EV's ranked by efficiency
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
The order seems about right to me... Except the i4. Have BMW really created a coupe that is somehow less efficient than a load of larger and less aerodynamic SUV's?
Tbh the i4 is more perfomance-oriented than for example an e-tron. An M3 uses more fuel than a much slower Q7.But idd, that BMW doesn't look right sitting there. Maybe it has a great charge curve, which as we all know makes up for the terribly inefficient drive
I was hoping to see the ID3 higher up than it is though!
Unfortunately these ^^^ tests really mean nothing.
EVs are very efficient, so their consumption is linked to two main things
1) average speed during the test (because aero drag is dominant)
2) Cabin heating/cooling loads (the cabin heater can be MORE than the road load at low speeds!)
The best test for comparitive EV efficiency is to simply to take the EPA eMPG ratings, as these tests are very tightly controlled and highly repeatable:
EPA_Fuel_Economy
No "On road" test is repeatable enough to allow any fair comparison
EVs are very efficient, so their consumption is linked to two main things
1) average speed during the test (because aero drag is dominant)
2) Cabin heating/cooling loads (the cabin heater can be MORE than the road load at low speeds!)
The best test for comparitive EV efficiency is to simply to take the EPA eMPG ratings, as these tests are very tightly controlled and highly repeatable:
EPA_Fuel_Economy
No "On road" test is repeatable enough to allow any fair comparison
I've been confused about Bjorn's efficiency figures for a while, I've had a PHEV (BMW X1 X-Drive25e) for the last two months (courtesy car whilst my 440i is getting it's roof electronics repaired after water ingestion) and have averaged 3.7mi/kWh over that time (2,200 miles on electricity alone, I've used no petrol at all).
The wife has had a Passat GTE Advance Estate since May, and it's averaged around 3.4mi/kWh during it's use on batteries.
I can't see a PHEV being more efficient than even the most modestly designed pure EVs. Heck, the Q4 E-Tron I took for a test drive yesterday was driven like I'd stolen it and I still returned 2.7mi/kWh, driven normally I'd have seen well north of 3mi/kWh, probably closer to 3.7-3.8.
The wife has had a Passat GTE Advance Estate since May, and it's averaged around 3.4mi/kWh during it's use on batteries.
I can't see a PHEV being more efficient than even the most modestly designed pure EVs. Heck, the Q4 E-Tron I took for a test drive yesterday was driven like I'd stolen it and I still returned 2.7mi/kWh, driven normally I'd have seen well north of 3mi/kWh, probably closer to 3.7-3.8.
As a really dumb observation...
Smaller battery, lighter car = more efficient?
Not that I am surprised by this, more so of the associated commentary with some models around having the best co-efficient of drag etc, whilst obviously a contributing factor, it's not all that?
It just strikes me that manufacturer drive isn't really "green", rather what tag line sells. Surely energy efficiency has to be top of the agenda for environmental reasons all the way from concept, through production, use and end of life. It isn't good creating a demand for more energy, the ability to charge quickly doesn't seem like the right way to work the problem.
Cynically I suppose the true problem is how to generate profit.
I wonder if there will ever be a rating for a vehicles lifecycle energy consumption and how much the list would change.
Smaller battery, lighter car = more efficient?
Not that I am surprised by this, more so of the associated commentary with some models around having the best co-efficient of drag etc, whilst obviously a contributing factor, it's not all that?
It just strikes me that manufacturer drive isn't really "green", rather what tag line sells. Surely energy efficiency has to be top of the agenda for environmental reasons all the way from concept, through production, use and end of life. It isn't good creating a demand for more energy, the ability to charge quickly doesn't seem like the right way to work the problem.
Cynically I suppose the true problem is how to generate profit.
I wonder if there will ever be a rating for a vehicles lifecycle energy consumption and how much the list would change.
Dave Hedgehog said:
sixor8 said:
7 x Audi models, and 43rd was the best......
they are high priced low volume virtue signalling productsThey're better built, more comfortable and more traditional alternatives to what Tesla offer. No more of a virtue signal than any other large EV, at least not for us anyway.
Max_Torque said:
Unfortunately these ^^^ tests really mean nothing.
EVs are very efficient, so their consumption is linked to two main things
1) average speed during the test (because aero drag is dominant)
2) Cabin heating/cooling loads (the cabin heater can be MORE than the road load at low speeds!)
The best test for comparitive EV efficiency is to simply to take the EPA eMPG ratings, as these tests are very tightly controlled and highly repeatable:
EPA_Fuel_Economy
No "On road" test is repeatable enough to allow any fair comparison
ThisEVs are very efficient, so their consumption is linked to two main things
1) average speed during the test (because aero drag is dominant)
2) Cabin heating/cooling loads (the cabin heater can be MORE than the road load at low speeds!)
The best test for comparitive EV efficiency is to simply to take the EPA eMPG ratings, as these tests are very tightly controlled and highly repeatable:
EPA_Fuel_Economy
No "On road" test is repeatable enough to allow any fair comparison
For all the years I spend in my i3, doing the same journey throughout the year, the efficiency could vary between 2.3X mile/kWh to 3.5x mile/kWh
the traffic, the road condition, the weather, how i drive, have i pre-condition too many factors that affect the efficiency
mids said:
I wondered before posting if I cba with the inevitable experts pointing out what is obvious.
Personally I think 5000+ miles of road testing of a vehicle from various drivers in various conditions, averaged out is not a totally worthless number. We all understand it's not perfect, no further need to point this out in the thread (yet again).
The point being each of the vehicles will need to have been tested over a similar distance/conditions or a comparison table like the one provided is likely to give a false impression?Personally I think 5000+ miles of road testing of a vehicle from various drivers in various conditions, averaged out is not a totally worthless number. We all understand it's not perfect, no further need to point this out in the thread (yet again).
Be easy for someone to look at that table and immediately dismiss certain models (the i4 M50 especially) without understanding the data that sits behind it. Better to leave models off when they haven't got enough information to make a determination I'd suggest?
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