EV's and Long Journeys
Discussion
Heres Johnny said:
I've owned an EV since 2015, probably driven 100k miles in an EV and toured Europe. The time to charge is not the issue for me, the organisation, planning, at times inconvenience of having to go out of your way or let the charging dictate the route did become the issue. I don;t want to have to find a hotel with a charging point or hold my bladder for an extra 20 mins to reach where Ineed to get to charge (thats an age thing) or not be able to take a detour because of traffic without recomputing the energy needs and where I'd next stop.
So anyone saying its entirely possible are absolutely correct in pretty much all situations. To say its not without complications at the moment, and will be until rapid chargers are ubiquitous and you know every service station, town and villiage or wherever you might need to charge has suitable charging infrastructure that you simply locate when you feel you need to charge, is simply wrong, you always have to know where you're getting your next charge from when touring and what plan b is.
We're recently switched our cars around, the EV is the local runaround which its perfect at, anything distant we take the ICE.
Sounds like a balance view, from someone who has done it.So anyone saying its entirely possible are absolutely correct in pretty much all situations. To say its not without complications at the moment, and will be until rapid chargers are ubiquitous and you know every service station, town and villiage or wherever you might need to charge has suitable charging infrastructure that you simply locate when you feel you need to charge, is simply wrong, you always have to know where you're getting your next charge from when touring and what plan b is.
We're recently switched our cars around, the EV is the local runaround which its perfect at, anything distant we take the ICE.
I think that is the crux of it (having not done it) at the moment.
- If you have a known routine, drive, stop points, there is a reasonable chance you can use it daily without issue or change.
- With planning you you can do basically anything, within reason, but you will have to plan and change your route/schedule.
- The limitation is not really the range, or the changing time on fast charges, but the availability and speed of fast chargers.
I have a westfield kitcar, fairly small tank and carbs, very variable fuel consumption based on driving style, and while I can get well over 100 miles out of tank and only really drive it for fun, even in IC refueling tech I have got very low and had to stop and google a exit strategy once or twice when having a trash around rural lanes on a sunday afternoon, got a bit carried away, passed a few reduced opening hours outlets, and had to beat a hasty track to a forecourt on a main road!
otolith said:
These flushing toilets - is there one that will still let me throw my sewage out of the window and into the street? If I have to go and sit on a toilet, I'm out.
Man on Internet doesn't like other peoples opinions when they are not his own opinions and regularly tells us so.TX.
dhutch said:
Heres Johnny said:
I've owned an EV since 2015, probably driven 100k miles in an EV and toured Europe. The time to charge is not the issue for me, the organisation, planning, at times inconvenience of having to go out of your way or let the charging dictate the route did become the issue. I don;t want to have to find a hotel with a charging point or hold my bladder for an extra 20 mins to reach where Ineed to get to charge (thats an age thing) or not be able to take a detour because of traffic without recomputing the energy needs and where I'd next stop.
So anyone saying its entirely possible are absolutely correct in pretty much all situations. To say its not without complications at the moment, and will be until rapid chargers are ubiquitous and you know every service station, town and villiage or wherever you might need to charge has suitable charging infrastructure that you simply locate when you feel you need to charge, is simply wrong, you always have to know where you're getting your next charge from when touring and what plan b is.
We're recently switched our cars around, the EV is the local runaround which its perfect at, anything distant we take the ICE.
Sounds like a balance view, from someone who has done it.So anyone saying its entirely possible are absolutely correct in pretty much all situations. To say its not without complications at the moment, and will be until rapid chargers are ubiquitous and you know every service station, town and villiage or wherever you might need to charge has suitable charging infrastructure that you simply locate when you feel you need to charge, is simply wrong, you always have to know where you're getting your next charge from when touring and what plan b is.
We're recently switched our cars around, the EV is the local runaround which its perfect at, anything distant we take the ICE.
I think that is the crux of it (having not done it) at the moment.
- If you have a known routine, drive, stop points, there is a reasonable chance you can use it daily without issue or change.
- With planning you you can do basically anything, within reason, but you will have to plan and change your route/schedule.
- The limitation is not really the range, or the changing time on fast charges, but the availability and speed of fast chargers.
Terminator X said:
otolith said:
These flushing toilets - is there one that will still let me throw my sewage out of the window and into the street? If I have to go and sit on a toilet, I'm out.
Man on Internet doesn't like other peoples opinions when they are not his own opinions and regularly tells us so.Many men on the internet either do not understand this or simply don't care.
Max_Torque said:
wow, 50 mpg eh, gosh.
6.5 miles per kWh which is the conmsumption this latest record achieved is the same energy consumption as an ICE doing 302 mpg!
My EV does roughly 80 (Eighty) miles per kWh, and during rush hour is gets me to home/work quicker than any car.6.5 miles per kWh which is the conmsumption this latest record achieved is the same energy consumption as an ICE doing 302 mpg!
The added bonus of not having to worry about traffic is you can explore all kinds of random routes on the way home.
If you really want to reduce your energy foot print for commuting, ditching the car has a far bigger impact than ditching the combustion engine.
andy97 said:
I am currently driving approx 230 miles to work in Devon each week, commuting about 5 miles each way from the hotel to the office and returning home on one tank of Diesel. The car is loaded with my weekly stuff and a set of golf clubs, the air con and radio and sat nav,are on, and occasionally the headlamps and wipers too.
I stop once on the long journey to go to the loo and that’s it. 5 minutes. There is no charging point at the hotel or office.
The car (a 3 litre X3) cost me about £25k 4 years ago and is probably now worth £8k if I am lucky but I get paid 45p per mile in expenses for my business miles. I bought it myself, no loans or lease deals. I also need it to tow a race car trailer several times a year.
Is there an EV that can do all this please?
As said, change hotels to one that has a destination charger, or move house or change jobs? If you didnt get mileage covered then this post would look more like 'help me find an EV that can do this'.... I stop once on the long journey to go to the loo and that’s it. 5 minutes. There is no charging point at the hotel or office.
The car (a 3 litre X3) cost me about £25k 4 years ago and is probably now worth £8k if I am lucky but I get paid 45p per mile in expenses for my business miles. I bought it myself, no loans or lease deals. I also need it to tow a race car trailer several times a year.
Is there an EV that can do all this please?
The outdated business miles solution is encouraging you to do this, even making you significant profit, and theres no incentive to switch as its not a company car so no BIK saving or limited electricity cost offset.
Though i cant talk as haven't gone EV, but main issue is a need an estate/SUV that can do >150miles real world inc motorway and cost < £350/mth or <£20k used and that doesn't exist yet, though have started to consider an i3rex
jagfan2 said:
andy97 said:
I am currently driving approx 230 miles to work in Devon each week, commuting about 5 miles each way from the hotel to the office and returning home on one tank of Diesel. The car is loaded with my weekly stuff and a set of golf clubs, the air con and radio and sat nav,are on, and occasionally the headlamps and wipers too.
I stop once on the long journey to go to the loo and that’s it. 5 minutes. There is no charging point at the hotel or office.
The car (a 3 litre X3) cost me about £25k 4 years ago and is probably now worth £8k if I am lucky but I get paid 45p per mile in expenses for my business miles. I bought it myself, no loans or lease deals. I also need it to tow a race car trailer several times a year.
Is there an EV that can do all this please?
As said, change hotels to one that has a destination charger, or move house or change jobs? If you didnt get mileage covered then this post would look more like 'help me find an EV that can do this'.... I stop once on the long journey to go to the loo and that’s it. 5 minutes. There is no charging point at the hotel or office.
The car (a 3 litre X3) cost me about £25k 4 years ago and is probably now worth £8k if I am lucky but I get paid 45p per mile in expenses for my business miles. I bought it myself, no loans or lease deals. I also need it to tow a race car trailer several times a year.
Is there an EV that can do all this please?
The outdated business miles solution is encouraging you to do this, even making you significant profit, and theres no incentive to switch as its not a company car so no BIK saving or limited electricity cost offset.
Though i cant talk as haven't gone EV, but main issue is a need an estate/SUV that can do >150miles real world inc motorway and cost < £350/mth or <£20k used and that doesn't exist yet, though have started to consider an i3rex
The “issue” with business miles is when it’s a company car. The rate is set so you are still up on the deal if you charge at home, or use one of the many free public chargers, but due to the price disparity between cheap/free charging and some rapid chargers you can be out of pocket if you fuel your EV that way. But if you fuel your EV on expensive chargers then you might as well buy a diesel.
andy97 said:
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
andy97 said:
Whether it’s race cars, or caravans, or horses or boats, plenty of people do have similar requirements. Of course, not a majority but a reasonably significant minority. And even without towing, plenty of people do need to drive 460 miles in a round trip and have no desire for several long (ish) stops to charge on route.
I do see your point. Though with a EV with a big battery, it’s potentially one 45 minute stop these days I think? You will probably want or need a break in 460 miles, and a wee and a drink must be about 20 mins by the time you have parked, walked in etc. So for me, an extra 20 minutes to save quite a bit of money on fuel isn’t a bad trade off. Stopping, and having to plan to stop, for 45 mins is 30 mins too long for me on a 4 hour, 230 mile journey.
I have recently watched a Harry’s garage review of the Porsche Taycan. He charged it up at an Instavolt charger having stated that there were only 4 x 230 Kw chargers in the U.K.
The charger was rated at 125kw but only actually charged at 80kw with 2 other cars using adjacent chargers. It charged at 3.6 miles per minute and Harry put 23 miles worth of charge in at a cost of £2.50. So to meet my 230 mile one way journey requirement I have to charge for 64 minutes (25% of the journey time) and it costs £25.
I think my X3 costs me about £35 in diesel for the same journey and the car didn’t cost £100k.
Edited by andy97 on Monday 12th July 08:46
I do get your points, I’m just saying it’s not that bad/ of you want an EV anyway you could work around it.
I have a Tesla Model S P90DL. I had to get to Kent on Sunday morning (5 people in the car) and we were really late (not my fault) so we REALLY cracked on. It was a 140mile round trip and I drove pretty hard back. Basically used 90% of the battery, I was actually impressed. In my old RS7 it would have pretty much used a full tank doing the same thing.
Heres Johnny said:
The business miles situation is not outdated, it’s the same in this context, if he owned an EV he’d still be able to claim 45p a mile as it’s his car.
The “issue” with business miles is when it’s a company car. The rate is set so you are still up on the deal if you charge at home, or use one of the many free public chargers, but due to the price disparity between cheap/free charging and some rapid chargers you can be out of pocket if you fuel your EV that way. But if you fuel your EV on expensive chargers then you might as well buy a diesel.
Ah ok, didnt know you got 45p on your own car, just knew it was only 4p for company cars, makes a bit more sense i suppose, and at 45p is definitely a major win for an EVThe “issue” with business miles is when it’s a company car. The rate is set so you are still up on the deal if you charge at home, or use one of the many free public chargers, but due to the price disparity between cheap/free charging and some rapid chargers you can be out of pocket if you fuel your EV that way. But if you fuel your EV on expensive chargers then you might as well buy a diesel.
jagfan2 said:
Heres Johnny said:
The business miles situation is not outdated, it’s the same in this context, if he owned an EV he’d still be able to claim 45p a mile as it’s his car.
The “issue” with business miles is when it’s a company car. The rate is set so you are still up on the deal if you charge at home, or use one of the many free public chargers, but due to the price disparity between cheap/free charging and some rapid chargers you can be out of pocket if you fuel your EV that way. But if you fuel your EV on expensive chargers then you might as well buy a diesel.
Ah ok, didnt know you got 45p on your own car, just knew it was only 4p for company cars, makes a bit more sense i suppose, and at 45p is definitely a major win for an EVThe “issue” with business miles is when it’s a company car. The rate is set so you are still up on the deal if you charge at home, or use one of the many free public chargers, but due to the price disparity between cheap/free charging and some rapid chargers you can be out of pocket if you fuel your EV that way. But if you fuel your EV on expensive chargers then you might as well buy a diesel.
With home charging costing as little as 4p per kW and many EV's covering 3+ miles per kW a 250 mile round trip could pocket you around £110..
RobbyJ said:
I have a Tesla Model S P90DL. I had to get to Kent on Sunday morning (5 people in the car) and we were really late (not my fault) so we REALLY cracked on. It was a 140mile round trip and I drove pretty hard back. Basically used 90% of the battery, I was actually impressed. In my old RS7 it would have pretty much used a full tank doing the same thing.
I don't think I'd be too impressed with 155 miles range, which is what your calculation suggests.
Cobnapint said:
RobbyJ said:
I have a Tesla Model S P90DL. I had to get to Kent on Sunday morning (5 people in the car) and we were really late (not my fault) so we REALLY cracked on. It was a 140mile round trip and I drove pretty hard back. Basically used 90% of the battery, I was actually impressed. In my old RS7 it would have pretty much used a full tank doing the same thing.
I don't think I'd be too impressed with 155 miles range, which is what your calculation suggests.TBH I don't think you're likely to be impressed with anything EV related based on your recent posts, so no surprise there..
SWoll said:
TheRainMaker said:
andy97 said:
Is there an EV that can do all this please?
Nope, not yet.
SWoll said:
As mentioned he must have been driving at some serious speeds for that to be the case, at real world speeds you are looking at 250 miles.
TBH I don't think you're likely to be impressed with anything EV related based on your recent posts, so no surprise there..
Well thanks. TBH I don't think you're likely to be impressed with anything EV related based on your recent posts, so no surprise there..
If he'd said he'd used about 50% I'd say that was a result.
I'm not against EVs, I'm against people saying they're absolutely brilliant at the moment when they aren't quite.
I'd love one. The new EV6 looks fantastic. But I don't want a barrel load of inconvenience entering my life that I don't currently have.
That's my opinion. If you don't like it, fair enough.
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