How much does your EV costs to charge?
Discussion
Largechris said:
Not at all. The maths is quite easy:
A 1kW system with four panels taking up eight square metres is estimated to generate 850kWh of energy output a year: that would fully charge the new Honda e 24 times over, which translates into some 3,250 miles of driving range.
That's pretty tiny by UK domestic install standards, a 4 person household would typically use at least 16 panels for 4000kWh of domestic useage.
In other words each square metre of solar panel installed would get you 400 miles of range per year IF you are either charging the car directly when the panels are working, or more likely are using a Powerwall to store the electricity and charge overnight.
I assume your Spain reference is in relation to the amount of sun available, however a point not often appreciated is that most common solar cell chemistry become noticeably less efficient in higher temperatures -
Solar panels are power tested at 25C, so the temperature coefficient percentage illustrates the change in efficiency as it goes up or down by a degree. For example if the temperature coefficient of a particular type of panel is -0.5%, then for every 1C rise, the panels maximum power will reduce by 0.5%.
So on a hot day, when panel temperatures may reach 45C, a panel with a temperature coefficient of -0.5% would result in a maximum power output reduction of 10%. Conversely, if it was a sunny winter’s morning, the panels will actually be more efficient.
Hope this helps.
I was refering to the sun availability rather than how much power it gives. Also the cost to install is unlikely to offset with free energy you are going to get.A 1kW system with four panels taking up eight square metres is estimated to generate 850kWh of energy output a year: that would fully charge the new Honda e 24 times over, which translates into some 3,250 miles of driving range.
That's pretty tiny by UK domestic install standards, a 4 person household would typically use at least 16 panels for 4000kWh of domestic useage.
In other words each square metre of solar panel installed would get you 400 miles of range per year IF you are either charging the car directly when the panels are working, or more likely are using a Powerwall to store the electricity and charge overnight.
I assume your Spain reference is in relation to the amount of sun available, however a point not often appreciated is that most common solar cell chemistry become noticeably less efficient in higher temperatures -
Solar panels are power tested at 25C, so the temperature coefficient percentage illustrates the change in efficiency as it goes up or down by a degree. For example if the temperature coefficient of a particular type of panel is -0.5%, then for every 1C rise, the panels maximum power will reduce by 0.5%.
So on a hot day, when panel temperatures may reach 45C, a panel with a temperature coefficient of -0.5% would result in a maximum power output reduction of 10%. Conversely, if it was a sunny winter’s morning, the panels will actually be more efficient.
Hope this helps.
Edited by Largechris on Thursday 9th December 11:02
martynr said:
I was refering to the sun availability rather than how much power it gives. Also the cost to install is unlikely to offset with free energy you are going to get.
I'm on solar as well, I have an installation that was about 14k EUR and does more than work for the car.I used to do 4000 EUR/year in diesel, which has now disappeared for me. In the current scenario I got a ROI of less than 5 years on that solar installation (there are still some costs involved wrt being connected to the net).
BUT
For now our rates still work with an old rolling back counter. Which means I have a virtually limitless free battery with no losses whatsoever. That will disappear. I'm two years in my installation and I'm foreseeing another at least three on this system but it's coming to an end.
At which point I will have to suck up the cost of electricity in the winter and I will install a home battery which can cover most of my needs for more than 6 months/year.
I looked into wind but it's a no go
martynr said:
Largechris said:
Not at all. The maths is quite easy:
A 1kW system with four panels taking up eight square metres is estimated to generate 850kWh of energy output a year: that would fully charge the new Honda e 24 times over, which translates into some 3,250 miles of driving range.
That's pretty tiny by UK domestic install standards, a 4 person household would typically use at least 16 panels for 4000kWh of domestic useage.
In other words each square metre of solar panel installed would get you 400 miles of range per year IF you are either charging the car directly when the panels are working, or more likely are using a Powerwall to store the electricity and charge overnight.
I assume your Spain reference is in relation to the amount of sun available, however a point not often appreciated is that most common solar cell chemistry become noticeably less efficient in higher temperatures -
Solar panels are power tested at 25C, so the temperature coefficient percentage illustrates the change in efficiency as it goes up or down by a degree. For example if the temperature coefficient of a particular type of panel is -0.5%, then for every 1C rise, the panels maximum power will reduce by 0.5%.
So on a hot day, when panel temperatures may reach 45C, a panel with a temperature coefficient of -0.5% would result in a maximum power output reduction of 10%. Conversely, if it was a sunny winter’s morning, the panels will actually be more efficient.
Hope this helps.
I was refering to the sun availability rather than how much power it gives. Also the cost to install is unlikely to offset with free energy you are going to get.A 1kW system with four panels taking up eight square metres is estimated to generate 850kWh of energy output a year: that would fully charge the new Honda e 24 times over, which translates into some 3,250 miles of driving range.
That's pretty tiny by UK domestic install standards, a 4 person household would typically use at least 16 panels for 4000kWh of domestic useage.
In other words each square metre of solar panel installed would get you 400 miles of range per year IF you are either charging the car directly when the panels are working, or more likely are using a Powerwall to store the electricity and charge overnight.
I assume your Spain reference is in relation to the amount of sun available, however a point not often appreciated is that most common solar cell chemistry become noticeably less efficient in higher temperatures -
Solar panels are power tested at 25C, so the temperature coefficient percentage illustrates the change in efficiency as it goes up or down by a degree. For example if the temperature coefficient of a particular type of panel is -0.5%, then for every 1C rise, the panels maximum power will reduce by 0.5%.
So on a hot day, when panel temperatures may reach 45C, a panel with a temperature coefficient of -0.5% would result in a maximum power output reduction of 10%. Conversely, if it was a sunny winter’s morning, the panels will actually be more efficient.
Hope this helps.
Edited by Largechris on Thursday 9th December 11:02
I'm available to discuss install costs as well if you would like.
We are in Austria. Ours is €0.13/kWh regardless of when it’s charged. Then there’s the wallbox and installation cost, plus the car, insurance, tyres, and a yearly road vignette (€89).
I just got €3000 back though from the govt as a subsidy.
So, total cost of ownership including everything is around €350/month for 48months. Paid by my company BIK and corp tax free. It’s cheap.
I just got €3000 back though from the govt as a subsidy.
So, total cost of ownership including everything is around €350/month for 48months. Paid by my company BIK and corp tax free. It’s cheap.
dave01253 said:
The problem I find with off peak tariffs is that the day rate is a rip off in order to pay for the night! I'm currently on 16.18p a unit (24hrs) and 7p a day standing charge. Its a fixed deal that unfortunately ends in about 6 weeks. The cheapest we found works out at about 45 pound a month more (for gas and elec).
Also, the KWh rating of a battery isn't a true 1:1 with mains electricity. I mean my 64kwh battery takes a bit more than 64kw to fill from AC. It's not massively more, maybe 10% or something. I need to investigate it further.
Last year my Octopus Go was 5p/kWh 12:30 am to 4:30 am and the rest 15.67p/kWh.Also, the KWh rating of a battery isn't a true 1:1 with mains electricity. I mean my 64kwh battery takes a bit more than 64kw to fill from AC. It's not massively more, maybe 10% or something. I need to investigate it further.
In September I moved over to Octopus Go Faster.
you choose from 4.5p/kWh for 3 hours, 5p for 4 hours or 5.5p for 5 hours.
You also choose when it starts with the earliest start time being 8:30 pm.
I chose 5 hours at 5.5p starting at 8:30pm. The day tariff went up 1p to 16.67p so not the rip off you say.
Apart from charging the car, all the other expensive stuff now gets done after 8;30 pm ie., dishwasher, dryer, washing machine, etc., etc.
Its made quite a difference.
On the EV cost side my i3S would do 5 miles/kWh in summer so my 98 to 100 mile commute (depending on route). cost £1/day against my ICE costing £25/day.
EV works for me.
Edited by so called on Friday 10th December 08:39
Europa Jon said:
There's a lot of BS here about how cheap EVs are to charge. If somebody signs up to an electricity supply contract now, they can't get a unit for 5p. B
oh look 5p/KWhhttps://octopus.energy/go/
and its not economy 7, the day rate is not higher
the problem you do have that because of all gas shenanigans the day rate is very high for all new contracts
Dave Hedgehog said:
Europa Jon said:
There's a lot of BS here about how cheap EVs are to charge. If somebody signs up to an electricity supply contract now, they can't get a unit for 5p. B
oh look 5p/KWhhttps://octopus.energy/go/
and its not economy 7, the day rate is not higher
the problem you do have that because of all gas shenanigans the day rate is very high for all new contracts
+ the times when you can get the cheap rate is tiny, it is just not worth it, for me.
I've just checked with BG, to change to an ev tariff for me would cost me £2128 a year more
and that is without the extra electric to run the car.
the BG price I suspect is the true reflection of the current cost of electricity
all none fixed prices are going to jump massively in april
this is worth watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQijnNxFNw
all none fixed prices are going to jump massively in april
this is worth watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQijnNxFNw
TheRainMaker said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Europa Jon said:
There's a lot of BS here about how cheap EVs are to charge. If somebody signs up to an electricity supply contract now, they can't get a unit for 5p. B
oh look 5p/KWhhttps://octopus.energy/go/
and its not economy 7, the day rate is not higher
the problem you do have that because of all gas shenanigans the day rate is very high for all new contracts
+ the times when you can get the cheap rate is tiny, it is just not worth it, for me.
I've just checked with BG, to change to an ev tariff for me would cost me £2128 a year more
and that is without the extra electric to run the car.With prices like that even a v12 with a drink problem wouldnt be too much of an issue.
TBF one is going soon.gmaz said:
Kona with 64kWh battery costs about £3.50 on Octopus Go 5p/kWh as there are ~10% charging losses.
I charge from solar when I can, which is free, and also the local Tesco but usually not there long enough to make it worthwhile
Are you saying that you charge your car in 4hours? From zero to full?I charge from solar when I can, which is free, and also the local Tesco but usually not there long enough to make it worthwhile
bulldong said:
gmaz said:
Kona with 64kWh battery costs about £3.50 on Octopus Go 5p/kWh as there are ~10% charging losses.
I charge from solar when I can, which is free, and also the local Tesco but usually not there long enough to make it worthwhile
Were the solar panels free then? I charge from solar when I can, which is free, and also the local Tesco but usually not there long enough to make it worthwhile
martynr said:
gmaz said:
Kona with 64kWh battery costs about £3.50 on Octopus Go 5p/kWh as there are ~10% charging losses.
I charge from solar when I can, which is free, and also the local Tesco but usually not there long enough to make it worthwhile
Are you saying that you charge your car in 4hours? From zero to full?I charge from solar when I can, which is free, and also the local Tesco but usually not there long enough to make it worthwhile
SWoll said:
I'd assume he means across multiple days. Best you're going to manage is 7kW on an AC home charger with the Kona so about 10 hours of charging in total.
In all fairness, 4h of 7000w in a kona will give you over 100 miles. Might not be enough for everyone, but will cover the vast majority of people's daily use. Dave Hedgehog said:
the BG price I suspect is the true reflection of the current cost of electricity
all none fixed prices are going to jump massively in april
this is worth watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQijnNxFNw
Isn't the price cap potential going to hit 30-40p per kWh? So pretty much 10p per mile for fuel costs on any EV, thats before government starts taxing electricity like petrol. Its not inconceivable EVs will cost more to run than petrol cars, which ultimately is what governments need to push for, less car usage overall, if anyone actually believes in climate change.all none fixed prices are going to jump massively in april
this is worth watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQijnNxFNw
The 5p per kWh prices are unsustainable if electricity costs don't come down.
I see Japan is now building coal power stations as they remain the cheapest way to generate electricity. If we want to have cheap electricity surely we have the answer?
Personally when it really come down to it, I care more about the cost to me for energy than how its generated.
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