Alarming rise in electricity prices
Discussion
I heard promises for one of the politicians saying they'd reduce tax somehow and give back £900 per year to the average household (whatever that is) but what's the use when energy costs continue to rise on a ludicrous rate? The £900 Mr & Mrs Average save will be immediately swallowed up in energy costs, and then some (of which I'm sure the Government will earn some tax on) then everything that requires gas or electric to produce (every single thing on earth) will go up. I think one radio station said that if you're paying £200/month now then you can expect to be paying £335 a month after the October & January price hikes.
As someone else said, a lot of families are going to be seriously considering whether to be fed or warm this year. A decision that should never have to be made. There's only so much jumpers and blankets on a couch can do when you're sitting in a house at -10 degrees. When a 2+2 family on the national living wage can't afford to have heat and food at the same time, something is critically wrong.
As someone else said, a lot of families are going to be seriously considering whether to be fed or warm this year. A decision that should never have to be made. There's only so much jumpers and blankets on a couch can do when you're sitting in a house at -10 degrees. When a 2+2 family on the national living wage can't afford to have heat and food at the same time, something is critically wrong.
TheBinarySheep said:
Why, as a country, have we left ourselves in the position where we need to import power from other countries? Why don't we have enough power stations and we can't we be the ones exporting it to other countries?
Well, the cables are bidirectional; if and when we have a surplus, we can then sell it; then we can import if we've got a shortage. Have a look at electricitymap.org and drag the 'time' sliders around to see how the import/export of the interconnectors varies over the day.RazerSauber said:
I heard promises for one of the politicians saying they'd reduce tax somehow and give back £900 per year to the average household (whatever that is) but what's the use when energy costs continue to rise on a ludicrous rate? The £900 Mr & Mrs Average save will be immediately swallowed up in energy costs, and then some (of which I'm sure the Government will earn some tax on) then everything that requires gas or electric to produce (every single thing on earth) will go up. I think one radio station said that if you're paying £200/month now then you can expect to be paying £335 a month after the October & January price hikes.
As someone else said, a lot of families are going to be seriously considering whether to be fed or warm this year. A decision that should never have to be made. There's only so much jumpers and blankets on a couch can do when you're sitting in a house at -10 degrees. When a 2+2 family on the national living wage can't afford to have heat and food at the same time, something is critically wrong.
Yes, they might even have to cut back on their Sky and McDonalds.As someone else said, a lot of families are going to be seriously considering whether to be fed or warm this year. A decision that should never have to be made. There's only so much jumpers and blankets on a couch can do when you're sitting in a house at -10 degrees. When a 2+2 family on the national living wage can't afford to have heat and food at the same time, something is critically wrong.
Uncomfortable fact is that there are world market prices for foods and fuels and the UK thinks it can't afford the prices which the rest of the world is prepared to pay.
I am thsat old i can rememeber that when Calder Hall Became live it was said that power would be cheaper
Where has it gone wrong? and even if we are running on North Sea gas and all these frigging win farms, who is taking the piss
I think ( willing to be proved wrong) that the freanch power firms are charging the locals peanuts wheras we are being cut to ribbons
Same with transportation All ,or most, run by forwign companies who give cheap fares the their owm..
The various governments have a lot to answer for. And where does these so called intelligent people think those on pensions will find the extra. costs
My monthly DD has gone form 95 to 200pm tEven the triple lock wont cover that ,and the GB scrape the barrel for pensions as well
If they think the lowest weekly wage for a single person to survive' is on a 35ph week is 335.50 , who the juddering f
k do they think a pensioner csan exist on half that? Ok i am lucky with a works pension, but there are a lot out there who havent got one
I hate every fking politician with a passion.. bds every one of them The just havent got a clue on what the real world is like.
Rant over
Where has it gone wrong? and even if we are running on North Sea gas and all these frigging win farms, who is taking the piss
I think ( willing to be proved wrong) that the freanch power firms are charging the locals peanuts wheras we are being cut to ribbons
Same with transportation All ,or most, run by forwign companies who give cheap fares the their owm..
