EVs as Company cars
Discussion
oop north said:
For total risk free you can go through on.to (one month notice and everything is included - insurance, maintenance and even charging with Instavolt and two other networks) but they have pretty limited choice and availability. And their fully inclusive nature makes them look expensive
We're with them at the minute, but could be changing based on their price changes over the next few months.Very random pricing wise, with the Tesla models in particular being massively overpriced and their leasing 'comparisons' being far from accurate.
Here's what they reckon it would cost to lease a £48.5k Model 3 LR on a 3 +23, 12k per mile deal
And the reality
Versus an £80k Audi eTron 55 Black Edition (that they want the same amount for each month)
And the reality
Countdown said:
That sounds interesting - however wouldn't the person who took over the 2nd hand lease then have to go to the expense of installing a home charger even though they might only have the car for a few months?
A charge point isn't a necessity for having an EV. I didn't have one for the first six months of ownership, and arguably I don't really need one now. It's just more convenient than using the three-pin adapter.As far as OZEV grant application, you can claim against a secondhand car, as long as you've not claimed before at that address I believe.
Countdown said:
SWoll said:
That's all covered as part of the agreement with the SS company, the same as has always been the case with more traditional company cars if they can't foist them on someone else in the business?
Indeed. The thing is these aren't company cars (apologies for a misleading thread title). Staff effectively want to PCP through the company so they can save on Tax and NI. Great for them, a ballache for us.....SWoll said:
We're with them at the minute, but could be changing based on their price changes over the next few months.
Very random pricing wise, with the Tesla models in particular being massively overpriced and their leasing 'comparisons' being far from accurate.
Here's what they reckon it would cost to lease a £48.5k Model 3 LR on a 3 +23, 12k per mile deal
Example images removed from quote
Don't forget you need to add insurance and maintenance (inc tyres) onto the lease to match the On.to price, and Tesla insurance ain't cheap. FWIW, the On.to price is pretty much the same as my gross deduction for an M3P on salary sacrifice, that also includes tyres, maintenance, and insurance for my spouse and I to drive.Very random pricing wise, with the Tesla models in particular being massively overpriced and their leasing 'comparisons' being far from accurate.
Here's what they reckon it would cost to lease a £48.5k Model 3 LR on a 3 +23, 12k per mile deal
Example images removed from quote
CheesecakeRunner said:
A charge point isn't a necessity for having an EV. I didn't have one for the first six months of ownership, and arguably I don't really need one now. It's just more convenient than using the three-pin adapter.
As far as OZEV grant application, you can claim against a secondhand car, as long as you've not claimed before at that address I believe.
As far as OZEV grant application, you can claim against a secondhand car, as long as you've not claimed before at that address I believe.
Been running EV's for over 2 years, covered 25k miles and rarely public charge, all from a 3 pin plug.
For a company car I'd expect a proper solution though, and even 7kW enough to fully charge most EV's overnight.
CheesecakeRunner said:
SWoll said:
We're with them at the minute, but could be changing based on their price changes over the next few months.
Very random pricing wise, with the Tesla models in particular being massively overpriced and their leasing 'comparisons' being far from accurate.
Here's what they reckon it would cost to lease a £48.5k Model 3 LR on a 3 +23, 12k per mile deal
Example images removed from quote
Don't forget you need to add insurance and maintenance (inc tyres) onto the lease to match the On.to price. FWIW, the On.to price is pretty much the same as my gross deduction for an M3P on salary sacrifice, that also includes tyres, maintenance, and insurance for my spouse and I to drive.Very random pricing wise, with the Tesla models in particular being massively overpriced and their leasing 'comparisons' being far from accurate.
Here's what they reckon it would cost to lease a £48.5k Model 3 LR on a 3 +23, 12k per mile deal
Example images removed from quote
SWoll said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
SWoll said:
We're with them at the minute, but could be changing based on their price changes over the next few months.
Very random pricing wise, with the Tesla models in particular being massively overpriced and their leasing 'comparisons' being far from accurate.
Here's what they reckon it would cost to lease a £48.5k Model 3 LR on a 3 +23, 12k per mile deal
Example images removed from quote
Don't forget you need to add insurance and maintenance (inc tyres) onto the lease to match the On.to price. FWIW, the On.to price is pretty much the same as my gross deduction for an M3P on salary sacrifice, that also includes tyres, maintenance, and insurance for my spouse and I to drive.Very random pricing wise, with the Tesla models in particular being massively overpriced and their leasing 'comparisons' being far from accurate.
