The push for us to have electric cars
Discussion
GT911 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Source please.Although
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
And
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
suggest the amount used is decreasing rapidly.
Of course, ICE vehicles don't use rare earth metals (ahem, catalytic converters...) and the process of refining doesn't consume rare earth minerals either ( oops - lanthanum )...
Edited by rscott on Wednesday 21st July 23:02
anonymous said:
[redacted]
How much neodymium is in a neodymium magnet you think?So rather than continue to import oil and gas from Russia, Norway, Qatar and OPEC, it would less sustainable to import materials that last the lifetime of the car? Sound logic...
Or perhaps acknowledge that manufacturers will always look to reduce dependency on anything they don't completely own the supply chain on. And unfortunately a lot of the legacy manufacturers have been very slow to secure their supply chains, whilst China has a well established EV industrial base.
rscott said:
At a guess, here - https://www.buntingeurope.com/rare-earth-magnets-i... .
Although
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
And
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
suggest the amount used is decreasing rapidly.
The primary element in a neodymium magnet is... Iron.Although
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
And
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
suggest the amount used is decreasing rapidly.
rscott said:
GT911 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Source please.Although
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
And
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
suggest the amount used is decreasing rapidly.
The article states that Rare earth magnets feature in:
Heating, ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) systems;
Steering, transmission and brakes;
Hybrid engine or electric motor compartment;
Sensors such as for security, seats, cameras, etc;
Door and windows;
Entertainment system (speakers, radio, etc);
Electric vehicle batteries
Fuel and exhaust systems for Hybrids;
So 6 out of the 8 uses listed also feature in an ICE, yet the only use a fraction of what an EV does...ok.
The ADDITIONAL amount for an EV is going measured in hundreds of grams in my experience.
Garvin said:
How do you then get to work? Best keep the BEV fully topped up. Not sure the grid will like that if we all do it!
Most boilers stop with no electricity but if you’ve a gas stove you can still heat some water for a cuppa!
Good idea. I can go to work and top the car battery up there to bring back home. Great idea! Most boilers stop with no electricity but if you’ve a gas stove you can still heat some water for a cuppa!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Good job the manufacturers.are working hard to reduce their use of these rare earth materials then (several saying they'll even cease using them completely).What other options are there then? FCEV require very similar levels of of these materials, plus the extra ones required for the fuel cells.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The work a specific magnet can do is highly variable, totally dependent on speed of travel/rotation, as well as mass. It also depends on the amount of back iron used around the magnet. There is a reason EV motors tend to operate at quite high rotational speeds...You also need to factor in that Neodymium itself is only 30% of the whole magnet, so your 2-5 kg is quite misleading if you then compare it directly to global production of the element.
Clarifying these things is not 'tribal', if anything, latching onto data and presenting it incorrectly in favour of ICEs is 'tribal'.
The amount of Neodymium (the element) used is addition to what would have been used in a comparable ICE is not likely to be more than a few hundred grams.
Edited by GT911 on Wednesday 21st July 23:46
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's where you're wrong. Everyone on this planet should know, or will quickly realise, that what comes out of a car exhaust is harmful to their health. Any sane person would immediately refuse to be shut in a confined space with vehicle exhaust. It would begin harming them almost instantaneously.So why would anyone want hundreds, thousands of them driving past their home, the local school, outside their office, next to them in traffic jams is beyond me.
That's why CO2/methane/HFC driven climate change isn't the "most vital" reason to move away from burning fossil fuels. The actions of Westminster, devolved governments and local governments already show the focus is on the much more tangible issue of localised pollution.
Same can be said of reducing meat content. Yes, there are huge benefits in reduced CO2 and methane release, but when you tell people they can reduce the required land for farming, and more can be used for leisure and wildlife, then you've presented the tangible benefits to people.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What's going to kill the individual first, local emissions or global climate change?https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/0...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So you didn't actually say 'An ICE car contains a fraction of that amount anyway.........'The increase in consumption depends on the EV. Some don't use any permanent magnets in their motors at all.
Pointing out that 70% of a 'rare-earth' magnet is made from abundant materials is not tickling around the edges!
Evanivitch said:
What's going to kill the individual first, local emissions or global climate change?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/0...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07...
Are there more deaths in winter or summer ?https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/0...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07...
Evanivitch said:
I fully accept the science that human activity is causing accelerated climate change. Is that what you were trying to ask?
Are you going to justify why global greenhouse gases are "most vital" first?
One one hand there is a world wide effort to curb emissions from vehicles, on the other hand emissions are pushed to one side because there's money to be made.Are you going to justify why global greenhouse gases are "most vital" first?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMcgEdLUdu4
NMNeil said:
One one hand there is a world wide effort to curb emissions from vehicles, on the other hand emissions are pushed to one side because there's money to be made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMcgEdLUdu4
And there always will be because there is a very basic compatibility problem with human desire for self indulgence, wealth, greed and comfort and 'saving the planet'.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMcgEdLUdu4
Nobody trading in and buying a luxury 2 ton EV brimmed with full leather, superior sound systems, 2 massive high power motors and so on are saving the planet!! If that was their true intent they'd be buying a basic Leaf or equivalent.
But it goes much further than cars, its every aspect of out lives. To truly look at saving the environment, we all need to be prepared to sacrifice a good amount of luxury and unnecessary good living and I don't think we are truly prepared to do that. Instead we make small token gestures which in make sweet FA of a difference.
And then there's population growth, the real elephant in the room nobody dares talk about, the biggest issue facing the environment by far.
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