Batteries are not the Solution, Synthetic Fuels maybe
Discussion
Gary C said:
Crikey
The website reads like the thorium powered car one, lots of perfect claims and wonderous solutions.
Is there a peer review of their tech anywhere ?
Seems to good to be true.
No mention of what their tech is or how it works.The website reads like the thorium powered car one, lots of perfect claims and wonderous solutions.
Is there a peer review of their tech anywhere ?
Seems to good to be true.
Lots of waffle and science-like big words.
Many implausible claims.
I'll wait.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Sandy, the man nobody had heard of a year ago, built a business doing tear downs for legacy auto making him part of the history and who’s suddenly clocked his pension fund is making Tesla positive videos (having originally done negative ones). It’s like watching Gruber talk about the future if the classic car industry and how your million pound db5 will be worth scrap value in 5 years. If we want to listen to anybody it’s a credible visionary who hasn’t personally got a product to sell. The future of the power plant is probably sitting in a lab somewhere, micro nuclear fusion if we want electricity to drive motors, but maybe electric motors aren’t even the answer - it’s like steam engines and talking about better ways to make and store steam separate to the motor that drives you, perhaps the process of releasing the energy itself creating movement and that’s where we will end up, more akin to a petrol engine but total network efficiency higher and lighter than current EVs.
Munroe & Associates have been around for decades. The reason most of us won't have heard of them are that most of us don't work for OEMs I'd imagine. Can't deny the man's accomplishments and history - he knows of what he speaks as far as product design/production engineering goes.
As for the H2 8 track system.... I'd want to see some more details of how it captures Hydrogen, from where, how long that source will be available as we steadily clean up our act, how long it lasts in the real world and a good few other practical questions that sadly, are usually the downfall of a lot of really great ideas.
The linked website does look a bit fluffy though, sad to say.
Even if it did work 100% as advertised....still going to need some battery or super capacitor storage to help that HFC cope, plus the HFC of course. I do hope this doesn't get twisted into yet another way to save ICE, with folk getting all excited about the prospect of an H2 burning ICE...... (yes, it's been done, it's crap)
As for the H2 8 track system.... I'd want to see some more details of how it captures Hydrogen, from where, how long that source will be available as we steadily clean up our act, how long it lasts in the real world and a good few other practical questions that sadly, are usually the downfall of a lot of really great ideas.
The linked website does look a bit fluffy though, sad to say.
Even if it did work 100% as advertised....still going to need some battery or super capacitor storage to help that HFC cope, plus the HFC of course. I do hope this doesn't get twisted into yet another way to save ICE, with folk getting all excited about the prospect of an H2 burning ICE...... (yes, it's been done, it's crap)
I certainly don't have the answer but I wonder if there is enough battery raw materials to supply the demand for new electric vehicles at the rate we as a nation get through new cars. How many are sold each year? Must run into the millions?
Maybe, if there isn’t such an endless supply, people will treat their cars less like white goods and keep them for longer. Somehow I doubt it though
Maybe, if there isn’t such an endless supply, people will treat their cars less like white goods and keep them for longer. Somehow I doubt it though
Oilchange said:
I certainly don't have the answer but I wonder if there is enough battery raw materials to supply the demand for new electric vehicles at the rate we as a nation get through new cars. How many are sold each year? Must run into the millions?
Maybe, if there isn’t such an endless supply, people will treat their cars less like white goods and keep them for longer. Somehow I doubt it though
The rarer components are lithium and cobalt. They're already producing cobalt free batteries in some Tesla plants (China?) Maybe, if there isn’t such an endless supply, people will treat their cars less like white goods and keep them for longer. Somehow I doubt it though
It's possible to recover these when recycling old batteries too, so I don't think there are too many supply issues long term.
Watched this the other day. A lot of potential....potentially, but it was telling that when asked 'how much is there', the reply was rather lacking in specifics. Lots of reasons why that may have been of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbzL09SoHdo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbzL09SoHdo
Prompted by the MgHx thing, I wondered how plentiful Magnesium was.
Interestingly, and somewhat worryingly, the biggest reserves are in Russia, North Korea(!) then China.
China are the key global suppliers and it’s an energy and labour intensive process to get to the metal from the ore.
It seems there just aren’t any good answers doesn’t it…..
Interestingly, and somewhat worryingly, the biggest reserves are in Russia, North Korea(!) then China.
China are the key global suppliers and it’s an energy and labour intensive process to get to the metal from the ore.
It seems there just aren’t any good answers doesn’t it…..
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Another totally implausible statement.So they may have a new hydrogen storage technology, but the rest of that website is implausible gobbledegook.
If their storage technology is as good as they claim, why all the bulls
t claims about where the hydrogen comes from?anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's their claim, not mine.
"The second mistake may be not to realise that their system is a passive 'mop' or 'sponge' that isn't ripping molecules apart and is 'binding' or maybe absorbing or adsorbing instead."
If the hydrogen is bound in a molecule, you absolutely have to "rip it apart" to get hydrogen to store.
As I said, the storage technology is interesting, but they lose all credibility with me by making extravagant and improbable claims about where the hydrogen comes from.
That’s the sort of thing I was getting at when I asked about details, those devilish wee things….
The rendering looked a bit like an 8 track style device with a flexible substrate (tape) carrying the Mg surface treatment on it. Not sure how that is supposed to survive in the flue of a powerstation etc while it’s being recharged.
Some actual working demonstrations might be nice, along with some more details about just how much hydrogen they think their system can capture in relation to the global demand for it, assuming it became the energy store of choice, and how much energy it’ll take to do so (I’m not buying the zero myself).
If it all panned out 100% it could find a place in a mixture of solutions for sure, but I’ll not hold my breath on this one any more than the frequently touted but yet to appear alternative battery chemistries.
The rendering looked a bit like an 8 track style device with a flexible substrate (tape) carrying the Mg surface treatment on it. Not sure how that is supposed to survive in the flue of a powerstation etc while it’s being recharged.
Some actual working demonstrations might be nice, along with some more details about just how much hydrogen they think their system can capture in relation to the global demand for it, assuming it became the energy store of choice, and how much energy it’ll take to do so (I’m not buying the zero myself).
If it all panned out 100% it could find a place in a mixture of solutions for sure, but I’ll not hold my breath on this one any more than the frequently touted but yet to appear alternative battery chemistries.
Chris-S said:
That’s the sort of thing I was getting at when I asked about details, those devilish wee things….
The rendering looked a bit like an 8 track style device with a flexible substrate (tape) carrying the Mg surface treatment on it. Not sure how that is supposed to survive in the flue of a powerstation etc while it’s being recharged.
Some actual working demonstrations might be nice, along with some more details about just how much hydrogen they think their system can capture in relation to the global demand for it, assuming it became the energy store of choice, and how much energy it’ll take to do so (I’m not buying the zero myself).
If it all panned out 100% it could find a place in a mixture of solutions for sure, but I’ll not hold my breath on this one any more than the frequently touted but yet to appear alternative battery chemistries.
Seems ironic that their 'carbon free' solution requires sticking the the chimney stack of a fossil fired power station.The rendering looked a bit like an 8 track style device with a flexible substrate (tape) carrying the Mg surface treatment on it. Not sure how that is supposed to survive in the flue of a powerstation etc while it’s being recharged.
Some actual working demonstrations might be nice, along with some more details about just how much hydrogen they think their system can capture in relation to the global demand for it, assuming it became the energy store of choice, and how much energy it’ll take to do so (I’m not buying the zero myself).
If it all panned out 100% it could find a place in a mixture of solutions for sure, but I’ll not hold my breath on this one any more than the frequently touted but yet to appear alternative battery chemistries.
Gary C said:
Seems ironic that their 'carbon free' solution requires sticking the the chimney stack of a fossil fired power station.
Indeed. “Sorry, can’t shut down the coal fired power station, we need it to generate green hydrogen”If it was used to clean up the outflow then it’s laudable, but still a short-term deal, surely?
Chris-S said:
Gary C said:
Seems ironic that their 'carbon free' solution requires sticking the the chimney stack of a fossil fired power station.
Indeed. “Sorry, can’t shut down the coal fired power station, we need it to generate green hydrogen”If it was used to clean up the outflow then it’s laudable, but still a short-term deal, surely?
What is the gas that they are getting their free hydrogen from?
AW111 said:
I still can't see where the tons of hydrogen in the flue gasses comes from.
What is the gas that they are getting their free hydrogen from?
Neither can I, but it's over 40 years since I did any chemistry so I'd rather not speculate!!What is the gas that they are getting their free hydrogen from?
I found this piece about producing H2 and sequestering CO2 from flu gases.
The production of hydrogen and the fixation of CO2 can be achieved by treatment of flue gases derived from fossil fuel fired power plants via catalytic methane tri-reforming or by coal gasification in the presence of CaO. A two-step process is designed to be carried out in two reactors: a) a catalytic gasifier or steam-reformer, operating exothermally at 900–1000 K, with inputs of the flue gas, a carbonaceous source, steam and air, as well as CaO from the calciner, and outputs of H2, and of “spent” CaCO3 to the calciner; b) a calciner, operating endothermally at 1100–1300 K, with inputs of spent CaCO3 from the gasifier, make-up fresh CaCO3, and outputs of CO2, as well as of CaO, partly recycled to the gasifier and partly processed in a cement plant. Thermochemical equilibrium calculations along with mass/energy balances indicate that for flue-gas treatment by tri-reforming, CO2 emission avoidance of up to ∼59% and fossil fuel savings of up to ∼75% may be attained when concentrated solar energy is supplied as high-temperature process heat for the calcination step, all relative to conventional H2 production by coal gasification. If instead fossil fuel would be used to drive the calcination step, the CO2 emission avoidance and the fuel savings would be only 20% and 67%, respectively. Estimated annual H2 production from a coal-fired 500 MWe burner by the proposed flue-gas treatment using either CH4-tri-reforming or coal gasification would amount to 0.7 × 106 or 0.6 × 106 metric tons H2, respectively. Estimated fossil fuel consumption for H2 production by tri-reforming or coke gasification would be 149 or 143 GJ fuel/ton H2.
So, as long as we run coal fired power stations, we'll be good then.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Indeed, they aren’t limited to using waste sources, but they are certainly over egging the pudding in that direction I feel.Maybe they felt just focusing on the tech as a means of transport wasn’t enough to get the money they want?
Me too, need to see some actual practical demonstrations before getting too excited about it. Both ends of the process too, filling the sponge and squeezing it out again. Longevity of the materials used and overall cost/burden.
It could be a real breakthrough and make an HFC car a plausible solution for personal transport, but first it needs to answer those fundamental questions with practical demonstrations.
rscott said:
It's 12 years since they demonstrated the tech to the US DoE, yet there's no publicly available footage of any other demos, pictures of prototypes, etc.
I think this best filed alongside all the other hype about amazing improvements in battery tech.
Hah, for some reason I got the impression this was a recent thing.I think this best filed alongside all the other hype about amazing improvements in battery tech.
12 years and no more than a fluffy website….don’t think it’s going anywhere is it. Shame.
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