The various governments have a lot to answer for. And where does these so called intelligent people think those on pensions will find the extra. costs
My monthly DD has gone form 95 to 200pm tEven the triple lock wont cover that ,and the GB scrape the barrel for pensions as well
If they think the lowest weekly wage for a single person to survive' is on a 35ph week is 335.50 , who the juddering f
k do they think a pensioner csan exist on half that? Ok i am lucky with a works pension, but there are a lot out there who havent got oneI hate every f
king politician with a passion.. bds every one of them The just havent got a clue on what the real world is like.Rant over
silverfoxcc said:
I am thsat old i can rememeber that when Calder Hall Became live it was said that power would be cheaper
Where has it gone wrong? and even if we are running on North Sea gas and all these frigging win farms, who is taking the piss
I think ( willing to be proved wrong) that the freanch power firms are charging the locals peanuts wheras we are being cut to ribbons
Same with transportation All ,or most, run by forwign companies who give cheap fares the their owm..
The various governments have a lot to answer for. And where does these so called intelligent people think those on pensions will find the extra. costs
My monthly DD has gone form 95 to 200pm tEven the triple lock wont cover that ,and the GB scrape the barrel for pensions as well
If they think the lowest weekly wage for a single person to survive' is on a 35ph week is 335.50 , who the juddering fk do they think a pensioner csan exist on half that? Ok i am lucky with a works pension, but there are a lot out there who havent got one
I hate every fking politician with a passion.. bds every one of them The just havent got a clue on what the real world is like.
Rant over
Last year, electricity in France was about the same price as in the UK.Where has it gone wrong? and even if we are running on North Sea gas and all these frigging win farms, who is taking the piss
I think ( willing to be proved wrong) that the freanch power firms are charging the locals peanuts wheras we are being cut to ribbons
Same with transportation All ,or most, run by forwign companies who give cheap fares the their owm..
The various governments have a lot to answer for. And where does these so called intelligent people think those on pensions will find the extra. costs
My monthly DD has gone form 95 to 200pm tEven the triple lock wont cover that ,and the GB scrape the barrel for pensions as well
If they think the lowest weekly wage for a single person to survive' is on a 35ph week is 335.50 , who the juddering f
k do they think a pensioner csan exist on half that? Ok i am lucky with a works pension, but there are a lot out there who havent got oneI hate every f
king politician with a passion.. bds every one of them The just havent got a clue on what the real world is like.Rant over
I think it's the UK public who haven't got a clue, they don't do anything the rest of the world want, they just think the world owes them, and their feral brats a free ride. Interesting times ahead.
PBCD said:
OutInTheShed said:
I think it's the UK public who haven't got a clue, they don't do anything the rest of the world want...
Such as?Just for three months.
We need lots of stuff from abroad, they don't want much that we can offer.
TheRainMaker said:
Wow, that is crazy 
does anyone know it is so much more?
A large proportion of the generation in France is nuclear. does anyone know it is so much more?There are a lot of them on outage, so supply is curtailed.
When demand goes up, prices follow.
Russia isn’t exactly rushing to send their gas to Europe….
There are a lot of people praying for a mild winter.
RazerSauber said:
I heard promises for one of the politicians saying they'd reduce tax somehow and give back £900 per year to the average household (whatever that is) but what's the use when energy costs continue to rise on a ludicrous rate? The £900 Mr & Mrs Average save will be immediately swallowed up in energy costs, and then some (of which I'm sure the Government will earn some tax on) then everything that requires gas or electric to produce (every single thing on earth) will go up. I think one radio station said that if you're paying £200/month now then you can expect to be paying £335 a month after the October & January price hikes.
As someone else said, a lot of families are going to be seriously considering whether to be fed or warm this year. A decision that should never have to be made. There's only so much jumpers and blankets on a couch can do when you're sitting in a house at -10 degrees. When a 2+2 family on the national living wage can't afford to have heat and food at the same time, something is critically wrong.
Indeed, bagsy the rural areas trees, bushes, hedgerows, duck, poor bambi and any fish near me.As someone else said, a lot of families are going to be seriously considering whether to be fed or warm this year. A decision that should never have to be made. There's only so much jumpers and blankets on a couch can do when you're sitting in a house at -10 degrees. When a 2+2 family on the national living wage can't afford to have heat and food at the same time, something is critically wrong.
Oh, and that farmer won't mind a wee wire to his solar panel field I hope.
Gary C said:
coetzeeh said:
UK Wholesale electricity price for Q4 was at £412/MWh yesterday (or 41p/kwh + 10p/kwh grid/green costs)
Spare a thought for our friends in France where yesterday Q4 prices increased to 890 euro per MWh.
half hour spot prices are meaningless in isolation.Spare a thought for our friends in France where yesterday Q4 prices increased to 890 euro per MWh.
It is only power companies that didn't seem to understand how it worked - or bet on static or falling prices - that bought on day ahead rates. Most seem to have run out of cash in a rising market as they are not allowed to pass on the costs.
