking EVs; not enough range, impractical, too few public chargers, etc.. That may be true for some, but not me. My little i3 fulfills my needs beautifully.
LordGrover said:
Pica-Pica said:
If there was no emotional tie, people would take public transport, walk, cycle, plus the occasional taxi or hire car. We all know that car ownership is a mug’s game, with depreciation the biggest hit.
That may be true if you live in a city that can service your needs - I don't live in such an area, nor do I wish to do so. It's a bit like the naysayers knocking EVs; not enough range, impractical, too few public chargers, etc.. That may be true for some, but not me. My little i3 fulfills my needs beautifully.
LordGrover said:
That may be true if you live in a city that can service your needs - I don't live in such an area, nor do I wish to do so.
It's a bit like the naysayers knocking EVs; not enough range, impractical, too few public chargers, etc.. That may be true for some, but not me. My little i3 fulfills my needs beautifully.
A very very good point, I'm definitely in the Public Transport will never work for me. Unless I've had a pint or two, then miraculously its a wonderful thing It's a bit like the naysayers knocking EVs; not enough range, impractical, too few public chargers, etc.. That may be true for some, but not me. My little i3 fulfills my needs beautifully.
I parked next to an i3 whilst charging this morning - TBH first time I've really been up close to one - a new '21 plate. Thought actually what a cool, unpretentious, lovely looking thing it is. Amplified when you look at some of the horrors currently in the BMW range.
Shakes head.... if only BMW would continue the i8 and make it full EV.
dgswk said:
Pixelpeep Z4 said:
SWoll said:
Pica-Pica said:
LordGrover said:
Heh. I've just switched from Porsche Boxster which was costing me £8.00 /day including everything bar depreciation (fuel, tax, servicing, warranty renewal and MOT). I was a little but shocked when I added it all up.
If there was no emotional tie, people would take public transport, walk, cycle, plus the occasional taxi or hire car. We all know that car ownership is a mug’s game, with depreciation the biggest hit.k that!k that' before we even start on shopping!!!!!king great RRs block the roads! If you are lucky enough to have more than one car, and off-road parking, then an i3 is a great option for daily stuff - indeed it is our go to car these days, leaving the ICE for longer trips. Range anxiety simply doesn’t exist for us. We get around 170 miles on full charge after a night in the granny charger (3 pin plug) and never do more than.
I spend my time fettling and cherishing the ICE cars which I hope to keep for ever (never buying another ICE).
The i3 needs little care. Tyre pressures and washer fluid, and a pollen filter and brake fluid every 2 years. Result.
I spend my time fettling and cherishing the ICE cars which I hope to keep for ever (never buying another ICE).
The i3 needs little care. Tyre pressures and washer fluid, and a pollen filter and brake fluid every 2 years. Result.
Leicester Loyal said:
This might make me sound as thick as mince, but I genuinely had no idea that EVs were that cheap to run, that's insane!
I calculate the leaf at about 1.5p a mile if I have to pay to charge it. I charge it at work a lot of the time, so it really is almost free transport.
Suspect it’s depreciated ~2-3k over 25k miles and 4 years. Not bad.
After 5 years with our last small battery BEV i3, the total runing cost including:
depreciation
Insurance
electricity
Servicing
1 set of tyres
RFL (zero)
worked out at £50.41 a month over that duration.
Considering we bought the car with 367 miles on the clock (ex bmw demo) that is astonishing.
Fifty quid a month to drive a carbon fibre, rwd, sub 7 second premium car that is incredibly comfortable and safe.
Ok, we are never going to manage the same low figure with our new i3s, because when be bought the first one, literally nobody wanted an EV so BMW were giving them away (we paid £16k for a 9month old with 367 miles on the clock!) and so the depreciation was incredibly low (lost about £1.5k in 5 years)
Nothing needed doing to the car outside of the normal scheduled servicing and 1 set of tyres. The car did about 30k miles, and battery had zero degredation
depreciation
Insurance
electricity
Servicing
1 set of tyres
RFL (zero)
worked out at £50.41 a month over that duration.
Considering we bought the car with 367 miles on the clock (ex bmw demo) that is astonishing.
Fifty quid a month to drive a carbon fibre, rwd, sub 7 second premium car that is incredibly comfortable and safe.
Ok, we are never going to manage the same low figure with our new i3s, because when be bought the first one, literally nobody wanted an EV so BMW were giving them away (we paid £16k for a 9month old with 367 miles on the clock!) and so the depreciation was incredibly low (lost about £1.5k in 5 years)
Nothing needed doing to the car outside of the normal scheduled servicing and 1 set of tyres. The car did about 30k miles, and battery had zero degredation
BTW, i3 owners, the car will always try to AC charge immediately when plugged in, although normally that charge will be terminated after about 15 seconds. This is to:
1) check the EVSE is actually working as soon as it is plugged in
2) Establish the power capability of the EVSE
3) Carry out necessary EVSE and OBC system functional and safety checks (earthing, contactor state etc)
If the Nav is set with a destination and departure time, so the car knows how much energy you require, if you set the scheduled charging for say overnight cheap rate, this can get overidden if the system calculates insufficient time available in that period with the power of charger to which it has just been connected to supply that energy need and hence the car will stay charging.
The car may also stay charging if one of the following cases are true
1) The battery or motor system is too hot - it'll use the mains AC power for a bit to help run the pumps and fans to cool the powertrain down a bit
2) The 12v battery is at a low SoC - AC power will be used via the OBC and DC/DC to charge the 12v battery until it's SoC has reached an acceptable level
1) check the EVSE is actually working as soon as it is plugged in
2) Establish the power capability of the EVSE
3) Carry out necessary EVSE and OBC system functional and safety checks (earthing, contactor state etc)
If the Nav is set with a destination and departure time, so the car knows how much energy you require, if you set the scheduled charging for say overnight cheap rate, this can get overidden if the system calculates insufficient time available in that period with the power of charger to which it has just been connected to supply that energy need and hence the car will stay charging.
The car may also stay charging if one of the following cases are true
1) The battery or motor system is too hot - it'll use the mains AC power for a bit to help run the pumps and fans to cool the powertrain down a bit
2) The 12v battery is at a low SoC - AC power will be used via the OBC and DC/DC to charge the 12v battery until it's SoC has reached an acceptable level
Max_Torque said:
Ok, we are never going to manage the same low figure with our new i3s, because when be bought the first one, literally nobody wanted an EV so BMW were giving them away (we paid £16k for a 9month old with 367 miles on the clock!) and so the depreciation was incredibly low (lost about £1.5k in 5 years)
Thats pretty amazing really, I think the Nissan Leafs from that period were similar. From memory you could even get into a new Model S for sub £50K around 2015/16. EV costs do seem to have gone the wrong though in the last few years, and electricity costs are now going up, I some public rapid charging costs is now not far petrol costs. I remember working out fuel cost my old Leaf which managed 4.5 miles per kWh in summer at 5p per kWh on E7, as been 'cheaper' than me buying food to fuel my self on a pedal bike to cover the same distance!!
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 6th June 11:40
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