EVs on their way out?

[RizzoTheRat]

Hashtaggggg said:

I think "most" people living in cities would struggle to fill ups at home.

I would also guess that more people live in properties without driveways to charge their car than those who do.

There would be cable mayhem!

Only because the government/councils are way behind in resolving this non issue.
On street charge points are really common round here
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1094625,4.2787751,...

[Durzel]

Last I checked people didn't have petrol pumps directly outside their terraced houses either.

[ecksjay]

Hint. Government is rolling out EV chargers throughout the country. Won't be tomorrow ofcourse, but it's coming. Can't really give details but it's being sorted.

[rampageturke]

caymanbill said:

aestetix1 said:

LOL here we go again with the hydrogen nonsense. All the disadvantages of a fossil car, dubious environmental credentials.

Running electricity outside terrace houses... You may have noticed these tall grey poles on the street, with little lights attached to the top. You may also be surprised to learn they don't run on gas any more, they are electric!

Just on this point, is it not going to lead to a spiders web of cables, assuming you're a couple of cars away from the charing lamp?

The lights on my street are also only on one side. Not so bad eh? But you aren't allowed to park on that side.

It always irks me when people try and "gotcha" with the point about converting lamp posts. It's a decent solution, but not exactly something a consumer can do is it?

Anyway, this thread is a pile of st designed to bait people into yet another 40+ page of roundabout discussion.

[aestetix1]

caymanbill said:

Just on this point, is it not going to lead to a spiders web of cables, assuming you're a couple of cars away from the charing lamp?

Other countries have simply installed more charging posts.

[DJMC]

rampageturke said:

Anyway, this thread is a pile of st designed to bait people into yet another 40+ page of roundabout discussion.

The attitude of Beta-Max buyers in the 80's.

[aestetix1]

DJMC said:

Is it more convenient to have to stop your EV and charge somewhere for 45 minutes or to fill up on hydrogen in 4?

How much of your life have you wasted driving to petrol stations, filling up in the cold, paying, and then driving back again?

Once you actually own an EV and do most of your charging at home you realize that it takes up less of your time than pumping fossil fuels did.

Besides which with 200+ miles range by the time I need to charge I'm ready to eat and use the bathroom anyway. Ends up costing near zero additional time.

[sparkymark75]

Maybe you should watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IPR50-soNA

It's not as straightforward as just a different type of fuel in the tank.

[RizzoTheRat]

rampageturke said:

It always irks me when people try and "gotcha" with the point about converting lamp posts. It's a decent solution, but not exactly something a consumer can do is it?

Hence why the government/council's need to pull thier finger out. Here, when you buy an EV or PHEV, you register with the local council so they can match thier rollout of on street chargers to match the requirement.

[kambites]

DJMC said:

kambites said:

Well for me personally, an EV is just better in every way than a hydrogen car could ever be because it has the convenience that I can charge it at home. Why on earth would I want to pay far more to buy and run a far less convenient car?

If they're more convenient for you and you're happy to pay many times the running costs for that convenience, fill your boots. I think you'll be in a minority.

Is it more convenient to have to stop your EV and charge somewhere for 45 minutes or to fill up on hydrogen in 4?

No, it more convenient to spent 15-20 seconds plugging my car in in the comfort of my own garage once a week, than to take it to a filling station of any sort. Admittedly I do occasionally do journeys which couldn't be done with solely home charging... I think the last one was in 2009. The horror of waiting half a hour to charge a car once every 12 years!

Hydrogen would be the worst of all worlds for me. No interesting sound as you get from a decent ICE, none of the convenience of an EV. For me, the future will be a mixture of BEV and ICE.

Edited by kambites on Friday 18th June 13:35

[Evanivitch]

ecksjay said:

Hint. Government is rolling out EV chargers throughout the country. Won't be tomorrow ofcourse, but it's coming. Can't really give details but it's being sorted.

Not just government, but BP and Shell on their courtyards, Hitachi investing in Gridserve with motorway services and charging hub/service stations, and McDonald's, Costa, Starbucks, Tesco, Morrisons, Lidl all teamed with EV charging providers across their properties.

