Discussion
LukeBrown66 said:
Let's be honest here, until everyone, (not just people in the higher tax bracket or close to it) can afford a car like this, it is just a gesture and a certain way of doing things to make it beneficial to yourself or for tax reasons, as if you are leasing something you might aswell now lease something greener when you come to end of contract.
But until you get people buying second hand electric cars for less than 5 grand (a vast percentage of the market) it is still just a bit of a gesture
Let's be honest here, is 22% a vast percentage of the market? That's the proportion of UK car buyers that plan to spend less than 5 grand on their next car, based upon latest YouGov data. But until you get people buying second hand electric cars for less than 5 grand (a vast percentage of the market) it is still just a bit of a gesture
43% of folks in this country plan to spend between 10 and 30 grand on their next car.
So, if people with means don't get a new EV in 2021 and send it to the used car market after a few years, where depreciation during its life will widen choices for buyers with lower incomes to get a used EV, how will the used EV market grow?
Link to YouGov data: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/consumer/articles-repo...
jason61c said:
LukeBrown66 said:
My point was that most people who are buying outright are going to be in the second hand market, leasing companies want you to lease obviously it benefits them hugely.
But for a huge number the second hand market is where we will always be, and that is not yet even close to fulfilling an electric side, people will either buy cheap old cars, old diesels for economy or smaller engine cars.
So, again this only really is a rich benefit, as these things usually are. it will be interesting to see how it trickles down over the next 10 or so years into the affordable side.
In 3 years the secondhand market will be full of them, once all the company leases expire. At that point, they’ll be choice and issues will be known about.But for a huge number the second hand market is where we will always be, and that is not yet even close to fulfilling an electric side, people will either buy cheap old cars, old diesels for economy or smaller engine cars.
So, again this only really is a rich benefit, as these things usually are. it will be interesting to see how it trickles down over the next 10 or so years into the affordable side.
Same as any other circa £50k car.
People buying them aren’t ‘rich’. 95% of prior I know have them to save money.
Volvolover said:
jason61c said:
LukeBrown66 said:
My point was that most people who are buying outright are going to be in the second hand market, leasing companies want you to lease obviously it benefits them hugely.
But for a huge number the second hand market is where we will always be, and that is not yet even close to fulfilling an electric side, people will either buy cheap old cars, old diesels for economy or smaller engine cars.
So, again this only really is a rich benefit, as these things usually are. it will be interesting to see how it trickles down over the next 10 or so years into the affordable side.
In 3 years the secondhand market will be full of them, once all the company leases expire. At that point, they’ll be choice and issues will be known about.But for a huge number the second hand market is where we will always be, and that is not yet even close to fulfilling an electric side, people will either buy cheap old cars, old diesels for economy or smaller engine cars.
So, again this only really is a rich benefit, as these things usually are. it will be interesting to see how it trickles down over the next 10 or so years into the affordable side.
Same as any other circa £50k car.
People buying them aren’t ‘rich’. 95% of prior I know have them to save money.
jason61c said:
It totally pains me to say it, i've given in and ordered a model 3 long range.
Don’t be ashamed and don’t worry, it’s a good car. If it was a steaming pile of you-know-what, then that would be different but it’s a good car. You are following in the footsteps of many hundreds of thousands and not everyone can be wrong. It’s not for me, but maybe one day, who knows.
The problem for me is that they don’t fit for what I would like. That’s ok, situations change, model ranges change and I will never say never. But for me one of the deciding points is the very small number of Tesla-stans (as they seem to be christened these days). So pro-Tesla it hurts. Their identity seems to be wrapped up in the whole brand and some how Musk is some sort of god. Those people can go suck it, but thankfully it’s a very small minority. And in a lot of cases online, most of them don’t even own a damn Tesla, so why are they being such idiots is beyond me.
There are idiots for any brand though. Some of the Porsche bigots are just as painful. Did a PCA drive and it ended up the GT owners and myself and a rather nice Chilean guy who had a mint 964! We had the lowly “cheap” models so they wouldn’t associate with us. Yeah, assholes with all brands.
Volvolover said:
jason61c said:
LukeBrown66 said:
My point was that most people who are buying outright are going to be in the second hand market, leasing companies want you to lease obviously it benefits them hugely.
But for a huge number the second hand market is where we will always be, and that is not yet even close to fulfilling an electric side, people will either buy cheap old cars, old diesels for economy or smaller engine cars.
So, again this only really is a rich benefit, as these things usually are. it will be interesting to see how it trickles down over the next 10 or so years into the affordable side.