ZesPak said:
That's a disgusting comment.
They do raise a valid point though.I do have sympathy for those who genuinely can't afford these increasing costs and I'm happy for them to receive cost-of-living payments, which I gather people are starting to receive from today.
But for those who continue to live beyond their means knowing (or choosing to ignore) there is a very tough autumn/winter ahead of them then I'm kind of with the original poster of your quote.
No ideas for a name said:
Gary C said:
coetzeeh said:
UK Wholesale electricity price for Q4 was at £412/MWh yesterday (or 41p/kwh + 10p/kwh grid/green costs)
Spare a thought for our friends in France where yesterday Q4 prices increased to 890 euro per MWh.
half hour spot prices are meaningless in isolation.Spare a thought for our friends in France where yesterday Q4 prices increased to 890 euro per MWh.
It is only power companies that didn't seem to understand how it worked - or bet on static or falling prices - that bought on day ahead rates. Most seem to have run out of cash in a rising market as they are not allowed to pass on the costs.
Do you think they can get that level of accuracy 1 or 2 years in advance?
Also their is no crystal ball to say where prices will out turn.
I agree that spot prices in isolation are not the complete story, but they are a major component.
£450/MWh for winter 22 for the commodity, add another £150/MWh for the non commodity element….
imdeman87 said:
ZesPak said:
That's a disgusting comment.
They do raise a valid point though.I do have sympathy for those who genuinely can't afford these increasing costs and I'm happy for them to receive cost-of-living payments, which I gather people are starting to receive from today.
But for those who continue to live beyond their means knowing (or choosing to ignore) there is a very tough autumn/winter ahead of them then I'm kind of with the original poster of your quote.
Meeten-5dulx said:
No ideas for a name said:
Gary C said:
coetzeeh said:
UK Wholesale electricity price for Q4 was at £412/MWh yesterday (or 41p/kwh + 10p/kwh grid/green costs)
Spare a thought for our friends in France where yesterday Q4 prices increased to 890 euro per MWh.
half hour spot prices are meaningless in isolation.Spare a thought for our friends in France where yesterday Q4 prices increased to 890 euro per MWh.
It is only power companies that didn't seem to understand how it worked - or bet on static or falling prices - that bought on day ahead rates. Most seem to have run out of cash in a rising market as they are not allowed to pass on the costs.
Do you think they can get that level of accuracy 1 or 2 years in advance?
Also their is no crystal ball to say where prices will out turn.
I agree that spot prices in isolation are not the complete story, but they are a major component.
£450/MWh for winter 22 for the commodity, add another £150/MWh for the non commodity element….
Base load generators such as the Nuclear stations were in the habit of selling portions of expected generation each year so on the three year ahead market we had about 80% sold, going down to ?20% on the year ahead (Need Condi to chip in on this)
The spot market & day ahead market is a balancing mechanism in itself, too little generation, attracts higher prices, incentivises generators to put higher cost assets on the bars, which is all well and good as long as those high cost dispatchable assets exist. Coal used to operate in that market, taking high day ahead & spot prices. Gas would like too but its basically become base load and price setting, so without the capacity to bring in more, dispatchable but a bit more expensive generation, day ahead and spot prices spiral upwards from a high gas driven price set.
This also has the worrying effect if a company that has forward sold its generation, has a big unit trip then the lost generation has to be bought from the market at possibly ruinous prices to replace the load already sold at £50/MWhr.
Of course, high prices should also attract investment in generation.
The little 'power companies' that setup with a few laptops in a cheap office, found that they could operate in the fluctuating market, making deals and selling cheaper electricity as the generators had to hedge against large losses. This was all fine until these little companies that never generated a watt of electricity found the market moving away from them, making their business model outdated.
A truly tangled web.
ZesPak said:
It just reeks of "just stop being poor". I know plenty of people that comment applies to as well, but to put it as a sweeping statement is just distasteful and something I didn't expect from this corner of the internet.
People need to grow up and realise that energy is expensive.ZesPak said:
OutInTheShed said:
Yes, they might even have to cut back on their Sky and McDonalds.
That's a disgusting comment. OutInTheShed said:
ZesPak said:
It just reeks of "just stop being poor". I know plenty of people that comment applies to as well, but to put it as a sweeping statement is just distasteful and something I didn't expect from this corner of the internet.
People need to grow up and realise that energy is expensive.t. Most folks don't have sky these days. It's all streaming services now, and a lot of them are "Shared". I pay for Netflix and Prime, I Share my in laws Disney + and Sky Go. So I pay £25 a month in streaming services (and free next day delivery + music streaming etc).So if I "Cut back" I save £25... Great help when my energy bill has DOUBLED in the past 12 months. What use is £25 extra a month when my Gas + Elec has gone up by £130 and is due to go up by the same amount again this October. I am only out £235 a month instead of £260? It makes no difference! I haven't even mentioned fuel costs yet, and the effect that has had on the price of all our daily groceries.
Seriously, how out of touch do you have to be to think "all people need to do is cut back on the only pleasures they have in life"?? are you Boris f
king Johnson?Edited by Ransoman on Friday 15th July 10:00
Ransoman said:
What a load of bullst. Most folks don't have sky these days. It's all streaming services now, and a lot of them are "Shared". I pay for Netflix and Prime, I Share my in laws Disney + and Sky Go. So I pay £25 a month in streaming services (and free next day delivery + music streaming etc).
So if I "Cut back" I save £25... Great help when my energy bill has DOUBLED in the past 12 months. What use is £25 extra a month when my Gas + Elec has gone up by £130 and is due to go up by the same amount again this October. I am only out £235 a month instead of £260? It makes no difference! I haven't even mentioned fuel costs yet, and the effect that has had on the price of all our daily groceries.
Seriously, how out of touch do you have to be to think "all people need to do is cut back on the only pleasures they have in life"?? are you Boris fking Johnson?
You might as well sit around moaning about it being dark at night.t. Most folks don't have sky these days. It's all streaming services now, and a lot of them are "Shared". I pay for Netflix and Prime, I Share my in laws Disney + and Sky Go. So I pay £25 a month in streaming services (and free next day delivery + music streaming etc).So if I "Cut back" I save £25... Great help when my energy bill has DOUBLED in the past 12 months. What use is £25 extra a month when my Gas + Elec has gone up by £130 and is due to go up by the same amount again this October. I am only out £235 a month instead of £260? It makes no difference! I haven't even mentioned fuel costs yet, and the effect that has had on the price of all our daily groceries.
Seriously, how out of touch do you have to be to think "all people need to do is cut back on the only pleasures they have in life"?? are you Boris f
king Johnson?Edited by Ransoman on Friday 15th July 10:00
In the real world, energy is expensive.
No politician can change that.
Unless you want to live in some soviet state?
You might have to work hard if you want to use lots of energy.
Or do you think Rishi will borrow lots more money and give you a handout?
Trouble is, that's pushed down the value of the pound, pushing up energy prices.
People might have to cut back on non-essentials.
Ransoman said:
What a load of bullst. Most folks don't have sky these days. It's all streaming services now, and a lot of them are "Shared". I pay for Netflix and Prime, I Share my in laws Disney + and Sky Go. So I pay £25 a month in streaming services (and free next day delivery + music streaming etc).
So if I "Cut back" I save £25... Great help when my energy bill has DOUBLED in the past 12 months. What use is £25 extra a month when my Gas + Elec has gone up by £130 and is due to go up by the same amount again this October. I am only out £235 a month instead of £260? It makes no difference! I haven't even mentioned fuel costs yet, and the effect that has had on the price of all our daily groceries.
Seriously, how out of touch do you have to be to think "all people need to do is cut back on the only pleasures they have in life"?? are you Boris fking Johnson?
You might as well sit around moaning about it being dark at night.t. Most folks don't have sky these days. It's all streaming services now, and a lot of them are "Shared". I pay for Netflix and Prime, I Share my in laws Disney + and Sky Go. So I pay £25 a month in streaming services (and free next day delivery + music streaming etc).So if I "Cut back" I save £25... Great help when my energy bill has DOUBLED in the past 12 months. What use is £25 extra a month when my Gas + Elec has gone up by £130 and is due to go up by the same amount again this October. I am only out £235 a month instead of £260? It makes no difference! I haven't even mentioned fuel costs yet, and the effect that has had on the price of all our daily groceries.
Seriously, how out of touch do you have to be to think "all people need to do is cut back on the only pleasures they have in life"?? are you Boris f
king Johnson?Edited by Ransoman on Friday 15th July 10:00
In the real world, energy is expensive.
No politician can change that.
Unless you want to live in some soviet state?
You might have to work hard if you want to use lots of energy.
Or do you think Rishi will borrow lots more money and give you a handout?
Trouble is, that's pushed down the value of the pound, pushing up energy prices.
People might have to cut back on non-essentials.
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