[Sten.]

I'm not in any rush to make the switch to EV, but I reckon if this thread is bumped in 10 years time it will give us all a good laugh.

[Smiljan]

RizzoTheRat said:

Hashtaggggg said:

I think "most" people living in cities would struggle to fill ups at home.

I would also guess that more people live in properties without driveways to charge their car than those who do.

There would be cable mayhem!

Only because the government/councils are way behind in resolving this non issue.
On street charge points are really common round here
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1094625,4.2787751,...

It's an interesting one, the lamppost charging method. In my area of Surrey the council upgraded all of our street lighting to low energy, remote controlled lighting such that many streets are actually unlit, partly lit or dimmed at certain hours of the night. The lighting itself came from a German company and they're effectively leased not bought.

This was all done to hit CO2 targets and reduce electricity consumption. I'm not sure they'll be keen only a couple of years later to throw it all away and start modifying them to add in car chargers.

There are still issues with many people (myself included) where charging is not convenient or even possible at work or at home and charging speeds are actually a reason to be reluctant to adopt an EV over an ICE vehicle. Time and time again it's been proven that public charging is currently an expensive shambles (excepting Tesla chargers).

Hydrogen power actually does make a lot of sense over battery only vehicles for some categories of vehicles and use type and simply dismissing it for any vehicle is almost as daft as suggesting EV's are on the way out just as they're getting started.

I really hope the battery tech does improve quickly to make them lighter, more stable and quicker to charge but the signs aren't encouraging at all. Lets hope there really is a leap in the tech soon and not just the current constant dribble of unfulfilled promises.

[kambites]

Smiljan said:

Hydrogen power actually does make a lot of sense over battery only vehicles for some categories of vehicles and use type and simply dismissing it for any vehicle is almost as daft as suggesting EV's are on the way out just as they're getting started.

Hydrogen is clearly never going to form the majority of the personal transport market but that doesn't mean that it wont have its uses.

[Smiljan]

Yup, I think the tide is turning on that opinion at last. For buses, trucks, tow vehicles etc... it's much more viable that using massive battery packs and all of the issues that come with them.

Unless there's a sudden leap in energy density, weight and charging speeds for battery packs then hydrogen will for sure play a part of future vehicles.

[ecs]

A hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is an EV

[kambites]

Smiljan said:

Yup, I think the tide is turning on that opinion at last.

Is it? I think most people have always accepted that heavy haulage, shipping, aviation, etc. are unlikely to be able to rely entirely on batteries.

[DodgyGeezer]

TheDrownedApe said:

caymanbill said:

Just on this point, is it not going to lead to a spiders web of cables, assuming you're a couple of cars away from the charing lamp?

Eventually you will be able to charge at "charging stations" in about 5-10 mins and in multiple other places you visit on a weekly basis with no need for home charging IF it's difficult for you.

Just checked Mr Jeeves and it seems 75% have access to off road parking (although i don't know if this is accurate etc)

"We analysed all 27 million households in Great Britain to understand whether they can or cannot park and charge an electric vehicle off street at home. Through this research, we determined that a staggering 24.6% of households don’t have access to off street parking."

In all honesty I'm quite surprised that only 25% don't have access to off-street parking

[Smiljan]

kambites said:

Smiljan said:

Yup, I think the tide is turning on that opinion at last.

Is it? I think most people have always accepted that heavy haulage, shipping, aviation, etc. are unlikely to be able to rely entirely on batteries.

Unfortunately some high profile people with heavy investment in battery tech have pedaled the idea that they are "fool cells" and "stupid" and those who aren't capable of independent thought take this as gospel and spew out the same misinformation whenever hydrogen fuel cells are mentioned.

I'm seeing this narrative change in many places so yes, I do believe that tide may be turning.

Depends what you're trying to sell and why to what you'll push. There is, in reality, a need and a market for both forms of power.

[kambites]

True, but I don't personally think that need extends to personal road transport for a significant proportion of the market. If we ever see more than 5% of privately owned cars powered by hydrogen I'd be amazed. If I had to guess I'd say it'll settle out at less than 1%.