In 3 years the secondhand market will be full of them, once all the company leases expire. At that point, they’ll be choice and issues will be known about.But for a huge number the second hand market is where we will always be, and that is not yet even close to fulfilling an electric side, people will either buy cheap old cars, old diesels for economy or smaller engine cars.
So, again this only really is a rich benefit, as these things usually are. it will be interesting to see how it trickles down over the next 10 or so years into the affordable side.
Same as any other circa £50k car.
People buying them aren’t ‘rich’. 95% of prior I know have them to save money.
gangzoom said:
You have plenty of choice, the only reason anyone gets a Tesla over any other EV these days is because they want one. Its not that hard to admit you actually want a Tesla 
.
That’s not true. I’m looking at one through my works green car scheme and the two main reasons are 1) it’s bloody cheap for the performance it offers 2) the charging network is so superior. I hate the way the model 3 looks, it’s so unbelievably bland but I will probably end up with one because as I said so cheap through the scheme that it’s hard to look past. So I don’t really want one but at the same time I kinda want one, heart says no, head says yes..page3 said:
r continue to enjoy them even at a premium now they realise they’re a “better” product.
This.Smoother, quieter, easier to drive, more responsive, better packaging so more practical, low maintenance and you can refuel whilst in bed.
For the vast majority a superior product to ICE.
djc206 said:
That’s not true. I’m looking at one through my works green car scheme and the two main reasons are 1) it’s bloody cheap for the performance it offers 2) the charging network is so superior. I hate the way the model 3 looks, it’s so unbelievably bland but I will probably end up with one because as I said so cheap through the scheme that it’s hard to look past. So I don’t really want one but at the same time I kinda want one, heart says no, head says yes.
So its a long winded way to say you do want one .Am not sure why people feel the need to justify wanting a Tesla over another EV....It not like admitting you have drink problem or similar
.gangzoom said:
So its a long winded way to say you do want one .
Am not sure why people feel the need to justify wanting a Tesla over another EV....It not like admitting you have drink problem or similar.
Ha I want one because it would save me £500 per month thanks to the f.Am not sure why people feel the need to justify wanting a Tesla over another EV....It not like admitting you have drink problem or similar
.
ked up tax system in this country and having looked at others if you’re going electric then Tesla is the obviously place to park your money given how good the charging network is. I’ve also been on the Chevy site this week eyeing up the Corvette C8. I’ve also got a Yaris GR on order so I’m a bit all over the place as to where I want to go next. If the Model 3 was better looking I’d already have one parked outside.I simply am aware that a few people who have tried them have either loved them or hated them, been surprised or shocked, they are a little bit of a Marmite thing for some right now.
I think if you live in a city, great, if you do low miles great, but if you have hobbies like watching racing, or even something like going hiking, canoeing, anything really, are you ALWAYS going to be able to plug in somewhere, somewhere cheaply, at the moment definitely not every time, it adds numerous factors to your journey and delays potentially, and we as a people dont like that.
The infrastructure is there for those with money, who can afford to charge them at their own homes, who can live in cities maybe, but not even slightly for anyone else. Yet.
I think if you live in a city, great, if you do low miles great, but if you have hobbies like watching racing, or even something like going hiking, canoeing, anything really, are you ALWAYS going to be able to plug in somewhere, somewhere cheaply, at the moment definitely not every time, it adds numerous factors to your journey and delays potentially, and we as a people dont like that.
The infrastructure is there for those with money, who can afford to charge them at their own homes, who can live in cities maybe, but not even slightly for anyone else. Yet.
nordboy said:
SWoll said:
Will depend on fuel and maintenance costs, but agree current EV finance costs do look very high.
You must have got quite a deal on the BMW?
I did get a VERY good deal on my 540 to be fair. You must have got quite a deal on the BMW?
Everyone lives differently
This is also not considering those millions that live in flats, or in cheaper housing, not everyone earns 50k a year and never will, they will live in flats, possibly road park, also things like terraced houses, where you can only park where you can.
Again this is the situation now, but can you realistically see it getting better, or do you have huge parking areas where people can leave their cars to park and ride to them in the mornings or when they need to use them, full of chargers, that is the only way I can see it, and developers will not want that as all they ever want is to maximise profit and build crap, cheap minimum space, maximum profit housing on those sort of plots. it will have to be done by councils or government.
it is not a simple fix unless you have your own property and even then only a house, not a flat earn a decent wage or live in cities, for millions this is not even slightly likely for at least 15 years.
This is also not considering those millions that live in flats, or in cheaper housing, not everyone earns 50k a year and never will, they will live in flats, possibly road park, also things like terraced houses, where you can only park where you can.
Again this is the situation now, but can you realistically see it getting better, or do you have huge parking areas where people can leave their cars to park and ride to them in the mornings or when they need to use them, full of chargers, that is the only way I can see it, and developers will not want that as all they ever want is to maximise profit and build crap, cheap minimum space, maximum profit housing on those sort of plots. it will have to be done by councils or government.
it is not a simple fix unless you have your own property and even then only a house, not a flat earn a decent wage or live in cities, for millions this is not even slightly likely for at least 15 years.
gangzoom said:
You have plenty of choice, the only reason anyone gets a Tesla over any other EV these days is because they want one. Its not that hard to admit you actually want a Tesla .
Simply not true. I f.king hate my Tesla - ste build quality, ugly as sin, crap range if you want to use the "performance" in its name (realistically 180miles on motorway). I'm only in an EV because it costs me absolutely zero as a company car. The supercharger network makes the whole experience just about bearable. Without it I would hand back any EV, even if "free".As someone else on here once said - Tesla make terrible cars, but they do make the best EV.
Order66 said:
Simply not true. I fking hate my Tesla - ste build quality, ugly as sin, crap range if you want to use the "performance" in its name (realistically 180miles on motorway). I'm only in an EV because it costs me absolutely zero as a company car. The supercharger network makes the whole experience just about bearable. Without it I would hand back any EV, even if "free".
As someone else on here once said - Tesla make terrible cars, but they do make the best EV.
I've often wondered why Tesla have gone into the full manufacture of EV's, and the associated problems such as build quality etc? king hate my Tesla - ste build quality, ugly as sin, crap range if you want to use the "performance" in its name (realistically 180miles on motorway). I'm only in an EV because it costs me absolutely zero as a company car. The supercharger network makes the whole experience just about bearable. Without it I would hand back any EV, even if "free".As someone else on here once said - Tesla make terrible cars, but they do make the best EV.
Their tech has been until now, and arguably still are, way ahead of most other companies. Surely selling this tech to some of the large vehicle makers would have been a better route to take?
nordboy said:
Order66 said:
Simply not true. I fking hate my Tesla - ste build quality, ugly as sin, crap range if you want to use the "performance" in its name (realistically 180miles on motorway). I'm only in an EV because it costs me absolutely zero as a company car. The supercharger network makes the whole experience just about bearable. Without it I would hand back any EV, even if "free".
As someone else on here once said - Tesla make terrible cars, but they do make the best EV.
I've often wondered why Tesla have gone into the full manufacture of EV's, and the associated problems such as build quality etc? king hate my Tesla - ste build quality, ugly as sin, crap range if you want to use the "performance" in its name (realistically 180miles on motorway). I'm only in an EV because it costs me absolutely zero as a company car. The supercharger network makes the whole experience just about bearable. Without it I would hand back any EV, even if "free".As someone else on here once said - Tesla make terrible cars, but they do make the best EV.
Their tech has been until now, and arguably still are, way ahead of most other companies. Surely selling this tech to some of the large vehicle makers would have been a better route to take?
Biggest issues for me are poor headlights, harsh ride and being forced to use the supplied infotainment/nav as no Carplay option. None if them major, just annoyances really.
nordboy said:
I've often wondered why Tesla have gone into the full manufacture of EV's, and the associated problems such as build quality etc?
Their tech has been until now, and arguably still are, way ahead of most other companies. Surely selling this tech to some of the large vehicle makers would have been a better route to take?
The other manufacturer's weren't having it.Their tech has been until now, and arguably still are, way ahead of most other companies. Surely selling this tech to some of the large vehicle makers would have been a better route to take?
Look at the history of the electric car.
Even now, they've been pushing back as hard as they can with campaigns, lobbying,...
Musk wanted to change the face of transporting and prove an electric car works and can be desirable.
As for Jason, how do you end up buying a car you loathe so much? Beyond my comprehension.
Tesla did do that they built the Rav 4 ev for Toyota, they built a phev drive train for Mercedes.
These companies ditched tesla and tried their best to kill them and the adoption of Evs in general.
Tesla never expected to become a volume producer of cars they expected to be a niche manufacturer whilst the big companies took over. They just didnt. They are still terribly slow to change.
These companies ditched tesla and tried their best to kill them and the adoption of Evs in general.
Tesla never expected to become a volume producer of cars they expected to be a niche manufacturer whilst the big companies took over. They just didnt. They are still terribly slow to change.
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