EVs - have they got it all wrong?
Discussion
CheesecakeRunner said:
DonkeyApple said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
But when you can charge at home, blocking a public charger for long periods just because it’s free is a dick move.
Chances are that it is empty almost all the time. The OP may in fact be it's only customer. I’m not making any comment on ability or not to charge at home.
I’m stating that making regular use a free service, potentially to the detriment of people who do need it, when you don’t need it, is abusive and a dick move. It’s obviously not empty all the time, because soupdragon is there, and he’s preventing others from using it who don’t have the ability to charge at home.
Just because a person can charge at home doesn't mean they should be any less entitled to use public/free chargers if available. As for leaving the car plugged in for several hours... that's how long it takes at such chargers.
TheDeuce said:
What we have are a series of technical challenges to make cell packs swappable... All of which are technically solvable, but none of which can be justified solving because EV drivers generally don't have any cause to care about charge times - they charge at home as they sleep.
Nio seem to have solved that problem as can be seen from the videos posted above. Battery swapping would not have worked for Tesla as a) they provided their own charging network and b) their owners were inevitably wealthy and likely to have off-road parking available, so the demand would not be there.So the technical issues have been resolved by Nio - for their own models. The economic issues require more work - for example on ownership/rental of the battery packs. But there could be a solution for those owners who are least represented amongst current EV owners - those with no off-street or dedicated parking, who cannot "charge at home as they sleep". There is nothing to say that all manufacturers would have to have swappable packs, or that all of a car's battery capacity would have to be swappable. Each manufacturer could even choose their own design of swappable pack - but would be more likely to reach an agreement with other manufacturers, in much the same way as wheel sizes or lead-acid battery sizes are standardised. Maybe smaller/cheaper cars make do with 50kWh swappable batteries, whereas larger SUVs have a swappable 50kWh pack and another 50kWh fixed pack - or just a fixed 100kWh pack.
CheesecakeRunner said:
DonkeyApple said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
But when you can charge at home, blocking a public charger for long periods just because it’s free is a dick move.
Chances are that it is empty almost all the time. The OP may in fact be it's only customer. I’m not making any comment on ability or not to charge at home.
I’m stating that making regular use a free service, potentially to the detriment of people who do need it, when you don’t need it, is abusive and a dick move. It’s obviously not empty all the time, because soupdragon is there, and he’s preventing others from using it who don’t have the ability to charge at home.
And this is just how passive aggressive blokes with beards and vaping kits deal with hostile situations. We can all imagine how the Ronnie Pickerings are going to react when they get into EV ownership and the policing of parking spaces and chargers that are absolutely nothing to do with them.
TheDeuce said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
DonkeyApple said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
But when you can charge at home, blocking a public charger for long periods just because it’s free is a dick move.
Chances are that it is empty almost all the time. The OP may in fact be it's only customer. I’m not making any comment on ability or not to charge at home.
I’m stating that making regular use a free service, potentially to the detriment of people who do need it, when you don’t need it, is abusive and a dick move. It’s obviously not empty all the time, because soupdragon is there, and he’s preventing others from using it who don’t have the ability to charge at home.
Just because a person can charge at home doesn't mean they should be any less entitled to use public/free chargers if available. As for leaving the car plugged in for several hours... that's how long it takes at such chargers.
. DonkeyApple said:
What would be a dick move is putting your personal home charger up on JustPark at £10/hour for local users without private parking to rent while you park your EV on the free public charger to lock them out and force them to buy from you. .
You are a cunning b. 
d but hmmm... 
Battery swapping in action:
https://www.rocktechnology.sandvik/en/products/und...
A few practical issues with the vehicle in terms of the school run tho'......
https://www.rocktechnology.sandvik/en/products/und...
A few practical issues with the vehicle in terms of the school run tho'......
Thing is in certain places you can foresee all sorts of issues with charging, as there will be a crossover time eventually when there are more EV than ICE and charging points will be at a premium, and whatever you say governments and councils NEVER get it right, so I can foresee this being an issue in time.
LukeBrown66 said:
Thing is in certain places you can foresee all sorts of issues with charging, as there will be a crossover time eventually when there are more EV than ICE and charging points will be at a premium, and whatever you say governments and councils NEVER get it right, so I can foresee this being an issue in time.
