Buy an EV they said...
Discussion
paralla said:
tamore said:
by the mile charging is the only option really. will be really painful for ICE drivers as fuel will only get more expensive as the escalator will come back and probably speed up.
Will a Renault Zoe pay the same per mile as a Mercedes EQS?
bigothunter said:
Why shouldn't all cars (ICE and EV) pay the same price per mile?
ICE cars don’t all pay the same price per mile because not all ICE cars use the same amount of fuel (and tax) per mile. If the current fuel tax model is used for EV’s and a Zoe uses half the electricity per mile than an EQS the EQS should pay double the tax.
I don’t have the answer, just highlighting that different EV’s use different amounts of electricity to travel a given distance.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Plus some increase in energy taxation and sales tax.
But one thing is for sure, when the 30bn isn't coming from fuel, it will come from somewhere else.
paralla said:
bigothunter said:
Why shouldn't all cars (ICE and EV) pay the same price per mile?
ICE cars don’t all pay the same price per mile because not all ICE cars use the same amount of fuel (and tax) per mile. If the current fuel tax model is used for EV’s and a Zoe uses half the electricity per mile than an EQS the EQS should pay double the tax.
I don’t have the answer, just highlighting that different EV’s use different amounts of electricity to travel a given distance.
bigothunter said:
I thought road pricing related to the use of road space not energy/fuel consumed?
Could be a combination. So many factors possible:- weight (has been done in NL for decades)
- size (as you say, footprint...)
- consumption (as it is now in many regions)
- list price (also used in many regions)
I think the answer is somewhere related to distance and congestion, as volume on roads is proportionate to wear, generally.
If you tax per mile in a new system, it would discriminate against rural people who don't have the option of not driving to a shop, or not commuting longer distances.
Much like the continent, if you stick tolls on motorways, at least tourists etc would be contributing to the use.
Granted, you might get the same problem that is off-motorway congestion, but you have to look at the problem and tax the problem areas.
I don't think you'll ever get "tracking" with GPS etc because, if there's one thing the government have taught us in the pandemic it's that they don't want to be tracked and exposed either.
If you tax per mile in a new system, it would discriminate against rural people who don't have the option of not driving to a shop, or not commuting longer distances.
Much like the continent, if you stick tolls on motorways, at least tourists etc would be contributing to the use.
Granted, you might get the same problem that is off-motorway congestion, but you have to look at the problem and tax the problem areas.
I don't think you'll ever get "tracking" with GPS etc because, if there's one thing the government have taught us in the pandemic it's that they don't want to be tracked and exposed either.
sparta6 said:
NDA said:
Yebbut.....
People are moving to EV's and therefore the tax income for fuel is going to dry up.
My EV costs £360 in volts for 12,000 miles. My V8 costs £4,200 a year for the same mileage. If I buy volts instead of petrol, I am depriving the exchequer of thousands of pounds a year. That's why road pricing is inevitable as the government needs our money for important stuff. Apparently.
With a saving of £4,000 a year on fuel, £1,000 annual service saving, £600 a year road tax annual saving - the mythical 'break even point' will come a lot sooner than 10 years. Assuming this point is the difference between the purchase price of an EV Vs an equivalent ICE engine? In fact in 10 years, the car will have paid for itself completely.
Interesting numbers.People are moving to EV's and therefore the tax income for fuel is going to dry up.
My EV costs £360 in volts for 12,000 miles. My V8 costs £4,200 a year for the same mileage. If I buy volts instead of petrol, I am depriving the exchequer of thousands of pounds a year. That's why road pricing is inevitable as the government needs our money for important stuff. Apparently.
With a saving of £4,000 a year on fuel, £1,000 annual service saving, £600 a year road tax annual saving - the mythical 'break even point' will come a lot sooner than 10 years. Assuming this point is the difference between the purchase price of an EV Vs an equivalent ICE engine? In fact in 10 years, the car will have paid for itself completely.
Have you considered the depreciation element ?
NDA said:
sparta6 said:
NDA said:
Yebbut.....
People are moving to EV's and therefore the tax income for fuel is going to dry up.
My EV costs £360 in volts for 12,000 miles. My V8 costs £4,200 a year for the same mileage. If I buy volts instead of petrol, I am depriving the exchequer of thousands of pounds a year. That's why road pricing is inevitable as the government needs our money for important stuff. Apparently.
With a saving of £4,000 a year on fuel, £1,000 annual service saving, £600 a year road tax annual saving - the mythical 'break even point' will come a lot sooner than 10 years. Assuming this point is the difference between the purchase price of an EV Vs an equivalent ICE engine? In fact in 10 years, the car will have paid for itself completely.
Interesting numbers.People are moving to EV's and therefore the tax income for fuel is going to dry up.
My EV costs £360 in volts for 12,000 miles. My V8 costs £4,200 a year for the same mileage. If I buy volts instead of petrol, I am depriving the exchequer of thousands of pounds a year. That's why road pricing is inevitable as the government needs our money for important stuff. Apparently.
With a saving of £4,000 a year on fuel, £1,000 annual service saving, £600 a year road tax annual saving - the mythical 'break even point' will come a lot sooner than 10 years. Assuming this point is the difference between the purchase price of an EV Vs an equivalent ICE engine? In fact in 10 years, the car will have paid for itself completely.
Have you considered the depreciation element ?
You know, radical n all, but if EVs have a very small environmental impact and the fuel can be produced locally instead of imported, maybe we shouldn’t tax them at all? Why should mobility be taxed per se? If the counter argument is congestion and infra cost then use tolling where this is relevant and/or jack up annual road tax to cover it. It just doesn’t seem that clever to tax flexibility, which is what mobility translates to if I’m not mistaken. Particularly if it doesn’t implicitly harm anyone or anything.
DMZ said:
You know, radical n all, but if EVs have a very small environmental impact and the fuel can be produced locally instead of imported, maybe we shouldn’t tax them at all? Why should mobility be taxed per se? If the counter argument is congestion and infra cost then use tolling where this is relevant and/or jack up annual road tax to cover it. It just doesn’t seem that clever to tax flexibility, which is what mobility translates to if I’m not mistaken. Particularly if it doesn’t implicitly harm anyone or anything.
Simply, 30bn of revenue will simply vanish and will have to be replaced somehow. It could be put on general taxation but the most obvious will be to put it on the same general people and income brackets that pay it now.
Maybe we should tax people in direct proportion to their income, but I can't see that catching on.
Gary C said:
Simply, 30bn of revenue will simply vanish and will have to be replaced somehow.
It could be put on general taxation but the most obvious will be to put it on the same general people and income brackets that pay it now.
Maybe we should tax people in direct proportion to their income, but I can't see that catching on.
Agree - raising income tax will be the cheapest/ simplest way, rather than road pricingIt could be put on general taxation but the most obvious will be to put it on the same general people and income brackets that pay it now.
Maybe we should tax people in direct proportion to their income, but I can't see that catching on.
Cost of power goes up pretty much the same as rail tickets anyway, they can justify it by saying they are investing in renewables etc, but we all know the real reason it is because they are only hemmed in by Ofgen who limit the amount they can raise it by, and they max it out every time, just like rail tickets.
If they could they would ramp it up hugely.
If they could they would ramp it up hugely.
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