Here's what they reckon it would cost to lease a £48.5k Model 3 LR on a 3 +23, 12k per mile deal
Example images removed from quote
CheesecakeRunner said:
Oh right, last I saw Onto were doing the same price for the P and LR.
Not anymore apparently. Holding out with ours at £799 a month till the bitter end though. 
sparkymark75 said:
I'm sure I read the other day that around 65% of EVs in the UK are via a company car/salary sacrifice. Great incentives for getting an EV via that route. Not so much for private purchasers.
Makes sense really, CC drivers are far more likely to be doing big mileages.sparkymark75 said:
I'm sure I read the other day that around 65% of EVs in the UK are via a company car/salary sacrifice. Great incentives for getting an EV via that route. Not so much for private purchasers.
Tbh I find 35% of EV's being private hard to fathom! Or am I missing something?ZesPak said:
Tbh I find 35% of EV's being private hard to fathom! Or am I missing something?
I have no scientific evidence either way but from being on various Facebook EV groups that is not at all surprising. There are plenty of people with EVs that aren’t company cars. Most over three years old will be private for a startMy first was a company car because of the perceived risk of depreciation at the time (2015), BIK wasn't cheap and the lease was high at the time, a MS 90D was if I recall about £1550 a month, effectively unlimited miles and any driver. Cost me about £800 a month after tax savings.
Next was a private purchase, year old MS P90DL - bought for about £70k v £140k for the at the time top model P100D - even on the company the new car didn't make sense, BIK was still higher than today and I did consider putting the used car into the company but the 45p a mile made it worth staying out.
That car is about to make way for a M3 (due ot reliability and its now out of warranty) and again I thought about it, but given one of my sidelines I got notification of a CPO 1 year old M3 LR with all the bits (EAP, Accel boost and Tow) for about £12k below the new list price for a new car and about £3k below the market (who says they don't depreciate?). As the company benefits are effectively depreciation set off against tax, and the 45p a mile thing still holds true, the market needs to tank for it to have been worth putting through the company. It should certainly be cheaper than leasing a new one. Ironically, despite not being a company car, its actually going to be used by the company directly on a series of articles that are coming up.
Following the Tesla facebook group I'd say its nearer 50/50. I think a lot of Model 3 owners are just getting them because of BIK and thats a worry for the future when they all fall off the end of the company car lease. In the old days, it tended to be older early adopters who got into them before the BIKs were favourable, some with, shall we say, private incomes that aren't necessarily limited companies, and others who almost had them as second cars.
Next was a private purchase, year old MS P90DL - bought for about £70k v £140k for the at the time top model P100D - even on the company the new car didn't make sense, BIK was still higher than today and I did consider putting the used car into the company but the 45p a mile made it worth staying out.
That car is about to make way for a M3 (due ot reliability and its now out of warranty) and again I thought about it, but given one of my sidelines I got notification of a CPO 1 year old M3 LR with all the bits (EAP, Accel boost and Tow) for about £12k below the new list price for a new car and about £3k below the market (who says they don't depreciate?). As the company benefits are effectively depreciation set off against tax, and the 45p a mile thing still holds true, the market needs to tank for it to have been worth putting through the company. It should certainly be cheaper than leasing a new one. Ironically, despite not being a company car, its actually going to be used by the company directly on a series of articles that are coming up.
Following the Tesla facebook group I'd say its nearer 50/50. I think a lot of Model 3 owners are just getting them because of BIK and thats a worry for the future when they all fall off the end of the company car lease. In the old days, it tended to be older early adopters who got into them before the BIKs were favourable, some with, shall we say, private incomes that aren't necessarily limited companies, and others who almost had them as second cars.
Private Zoe EV for my wife, on a 16k miles a year lease. Saves us £100 a month over a similar spec ICE when you take fuel costs v. electric costs into account, and its a hell of a lot nicer to drive in Birmingham traffic. EV does make sense to privateers with reasonably high miles.
Company Polestar 2 for me - purely for BiK. Its cost neutral with running a diesel shed / car allowance / 25k miles a year of diesel etc etc etc. Why wouldn't you?
