How much does your EV costs to charge?
Discussion
pacenotes said:
The next is solar, If you get 3 phase you can go over the 6Kw limit which 6kw is great in the summer but not great for the winter.
The limitation of solar PV in winter isn't the size of the array, its the lack of sun!!You can have a massive 20KW array but for most of the winter you will generate barely enough to boil the kettle let alone go 'off grid'.
Don't forget to factory in heating costs, which is by far the biggest energy usage of our household in winter. The current push for ASHPs make no environmental sense at all as we are basically dependent on gas for electricity generation in winter. So why don't we just keep on using that gas to heat homes directly rather than generate electricity than use that electricity to heat homes??
The best cost saving you can do on the new build is go insulation mad, and get as close to a passive house as possible.
bulldong said:
pacenotes said:
Currently have a ICE car as I live in a flat with no way of sticking a cable out to it.
But going to be moving next year, A lovely new build our forever home and I'm going to make sure I do it right as we all know electric cars are the future even if it's the wife's car to start with.
I'm getting the builder to put in 3 phase electricity as that means if I pick the right EV I could charge at 22Kwph So thats 5 hours at night = 110Kw into a battery at 5p per KW = £5.50 In the real world you wouldn't be charging 0% to 100% every night so 110KW would maybe even be too much each night but its better to over spec as I might have two EVs in the future.
The next is solar, If you get 3 phase you can go over the 6Kw limit which 6kw is great in the summer but not great for the winter, I'm following some builds at the moment which I'm thinking of getting once we're in and they don't import anything for 3 to 4 months a year. With very little import the other time, Hot water and car full most of the time.
Electricity prices currently are skyrocketing, All these great ideas, Closing coal power stations, Gas skyrocketing, Nucular costing 23 billion to replace. Or I can try to produce and store as much as I can while everyone else says it's going to come down, Battery storage and wind is the answer yet the tech is there and the grid companies are not building it.... Because it would be easier instead of building a gigabattery why not put one in each house. Maybe EVs can help in this aspect.
Just a note, I’m pretty sure you won’t be able to charge at 22kw/h. It’s 11x2. So you can charge 2 cars at 11kw/h. Any more than 11kwh and the plug on the car end of the charger is different. But going to be moving next year, A lovely new build our forever home and I'm going to make sure I do it right as we all know electric cars are the future even if it's the wife's car to start with.
I'm getting the builder to put in 3 phase electricity as that means if I pick the right EV I could charge at 22Kwph So thats 5 hours at night = 110Kw into a battery at 5p per KW = £5.50 In the real world you wouldn't be charging 0% to 100% every night so 110KW would maybe even be too much each night but its better to over spec as I might have two EVs in the future.
The next is solar, If you get 3 phase you can go over the 6Kw limit which 6kw is great in the summer but not great for the winter, I'm following some builds at the moment which I'm thinking of getting once we're in and they don't import anything for 3 to 4 months a year. With very little import the other time, Hot water and car full most of the time.
Electricity prices currently are skyrocketing, All these great ideas, Closing coal power stations, Gas skyrocketing, Nucular costing 23 billion to replace. Or I can try to produce and store as much as I can while everyone else says it's going to come down, Battery storage and wind is the answer yet the tech is there and the grid companies are not building it.... Because it would be easier instead of building a gigabattery why not put one in each house. Maybe EVs can help in this aspect.
Happy to be corrected but that’s how ours works (we have 3 phase). If it makes a difference, 11kw is plenty fast enough so you don’t need to worry.
Also, one of the most inefficient uses of PV solar produced electricity is making hot water. Better to use it for charging the car and heat pump.
Yes, you can get 3-phase to the home, that's a good idea. However running a 22kW charger (note the unit) would mean using 32A on each 100A phase. Which may lead to further issues if/when you choose to install electrical heating (heat pump) or other high load devices (hot tub etc). You may be beater using 10kW which would be 16A across each phase, and is more common in cars today. (AFAIK only Zoe and some early Tesla are capable of 22kW charging).
Why you'd need 22kW charging for overnight charging I'm not sure. That's 80kWh at low price rates, which would be over 200 miles a day. A standard 7kW post would deliver a similar amount over a night on the odd occasion you came home late and needed 200 miles the next morning. Also, there's additional costs with 3 phase chargers (approx £1500 last time I checked).
Octopus GO is 4 hours at 5p. GO Faster tariff can be 3 hours at 4.5p or 5 hours at 5.5p per kWh (note the units). I'm not aware of any similar tariffs at this time.
11kW, 22kW upto 43kW is all delivered through the Type 2 AC socket which is the current Standard for AC charging. It does not use a different connector.
kW/h is not a unit.
There is no limit how big your solar array is, especially if you're trying to maximise winter generation for self consumption. But, there is a limit on what you can export back into the grid. So you are limited to approx 3.6kW per phase export, so on 3 phase that would be 11kW as the default limits from your DNO. You can request more, but that will depend on local power network limitations.
gangzoom said:
Don't forget to factory in heating costs, which is by far the biggest energy usage of our household in winter. The current push for ASHPs make no environmental sense at all as we are basically dependent on gas for electricity generation in winter. So why don't we just keep on using that gas to heat homes directly rather than generate electricity than use that electricity to heat homes??
.
A domestic gas boiler is about 90% efficient when operating. Not including gas lost in transmission system. 0.9kWh heat for every 1kWh in..
A modern CCGT is 60% when run at baseload. Lets lop further 10% off for transmission losses. A poorly performing Heat Pump is COP 2. A good one is 4. So a Heatpump is generating 1-2kWh heat for every 1kWh of gas consumed...
Evanivitch said:
bulldong said:
pacenotes said:
Currently have a ICE car as I live in a flat with no way of sticking a cable out to it.
But going to be moving next year, A lovely new build our forever home and I'm going to make sure I do it right as we all know electric cars are the future even if it's the wife's car to start with.
I'm getting the builder to put in 3 phase electricity as that means if I pick the right EV I could charge at 22Kwph So thats 5 hours at night = 110Kw into a battery at 5p per KW = £5.50 In the real world you wouldn't be charging 0% to 100% every night so 110KW would maybe even be too much each night but its better to over spec as I might have two EVs in the future.
The next is solar, If you get 3 phase you can go over the 6Kw limit which 6kw is great in the summer but not great for the winter, I'm following some builds at the moment which I'm thinking of getting once we're in and they don't import anything for 3 to 4 months a year. With very little import the other time, Hot water and car full most of the time.
Electricity prices currently are skyrocketing, All these great ideas, Closing coal power stations, Gas skyrocketing, Nucular costing 23 billion to replace. Or I can try to produce and store as much as I can while everyone else says it's going to come down, Battery storage and wind is the answer yet the tech is there and the grid companies are not building it.... Because it would be easier instead of building a gigabattery why not put one in each house. Maybe EVs can help in this aspect.
Just a note, I’m pretty sure you won’t be able to charge at 22kw/h. It’s 11x2. So you can charge 2 cars at 11kw/h. Any more than 11kwh and the plug on the car end of the charger is different. But going to be moving next year, A lovely new build our forever home and I'm going to make sure I do it right as we all know electric cars are the future even if it's the wife's car to start with.
I'm getting the builder to put in 3 phase electricity as that means if I pick the right EV I could charge at 22Kwph So thats 5 hours at night = 110Kw into a battery at 5p per KW = £5.50 In the real world you wouldn't be charging 0% to 100% every night so 110KW would maybe even be too much each night but its better to over spec as I might have two EVs in the future.
The next is solar, If you get 3 phase you can go over the 6Kw limit which 6kw is great in the summer but not great for the winter, I'm following some builds at the moment which I'm thinking of getting once we're in and they don't import anything for 3 to 4 months a year. With very little import the other time, Hot water and car full most of the time.
Electricity prices currently are skyrocketing, All these great ideas, Closing coal power stations, Gas skyrocketing, Nucular costing 23 billion to replace. Or I can try to produce and store as much as I can while everyone else says it's going to come down, Battery storage and wind is the answer yet the tech is there and the grid companies are not building it.... Because it would be easier instead of building a gigabattery why not put one in each house. Maybe EVs can help in this aspect.
Happy to be corrected but that’s how ours works (we have 3 phase). If it makes a difference, 11kw is plenty fast enough so you don’t need to worry.
Also, one of the most inefficient uses of PV solar produced electricity is making hot water. Better to use it for charging the car and heat pump.
Yes, you can get 3-phase to the home, that's a good idea. However running a 22kW charger (note the unit) would mean using 32A on each 100A phase. Which may lead to further issues if/when you choose to install electrical heating (heat pump) or other high load devices (hot tub etc). You may be beater using 10kW which would be 16A across each phase, and is more common in cars today. (AFAIK only Zoe and some early Tesla are capable of 22kW charging).
Why you'd need 22kW charging for overnight charging I'm not sure. That's 80kWh at low price rates, which would be over 200 miles a day. A standard 7kW post would deliver a similar amount over a night on the odd occasion you came home late and needed 200 miles the next morning. Also, there's additional costs with 3 phase chargers (approx £1500 last time I checked).
Octopus GO is 4 hours at 5p. GO Faster tariff can be 3 hours at 4.5p or 5 hours at 5.5p per kWh (note the units). I'm not aware of any similar tariffs at this time.
11kW, 22kW upto 43kW is all delivered through the Type 2 AC socket which is the current Standard for AC charging. It does not use a different connector.
kW/h is not a unit.
There is no limit how big your solar array is, especially if you're trying to maximise winter generation for self consumption. But, there is a limit on what you can export back into the grid. So you are limited to approx 3.6kW per phase export, so on 3 phase that would be 11kW as the default limits from your DNO. You can request more, but that will depend on local power network limitations.
jason61c said:
3 phase chargers are £500 from Tesla. that's teathered also.
Not everyone will be able to get 3 phase. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pricey-electric...
You can charge a car at 22kW as long as the onboard charger is happy to take 32A per phase rather than 16A, a lot only do 16A and hence 11kW on 3 phase.
Then if you charge at 22kW power you would be getting 88kWh over a 4 hour period to the car, and usual efficiency of chargers means around 80kWh of energy to the actual cells.
Sentence above is only to try help the SI unit abuse
Then if you charge at 22kW power you would be getting 88kWh over a 4 hour period to the car, and usual efficiency of chargers means around 80kWh of energy to the actual cells.
Sentence above is only to try help the SI unit abuse
Evanivitch said:
Lots of incorrect information here.
Yes, you can get 3-phase to the home, that's a good idea. However running a 22kW charger (note the unit) would mean using 32A on each 100A phase. Which may lead to further issues if/when you choose to install electrical heating (heat pump) or other high load devices (hot tub etc). You may be beater using 10kW which would be 16A across each phase, and is more common in cars today. (AFAIK only Zoe and some early Tesla are capable of 22kW charging).
Why you'd need 22kW charging for overnight charging I'm not sure. That's 80kWh at low price rates, which would be over 200 miles a day. A standard 7kW post would deliver a similar amount over a night on the odd occasion you came home late and needed 200 miles the next morning. Also, there's additional costs with 3 phase chargers (approx £1500 last time I checked).
Octopus GO is 4 hours at 5p. GO Faster tariff can be 3 hours at 4.5p or 5 hours at 5.5p per kWh (note the units). I'm not aware of any similar tariffs at this time.
11kW, 22kW upto 43kW is all delivered through the Type 2 AC socket which is the current Standard for AC charging. It does not use a different connector.
kW/h is not a unit.
There is no limit how big your solar array is, especially if you're trying to maximise winter generation for self consumption. But, there is a limit on what you can export back into the grid. So you are limited to approx 3.6kW per phase export, so on 3 phase that would be 11kW as the default limits from your DNO. You can request more, but that will depend on local power network limitations.
It’s not very often that I’m completely incorrect about everything I’ve written. Thanks for clarification. Yes, you can get 3-phase to the home, that's a good idea. However running a 22kW charger (note the unit) would mean using 32A on each 100A phase. Which may lead to further issues if/when you choose to install electrical heating (heat pump) or other high load devices (hot tub etc). You may be beater using 10kW which would be 16A across each phase, and is more common in cars today. (AFAIK only Zoe and some early Tesla are capable of 22kW charging).
Why you'd need 22kW charging for overnight charging I'm not sure. That's 80kWh at low price rates, which would be over 200 miles a day. A standard 7kW post would deliver a similar amount over a night on the odd occasion you came home late and needed 200 miles the next morning. Also, there's additional costs with 3 phase chargers (approx £1500 last time I checked).
Octopus GO is 4 hours at 5p. GO Faster tariff can be 3 hours at 4.5p or 5 hours at 5.5p per kWh (note the units). I'm not aware of any similar tariffs at this time.
11kW, 22kW upto 43kW is all delivered through the Type 2 AC socket which is the current Standard for AC charging. It does not use a different connector.
kW/h is not a unit.
There is no limit how big your solar array is, especially if you're trying to maximise winter generation for self consumption. But, there is a limit on what you can export back into the grid. So you are limited to approx 3.6kW per phase export, so on 3 phase that would be 11kW as the default limits from your DNO. You can request more, but that will depend on local power network limitations.
jason61c said:
3 phase chargers are £500 from Tesla. that's teathered also.
That's just the charger isn't it? Can't say I've ever considered buying a Tesla charger specifically. Assuming you need protection for over-current and DC fault leakage and possibly PEN on each phase? All adds upWe have had a 22 kW charger fitted at the office, the cost was around £1300 inc VAT fully fitted and signed off.
If you have 3 phase power or the option, just do it, the cost is not that much more and you have future-proofed yourself.
The faster you can charge the car the better, also having more power will make it a lot easier to add another charger if needed.
If you have 3 phase power or the option, just do it, the cost is not that much more and you have future-proofed yourself.
The faster you can charge the car the better, also having more power will make it a lot easier to add another charger if needed.
Evanivitch said:
That's just the charger isn't it? Can't say I've ever considered buying a Tesla charger specifically. Assuming you need protection for over-current and DC fault leakage and possibly PEN on each phase? All adds up
Technically it’s the supply unit. The charger is in the car. JonnyVTEC said:
Evanivitch said:
That's just the charger isn't it? Can't say I've ever considered buying a Tesla charger specifically. Assuming you need protection for over-current and DC fault leakage and possibly PEN on each phase? All adds up
Technically it’s the supply unit. The charger is in the car. 
It's funny because Tesla call it a "wall connector" in their material, but the FAQ calls it a Home Charging Equipment frequently.
Other manufacturers just call it a home charger.
TheRainMaker said:
We have had a 22 kW charger fitted at the office, the cost was around £1300 inc VAT fully fitted and signed off.
If you have 3 phase power or the option, just do it, the cost is not that much more and you have future-proofed yourself.
The faster you can charge the car the better, also having more power will make it a lot easier to add another charger if needed.
The issue is that you now have a demand of 32A on each phase, so if/when you need to install a Heatpump you could require a further 5-15kW spread across the 3 phases, chuck in maybe an electric shower at 10kW and the you start needing balancing devices.If you have 3 phase power or the option, just do it, the cost is not that much more and you have future-proofed yourself.
The faster you can charge the car the better, also having more power will make it a lot easier to add another charger if needed.
Evanivitch said:
TheRainMaker said:
We have had a 22 kW charger fitted at the office, the cost was around £1300 inc VAT fully fitted and signed off.
If you have 3 phase power or the option, just do it, the cost is not that much more and you have future-proofed yourself.
The faster you can charge the car the better, also having more power will make it a lot easier to add another charger if needed.
The issue is that you now have a demand of 32A on each phase, so if/when you need to install a Heatpump you could require a further 5-15kW spread across the 3 phases, chuck in maybe an electric shower at 10kW and the you start needing balancing devices.If you have 3 phase power or the option, just do it, the cost is not that much more and you have future-proofed yourself.
The faster you can charge the car the better, also having more power will make it a lot easier to add another charger if needed.
Evanivitch said:
TheRainMaker said:
Well if you can't make that work on 3 phase, what hope have you got on a single-phase
Which is why you could use a load sensing charger on a single phase 7kW charger. But why take on the additional expense for the rare occasion you need to charge at 22kW?PS you can also get 22kW chargers with dynamic load balancing, the cost difference between a 22kW charger and a 7kW charger is a few hundred pounds if that.
Being an engineer by trade and something of a nerd by character, not to mention possessed of the tight-fisted nature inherent to all Yorkshiremen, I do keep quite a close eye on the running costs for my E-Niro...
I'm managing to do the vast majority of my car charging during the 4 hour off-peak window on Octopus Go - 5p/kWh off peak and 13.3p peak rate (for now...). My average efficiency thus far, over about 11000 miles, works out to around 3.9 mi/kWh including charging losses. A 4 hour charge typically consumes 28.6kWh, so that amounts to £1.43 worth of electrical energy to travel 106 miles, giving an average cost of 1.36p/mile. This probably covers 95% of my usage; very rarely do I need to charge outside of the off peak window.
On one occasion a decent motorway round trip came (a little uncomfortably) close to fully discharging the battery. It took 66.3kWh to fully recharge ready for much the same trip the following day (again this is measured at the charging point, so that figure includes charging losses, the actual usable battery capacity is quoted as 64kWh), which necessitated 37.7kWh of peak rate charging on top of the 28.6kWh on the cheap rate. Total cost £6.44 for the 246-mile journey, so 2.6p/mile overall.
Note that I am positively dreading the end of this Octopus contract at the end of March! The 5p off peak rate stays the same but peak rate for anyone signing up now is an eye-watering 23.4p/kWh
I'm managing to do the vast majority of my car charging during the 4 hour off-peak window on Octopus Go - 5p/kWh off peak and 13.3p peak rate (for now...). My average efficiency thus far, over about 11000 miles, works out to around 3.9 mi/kWh including charging losses. A 4 hour charge typically consumes 28.6kWh, so that amounts to £1.43 worth of electrical energy to travel 106 miles, giving an average cost of 1.36p/mile. This probably covers 95% of my usage; very rarely do I need to charge outside of the off peak window.
On one occasion a decent motorway round trip came (a little uncomfortably) close to fully discharging the battery. It took 66.3kWh to fully recharge ready for much the same trip the following day (again this is measured at the charging point, so that figure includes charging losses, the actual usable battery capacity is quoted as 64kWh), which necessitated 37.7kWh of peak rate charging on top of the 28.6kWh on the cheap rate. Total cost £6.44 for the 246-mile journey, so 2.6p/mile overall.
Note that I am positively dreading the end of this Octopus contract at the end of March! The 5p off peak rate stays the same but peak rate for anyone signing up now is an eye-watering 23.4p/kWh
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff