Shockingly bad NCAP score for the Zoe
Discussion
I understand that the testing standards evolve, but it seems to undermine the credibility of Euro Ncap if a cars score can change so dramatically.
The problem for Renault is that a lot of people will see zero stars and say "Blimey, you wouldn't catch me in one of those. Absolute death traps.", even if it is still a relatively safe car.
The problem for Renault is that a lot of people will see zero stars and say "Blimey, you wouldn't catch me in one of those. Absolute death traps.", even if it is still a relatively safe car.
Lil_Red_GTV said:
The problem for Renault is that a lot of people will see zero stars and say "Blimey, you wouldn't catch me in one of those. Absolute death traps.", even if it is still a relatively safe car.
What's the other option though? Devise a test that nothing today can get 1 star on just so it gives meaningful values for future ones? Or simply give up on trying to make cars safer? I guess they could keep increasing the number of stars available, so leave this as a 5 star car but give anything new 20+ stars. The problem is arguably more ignorance of how the system works than an issue with the test itself.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 9th December 11:57
Lil_Red_GTV said:
The problem for Renault is that a lot of people will see zero stars and say "Blimey, you wouldn't catch me in one of those. Absolute death traps.", even if it is still a relatively safe car.
Our sister branch have already had 1 cancellation due to this and received an e-mail from someone who purchased their ZOE 18m ago, harking on about the car being unsafe, it was bought to ferry their child around in, they have labelled it a "deathtrap", don't want to use it any more and what are we going to do about this as they still have 2.5 years left on their agreement!!!!!
HTP99 said:
Lil_Red_GTV said:
The problem for Renault is that a lot of people will see zero stars and say "Blimey, you wouldn't catch me in one of those. Absolute death traps.", even if it is still a relatively safe car.
Our sister branch have already had 1 cancellation due to this and received an e-mail from someone who purchased their ZOE 18m ago, harking on about the car being unsafe, it was bought to ferry their child around in, they have labelled it a "deathtrap", don't want to use it any more and what are we going to do about this as they still have 2.5 years left on their agreement!!!!!I think it's perfectly understandable that they're fretting because their car achieved ZERO stars out of 5, I'm sure they feel they were missold the car.
I'd be interested to see what trading standards thought If they were to take it further.
ChocolateFrog said:
I want to know how crash worthy the actual structure of a vehicle is I don't care if it beeps and/or slams the brakes on everytime a car slows to turn left in front of me.
That's the thing though, even if you ignore the "active safety aids" bit the Zoe is still rubbish compared to more modern cars. People seem to have this bizarre idea that cars have ceased getting safer but it's just not true, the difference in actual crash safety between a car designed in 2020 and one designed in 2010 is enormous. Hence a Zoe only getting 43% for adult occupant protection where even cheap Chinese cars these days get 70+%.Edited by kambites on Thursday 9th December 12:41
kambites said:
ChocolateFrog said:
I want to know how crash worthy the actual structure of a vehicle is I don't care if it beeps and/or slams the brakes on everytime a car slows to turn left in front of me.
That's the thing though, even if you ignore the "active safety aids" bit the Zoe is still rubbish compared to more modern cars. People seem to have this bizarre idea that cars have ceased getting safer but it's just not true, the difference in actual crash safety between a car designed in 2020 and one designed in 2010 is enormous. Hence a Zoe only getting 43% for adult occupant protection where even cheap Chinese cars these days get 70+%.Edited by kambites on Thursday 9th December 12:41
I tooled about in a 96 Rover Mini as a student, probably the most dangerous car available at the time. Driving around in a new Zoe would not bother me but for a lot of people seeing zero stars will be a deal breaker. The reality being I bet not a single person has died in a side impact in a Renault Zoe.
I note that Which? Makes several cars Don't Buys, based purely on their lack of active safety features, which seems ludicrous to me.
Educating the masses (including journalists!) on the testing approach and moving goalposts seems to be the right answer.
The need for so many active safety/accident prevention devices to even get an average score I think warrants some debate about whether a split scorecard makes more sense. That way you can be reassured that if you crash your Dacia Duster, you're probably better off than in a 10 year old Golf.
I know the road safety lobbies won't be happy until zero injuries & deaths are achieved, but at some point we've got to be hitting diminishing returns and need to stop driving huge attribute compromises into the vehicle. There's a fair amount of cost carried with all the active safety systems, which an OEM can probably swallow on the premium stuff (and/or piggyback off existing systems/sensors included in higher spec cars) - but for lower cost vehicles it's a big deal. That's without reviewing the negative impact on visibility (especially rearward!) and vehicle mass that the newer passive safety standards demand!
The need for so many active safety/accident prevention devices to even get an average score I think warrants some debate about whether a split scorecard makes more sense. That way you can be reassured that if you crash your Dacia Duster, you're probably better off than in a 10 year old Golf.
I know the road safety lobbies won't be happy until zero injuries & deaths are achieved, but at some point we've got to be hitting diminishing returns and need to stop driving huge attribute compromises into the vehicle. There's a fair amount of cost carried with all the active safety systems, which an OEM can probably swallow on the premium stuff (and/or piggyback off existing systems/sensors included in higher spec cars) - but for lower cost vehicles it's a big deal. That's without reviewing the negative impact on visibility (especially rearward!) and vehicle mass that the newer passive safety standards demand!
ChocolateFrog said:
I tooled about in a 96 Rover Mini as a student, probably the most dangerous car available at the time. Driving around in a new Zoe would not bother me but for a lot of people seeing zero stars will be a deal breaker. The reality being I bet not a single person has died in a side impact in a Renault Zoe.
My first car was an MGB and I'm currently driving an Elise, both or which are probably not much better than your Mini. 
But rightly or wrongly people do care about crash safety and as long as that keeps getting better, the tests need to keep evolving. I'm sure our parents had exactly the same arguments about how over-the-top seat belts are.
GT6k said:
The up/Citigo/mii obtained 3 stars on exactly the same test whilst being smaller and cheaper.
The ZS EV got 5 stars and costs about the same, at least in terms of list price. I think there's much bigger discounts available on the Zoe though. Edited by kambites on Thursday 9th December 13:28
monthou said:
I wonder how many stars our mk1 Focus or 107 would get in today's test.
Actually I don't, I just drive them.
And will be less safe in an accident than in most newer cars.Actually I don't, I just drive them.
Odd post, the point is to compare with other options at the same price/size. If you're ferrying small children about it might make a considerable difference to your buying decision.
ChocolateFrog said:
Euro NCAP have made themselves largely redundant as a measure of actual safety these days.
I want to know how crash worthy the actual structure of a vehicle is I don't care if it beeps and/or slams the brakes on everytime a car slows to turn left in front of me.
The American tests seem far more thorough and use heftier equipment for the impacts which are more representative of the real world, surprisingly the safest car on the American market in side impacts is the Mazda CX-5!I want to know how crash worthy the actual structure of a vehicle is I don't care if it beeps and/or slams the brakes on everytime a car slows to turn left in front of me.
ChocolateFrog said:
Even though they don't have a point, they kind of do from a layman's perspective.
I think it's perfectly understandable that they're fretting because their car achieved ZERO stars out of 5, I'm sure they feel they were missold the car.
I'd be interested to see what trading standards thought If they were to take it further.
They're fretting because the car they bought a while ago doesn't get the same NCAP rating in tests that have changed since they bought it? I can't imagine trading standards can or will do much about it?I think it's perfectly understandable that they're fretting because their car achieved ZERO stars out of 5, I'm sure they feel they were missold the car.
I'd be interested to see what trading standards thought If they were to take it further.
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