The business I work for leases in excess of 2,500 vehicles in the UK, across 25,000 employees, the majority are 'Operational Vehicles' - it is what it is, choose the colour if your lucky (Sales, Engineers, Regional Managers), then a few like the Polestar are 'Perk Vehicles' where the employee gets to choose but from a very select list of low BiK Electric and Hybrid vehicles.
They don't operate a Salary Sacrifice scheme for all the reasons outlined in previous posts (I did ask last year) - insurance, people leaving 6 months into a 3 year contract, accident damage, excess miles, administration, and also duty of care to the employee (health and safety) over what is ultimately a company vehicle and not a private one.
They looked at it, seriously, as a means to attract people, but after years of bitter experience of normal company car drivers ordering something very bespoke, which after they leave, nobody else wants and costs a fortune to early terminate. And the usual crowd who just abuse it for 3 years and get a whopping bill at the end.
Gotta say, if it was my business, I'd be very very cautious knowing what employees can be like, unless it was for a very select few.
Company Polestar 2 for me - purely for BiK. Its cost neutral with running a diesel shed / car allowance / 25k miles a year of diesel etc etc etc. Why wouldn't you?
The business I work for leases in excess of 2,500 vehicles in the UK, across 25,000 employees, the majority are 'Operational Vehicles' - it is what it is, choose the colour if your lucky (Sales, Engineers, Regional Managers), then a few like the Polestar are 'Perk Vehicles' where the employee gets to choose but from a very select list of low BiK Electric and Hybrid vehicles.
They don't operate a Salary Sacrifice scheme for all the reasons outlined in previous posts (I did ask last year) - insurance, people leaving 6 months into a 3 year contract, accident damage, excess miles, administration, and also duty of care to the employee (health and safety) over what is ultimately a company vehicle and not a private one.
They looked at it, seriously, as a means to attract people, but after years of bitter experience of normal company car drivers ordering something very bespoke, which after they leave, nobody else wants and costs a fortune to early terminate. And the usual crowd who just abuse it for 3 years and get a whopping bill at the end.
Gotta say, if it was my business, I'd be very very cautious knowing what employees can be like, unless it was for a very select few.
One would hope that the salary sacrifice option would assist in retaining staff so has to be considered in balance. With regards to damage/excess mileage assuming its in the contract the employee signs then wouldn't you just dock it from their final pay packet?
Again, how is it any different from the traditional company car challenges companies have been dealing with for years? The only reason people are so keen now is the lack of BIK on EV's.
Again, how is it any different from the traditional company car challenges companies have been dealing with for years? The only reason people are so keen now is the lack of BIK on EV's.
SWoll said:
One would hope that the salary sacrifice option would assist in retaining staff so has to be considered in balance. With regards to damage/excess mileage assuming its in the contract the employee signs then wouldn't you just dock it from their final pay packet?
Again, how is it any different from the traditional company car challenges companies have been dealing with for years? The only reason people are so keen now is the lack of BIK on EV's.
It was mainly the "traditional company car challenges we have been dealing with for years!"Again, how is it any different from the traditional company car challenges companies have been dealing with for years? The only reason people are so keen now is the lack of BIK on EV's.
Couple that with an expanding fleet and the admin (albeit you outsource this) and the fact that it was viewed that the EV BiK thing is only a 3-4 year blip to gain mainstream adoption into fleets. It was viewed as not worth the hassle.
Someone leaves in our business, you agree a severance package, redundancy, notice whatever, sign on the line and go. Not a lot of time to turn any damage around with the lease company and reclaim it. So you're then into holding monies back, with people who you probably just want gone, may even have grievances to deal with. Massive PITA.
These schemes have not really been around that long - couple of years perhaps, so many businesses are not yet seeing the end of term hassles and reclaiming damage? Not sure.
That was our view - and not viewed by the senior senior management as something that would sufficiently influence people to stay etc.
Naive? Who knows. I certainly wouldn't be tempted to jump ship for it for sure, its a temporary gimmick in a long term career plan. But maybe I'm too old, wise and miserable!
dgswk said:
It was mainly the "traditional company car challenges we have been dealing with for years!"
Couple that with an expanding fleet and the admin (albeit you outsource this) and the fact that it was viewed that the EV BiK thing is only a 3-4 year blip to gain mainstream adoption into fleets. It was viewed as not worth the hassle.
Someone leaves in our business, you agree a severance package, redundancy, notice whatever, sign on the line and go. Not a lot of time to turn any damage around with the lease company and reclaim it. So you're then into holding monies back, with people who you probably just want gone, may even have grievances to deal with. Massive PITA.
These schemes have not really been around that long - couple of years perhaps, so many businesses are not yet seeing the end of term hassles and reclaiming damage? Not sure.
That was our view - and not viewed by the senior senior management as something that would sufficiently influence people to stay etc.
Naive? Who knows. I certainly wouldn't be tempted to jump ship for it for sure, its a temporary gimmick in a long term career plan. But maybe I'm too old, wise and miserable!
All of this. Couple that with an expanding fleet and the admin (albeit you outsource this) and the fact that it was viewed that the EV BiK thing is only a 3-4 year blip to gain mainstream adoption into fleets. It was viewed as not worth the hassle.
Someone leaves in our business, you agree a severance package, redundancy, notice whatever, sign on the line and go. Not a lot of time to turn any damage around with the lease company and reclaim it. So you're then into holding monies back, with people who you probably just want gone, may even have grievances to deal with. Massive PITA.
These schemes have not really been around that long - couple of years perhaps, so many businesses are not yet seeing the end of term hassles and reclaiming damage? Not sure.
That was our view - and not viewed by the senior senior management as something that would sufficiently influence people to stay etc.
Naive? Who knows. I certainly wouldn't be tempted to jump ship for it for sure, its a temporary gimmick in a long term career plan. But maybe I'm too old, wise and miserable!
Company car schemes have changed a lot of the years, as have HR benefits in general. My first company car when I was 25 was the previous incumbant of the position which I had to see to the end of the lease (cheap to run) Over time HR benefits swung to be employee focused especially in a big companies The trend is reversing though as the general taxation policy is increasingly the higher of the HMRC rate or the true cost, EV's being an exception. They could easily keep the low BIK but change the exemption rules so you can get low BIK but thoe who qualify for it changes. The EV company car bubble would probably burst quite quickly for many if they did, and its not like the gov are flush with cash at the moment.
It maybe an industry/seniority thing, I work in IT and we've been looking to recruit for some relatively senior positions over the past couple of months.
Feedback during and post interview from a number of candidates has been around a lack of solution in this area compared to some of our biggest competitors and in a very competitive job market that has definitely cost us IMHO.
Whilst no-one expects the current situation to last forever, "make hay while the sun shines" seems to be the general consensus..
Feedback during and post interview from a number of candidates has been around a lack of solution in this area compared to some of our biggest competitors and in a very competitive job market that has definitely cost us IMHO.
Whilst no-one expects the current situation to last forever, "make hay while the sun shines" seems to be the general consensus..
SWoll said:
It maybe an industry/seniority thing, I work in IT and we've been looking to recruit for some relatively senior positions over the past couple of months.
Feedback during and post interview from a number of candidates has been around a lack of solution in this area compared to some of our biggest competitors and in a very competitive job market that has definitely cost us IMHO.
Whilst no-one expects the current situation to last forever, "make hay while the sun shines" seems to be the general consensus..
Working in IT and having a company car, which is admin'd by our fleet department and is fully inclusive has been probably one of the standout perks in the company.Feedback during and post interview from a number of candidates has been around a lack of solution in this area compared to some of our biggest competitors and in a very competitive job market that has definitely cost us IMHO.
Whilst no-one expects the current situation to last forever, "make hay while the sun shines" seems to be the general consensus..
When talking with headhunters at other firms, hardly anyone offers this anymore (big 4 in london, the main cloud providers etc) - and our company doesn't for new hires now in fact. Even with a bigger cash allowance for such a perk, the overhead of admin, insuring, maintenance etc, working out if I buy/lease/whatever is far less fun than knowing within a tax year on a salary sacrifice scheme (with an allowance) that I've got one fixed payment on the vehicle is a massive peace of mind.
caseys said:
..... massive peace of mind.
We're thinking of going back to company cars for exaclty that reason. Plus there's an element of people being reluctant to do things with their own cars - they make a fuss about what the parking's like at hotels etc. I suppose with EVs the fuss will be about how good the charger availability is though.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff