Shockingly bad NCAP score for the Zoe

[ChocolateFrog]

Fast Bug said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Even though they don't have a point, they kind of do from a layman's perspective.

I think it's perfectly understandable that they're fretting because their car achieved ZERO stars out of 5, I'm sure they feel they were missold the car.

I'd be interested to see what trading standards thought If they were to take it further.

They're fretting because the car they bought a while ago doesn't get the same NCAP rating in tests that have changed since they bought it? I can't imagine trading standards can or will do much about it?

Probably not.

It does create plenty of bad blood between Renault and a few of its customers though, if they just dismiss it then that's probably a few less customers.

[kambites]

The problem really seems to come down to people treating the results of the test as dreadfully important without putting even the smallest amount of effort into understand what they mean.

[The Rotrex Kid]

kambites said:

The problem really seems to come down to people treating the results of the test as dreadfully important without putting even the smallest amount of effort into understand what they mean.

Exactly this.

Renault themselves have actually said 'Above all, our vehicles are designed to comply with all regulatory safety standards.
We do not design our vehicles for Euro NCAP performance.'

[Debaser]

If cars without active safety features score poorly, I'm going to have to include a low NCAP score as part of my criteria when searching for my next car.

[SWoll]

kambites said:

The problem really seems to come down to people treating the results of the test as dreadfully important without putting even the smallest amount of effort into understand what they mean.

As per your previous post would you not say the below are "dreadfully important" though? Nothing to do with safety assist systems, just pure crash protection.

Zoe

43% for "adult occupancy"
52% for "child occupancy"

Fiat 500e

76% for "adult occupancy"
80% for "child occupancy"

[kambites]

SWoll said:

As per your previous post would you not say the below are "dreadfully important" though? Nothing to do with safety assist systems, just pure crash protection.

Zoe

43% for "adult occupancy"
52% for "child occupancy"

Fiat 500e

76% for "adult occupancy"
80% for "child occupancy"

I have nothing against people considering the NCAP results important, it's considering them important without making any attempt to understand them which confuses me.

[Fast Bug]

Thing is it is an 8 year old car now, and was designed for the NCAP tests back then. Change the criteria and of course it will score lower, guaranteed the replacement will get 5 stars.

What does annoy me is the people that bang on about safety and kids in the car usually have PingPong ditch finder tyres, a mobile phone stuck smack bang in the middle of the windscreen and pay feck all attention whilst driving.

Oh and lane assist is st, worst invention ever for the real world where road markings can be cack and not always visable or actually on the road. First thing I did when I got my car was turn it off. Oh and it bongs to warn me that I'm about to drive head on it a pub that sits on the bend of a road

[SWoll]

Fast Bug said:

Thing is it is an 8 year old car now, and was designed for the NCAP tests back then. Change the criteria and of course it will score lower, guaranteed the replacement will get 5 stars.

What does annoy me is the people that bang on about safety and kids in the car usually have PingPong ditch finder tyres, a mobile phone stuck smack bang in the middle of the windscreen and pay feck all attention whilst driving.

Oh and lane assist is st, worst invention ever for the real world where road markings can be cack and not always visable or actually on the road. First thing I did when I got my car was turn it off. Oh and it bongs to warn me that I'm about to drive head on it a pub that sits on the bend of a road

They have actually made it worse though by altering the airbags, so that's not very good?

On lane departure I agree. It's the first thing I turn off when I get in now as comes back on automatically each time. Fortunately just a quick click on a button on the end of one of the stalks and job done with our Audi, was a real pita in the previous Tesla.

[Whatsinaname]

HTP99 said:

Nope, it was a 5 star car when originally tested back in 2013 at launch, since then there have been many changes in NCAP protocols, these protocols generally change every 2 years, since 2013 to 2021 the ZOE has remained largely unchanged, yet NCAP testing protocols have changed many times, with testing becoming far stricter, hence why the ZOE is now a zero star car, it is no less safe now than it was in 2013.

Edited by HTP99 on Thursday 9th December 12:03

Your statement isn’t entirely accurate though as the side airbag has been changed which has reduced the protection of the front occupants.
I fully accept that the standards change and it’s not fair to judge a brand new car against an 8 year old car but in this case a think Renault are partially to blame due to the airbag change

[blank]

The Rotrex Kid said:

Renault themselves have actually said 'Above all, our vehicles are designed to comply with all regulatory safety standards.
We do not design our vehicles for Euro NCAP performance.'

Surprised they've said that as they absolutely DO design and develop for a good ENCAP score, as do all other mainstream manufacturers.

They designed it for the ENCAP standard at the time and got 5 stars. The next gen one will be designed for the prevalent standard and get 5 stars too.

"Old design less safe than new designs" doesn't generate headlines though!

[RobDickinson]

A tests system that gives everyone top marks isnt worth bothering with.

Glad its moved on, Renault would have been aware of the changes a long time ago I suspect.

[Knock_knock]

I believe that 2022 is the last planned year for Zoe anyway, and that's going to be replaced by two models - a slightly smaller one and a slightly bigger one.

On this basis it's probably not worth them chasing 5 stars with the current model as it would require physical engineering, and new safety hardware and software which would probably mean a lot of system changes.

I expect neither the design or line owe Renault anything anymore so they'll be content to let sales gently dwindle while they focus on the new projects.

Bit poor, IMHO, removing/altering the side airbags tho.

[SWoll]

blank said:

Surprised they've said that as they absolutely DO design and develop for a good ENCAP score, as do all other mainstream manufacturers.

They designed it for the ENCAP standard at the time and got 5 stars. The next gen one will be designed for the prevalent standard and get 5 stars too.

"Old design less safe than new designs" doesn't generate headlines though!

Again though, when you alter an important component and make it worse that's not the same thing is it? What's to stop a manufacturer using slightly lower quality materials over the life of a model to save a few £, the effect of which is a lower score?

[monthou]

SWoll said:

monthou said:

I wonder how many stars our mk1 Focus or 107 would get in today's test.
Actually I don't, I just drive them.

And will be less safe in an accident than in most newer cars.

Odd post, the point is to compare with other options at the same price/size. If you're ferrying small children about it might make a considerable difference to your buying decision.

Not odd, just over your head.
People see the stars; they don't correlate stars, dates, changing criteria.

Given I spend more time on bicycles and motorbikes than in a car anything will be relatively safe anyway.

[wyson]

I just watched the video on the Euroncap website. Because they got rid of the side head airbag, the dummy’s head hit the pole in the side impact test.

That isn’t good.

Even with the sled, you can see the dummys head pile through the glass because of the lack of head bag.

That isn’t good either.

Comparing old and new tests, the new model is about 100kg heavier, has a larger battery etc. Not to be sniffed at if the crash structures weren’t updated accordingly. Couldn’t find that information, but the lighter car is going to generate lower impact forces.

Personally, the side impact video’s would make this car a deal breaker for me. I’ve been through the consequences of a side impact, never will take safety for granted again.

Also don’t know how Euroncap could justify anything less than zero stars when one of their testing scenarios was potentially fatal because of the missing head side airbag.

Edited by wyson on Thursday 9th December 22:34

[TheDeuce]

It is weird that the Zoe has gone backwards - even allowing for the new tests. By the looks of it, the revised one is genuinely less safe in some instances than the original. That's weird, but not a massive deal because like all modern cars, it's still very safe in most situations.

It's also not the only way in which the Zoe or pretty much any modern Renault is just a bit crap... As a company they really seemed to lose their way early in the naughties.

[kurokawa]

SWoll said:

As per your previous post would you not say the below are "dreadfully important" though? Nothing to do with safety assist systems, just pure crash protection.

Zoe

43% for "adult occupancy"
52% for "child occupancy"

Fiat 500e

76% for "adult occupancy"
80% for "child occupancy"

look at the video of Zoe
side impact driver head bang on the window, broke an arm, rear passenger have almost zero protection
compare to 2013 Zoe, driver have a better air curtain protecting the head and arm, rear passenger also look better support
seem Renault just cutting cost on new Zoe

[SWoll]

monthou said:

SWoll said:

monthou said:

I wonder how many stars our mk1 Focus or 107 would get in today's test.
Actually I don't, I just drive them.

And will be less safe in an accident than in most newer cars.

Odd post, the point is to compare with other options at the same price/size. If you're ferrying small children about it might make a considerable difference to your buying decision.

Not odd, just over your head.
People see the stars; they don't correlate stars, dates, changing criteria.

Given I spend more time on bicycles and motorbikes than in a car anything will be relatively safe anyway.

Exactly my point, they'll compare the rating of a new Zoe with the rating of a a new 500e and it could well influence their buying decision.

Not sure why you seem to think your posts are so difficult to understand though? Like I say, odd..

[SWoll]

kurokawa said:

SWoll said:

As per your previous post would you not say the below are "dreadfully important" though? Nothing to do with safety assist systems, just pure crash protection.

Zoe

43% for "adult occupancy"
52% for "child occupancy"

Fiat 500e

76% for "adult occupancy"
80% for "child occupancy"

look at the video of Zoe
side impact driver head bang on the window, broke an arm, rear passenger have almost zero protection
compare to 2013 Zoe, driver have a better air curtain protecting the head and arm, rear passenger also look better support
seem Renault just cutting cost on new Zoe

That's my point above. You can't just assume the rating has dropped solely due to changing tests as quite possible the car itself is just less safe due to differences in manufacture or components during it's lifecycle.

[monthou]

SWoll said:

monthou said:

SWoll said:

monthou said:

I wonder how many stars our mk1 Focus or 107 would get in today's test.
Actually I don't, I just drive them.

And will be less safe in an accident than in most newer cars.

Odd post, the point is to compare with other options at the same price/size. If you're ferrying small children about it might make a considerable difference to your buying decision.

Not odd, just over your head.
People see the stars; they don't correlate stars, dates, changing criteria.

Given I spend more time on bicycles and motorbikes than in a car anything will be relatively safe anyway.

Exactly my point, they'll compare the rating of a new Zoe with the rating of a a new 500e and it could well influence their buying decision.

Not sure why you seem to think your posts are so difficult to understand though? Like I say, odd..

I don't think it was a difficult to understand point, but it still seems to have escaped you. I'll try to make it easier:
OP: "Such a dangerous car - surely this model needs to be pulled from sale.... death trap"
The OP has seen the stars; nothing else. There are many, many older cars on the road that are objectively less safe than the Zoe, they just haven't been subjected to the same tests. Many of us here own / drive them.
If you still think that's 'odd' we all have our own opinions and I'm sure you'll tell me.