They have at least two decades to get it a bit wrong and then eventually a bit right.In fairness many people probably already think they've got it wrong.. but those same people probably didn't expect so much charging to be fine at home. I truth, I was one such person - I largely ignored EV thinking that it wasn't a real solution at least until charge times could get close to the time taken to fill up an ICE car.
LukeBrown66 said:
But is it not true that you pay handsomely for that privilege, if not for the car then the rapid charging?
My point was that the concerns over charge times at public chargers never came to anything because I and probably most others initially failed to understand that nearly all charging would be done at home - so in the end, headline about imhow long it takes to charge were just hyping the fear and missing the point.But to answer your question... Yes you normally pay a premium for the very fastest chargers. It's not normally enough to not warrant the convenience.
markj113 said:
how long would it take to swap over a "quick release" battery weighing 1/2 tonne?
About 3 minutes, using a drive thru with robots… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oTXptUuKGrcReview… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw
Edited by Mr Miata on Monday 29th November 21:31
And we return to my point about home charging which is not likely to be possible for certain homeowners or tenants for some time sadly. And even charging at home will likely add significantly to an already immense electricity bill in those houses, which are likely to be electrically heated.
LukeBrown66 said:
And we return to my point about home charging which is not likely to be possible for certain homeowners or tenants for some time sadly. And even charging at home will likely add significantly to an already immense electricity bill in those houses, which are likely to be electrically heated.
Whereas petrol and diesel are really cheap. Your commitment to relentlessly Eeyoring the thread without regard to accuracy is at least quite good fun.
LukeBrown66 said:
And we return to my point about home charging which is not likely to be possible for certain homeowners or tenants for some time sadly. And even charging at home will likely add significantly to an already immense electricity bill in those houses, which are likely to be electrically heated.
Right now, definitely those living in homes without private parking would struggle to make an EV work. But I'm guessing those is such houses probably can't bankroll a new EV right now anyway... so once again, this is only really an issue for the future, not today. Who knows what the cost of electricity might be then? Or what the government might do to assist people in flats and terraced house to operate an EV in a practical way.. or perhaps what the government will be doing to dissuade as all from using personal transport.We just can't know what will be the case in twenty years time. Before then.. no problem for those that can't afford or live with an EV, there is no barrier to continuing to buy and drive used ICE cars.
LukeBrown66 said:
And we return to my point about home charging which is not likely to be possible for certain homeowners or tenants for some time sadly. And even charging at home will likely add significantly to an already immense electricity bill in those houses, which are likely to be electrically heated.
They won't have to for a long time yet, as has been pointed out on numerous occasions by multiple posters.Even the most expensive home electricity tariff and least efficient EV are still massively cheaper to fuel than an equivalent ICE car.
LukeBrown66 said:
And we return to my point about home charging which is not likely to be possible for certain homeowners or tenants for some time sadly. And even charging at home will likely add significantly to an already immense electricity bill in those houses, which are likely to be electrically heated.
Well, you return to it. Again and again, like a dog at a bone.LukeBrown66 said:
And we return to my point about home charging which is not likely to be possible for certain homeowners or tenants for some time sadly. And even charging at home will likely add significantly to an already immense electricity bill in those houses, which are likely to be electrically heated.
But you need to explain why this is any kind of issue?Why does it matter if the least affluent can't charge an expensive EV that no one is telling them to buy right outside their front door?
How is domestic electricity more expensive than petrol?
I could see your point of electricity was more expensive than petrol but it is hugely less expensive. And if people without offstreet parking were being forced to buy EVs but they aren't.
Of all the issues related to EVs being cheaper to refuel and no one being forced to buy one aren't ranking particularly highly.
LukeBrown66 said:
But is it not true that you pay handsomely for that privilege, if not for the car then the rapid charging?
I paid no more for my electric car than I did for my previous ICE car that was comparable in size and range. I’ve paid no more for any type of charging than I would have for a comparable amount of petrol to do a comparable distance, often substantially cheaper.
The main difference is the EV isn’t £450 a year to tax and is a s
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