green charging - refuel at a garden centre :-)
Discussion
48k said:
Max_Torque said:
Expect to see much more of this sort of thing over the next couple of years:
Without wishing to be rude, but "no s
t Sherlock". This isn't news. Tesco and others already do it.All that is happening is cheaper shops can join is as EVs become cheaper. I don't know where 'dobbies' fits in to any consumer hierarchy but as 2021 has seen the arrival of many more affordable EVs and many are on Motobility then garden centres would be silly to not have chargers.
For people saying that 7kw is a scam, I suspect that they are thinking that EV drivers will typically be driving 200 miles to a garden centre and need a full recharge within the hour before driving 200 miles home. In reality, what people will be doing is driving a few miles from home to one shop, grab a bit of recharge while in the shop, then go on to the next one, grab some charge while there, off to the pub for lunch, grab some charge etc etc then home with a near full car.
While we are at work, the army of daytime shoppers will just be using these basic chargers to keep their basic crossover cars pretty much topped up the whole time. Waitrose will offer a superior charger to Aldi. Others will give it away to pretend to be more green etc etc.
Retail destinations that have consumers who travel further will offer quicker chargers, probably using pricing to push most onto the slow chargers etc.
Most people seem to drive their ICE around verging on empty and tipping in a few litres based on a financial spend they are comfortable with. With EVs, one has to think this will reverse and most will be driving around almost full and just topping up here and there wherever they park away from home. Those with driveways probably won't bother wasting time plugging in at a shop but Brits will commit genocide for a discount coupon so offering free electricity would get them very wet.
I’m torn on this news. I would’ve thought the average dwell time at a garden centre was a bit higher than would be suitable for rapid charging (a bit like at IKEA, where destination chargers would be far more appropriate than the rapids that have ended up there)
On the other hand, any new infrastructure is a good thing and if these sites have the power available to become charging hubs, let’s get on with it!
On the other hand, any new infrastructure is a good thing and if these sites have the power available to become charging hubs, let’s get on with it!
FiF said:
Evanivitch said:
FiF said:
Exactly this, local Tesco smaller superstore, 4 * 7kw, 2 * 50kw, AND free, amazingly.
Tesco Podpoint rapids aren't free.:sigh:
FiF said:
Evanivitch said:
FiF said:
Exactly this, local Tesco smaller superstore, 4 * 7kw, 2 * 50kw, AND free, amazingly.
Tesco Podpoint rapids aren't free.:sigh:
It's good news.
The garden centre will do it because they think it'll attract customers.
It's 7Kw because while they're happy to pay for an hour or twos charge they might recoup on sales, they also don't want to pay for your entire weeks travelling.
Having used 150 and 250kW chargers near to places to eat, unless you're nigh on empty, or the fast food is fast.. you'll struggle to get through a meal before the car is charged. Clearly that's not a good idea if you're a garden centre. And that's the point of a destination charger like this, the choice is shaped by:
1) How far most people have travelled to get there.
2) How long they think/hope people will stay.
The idea then to give back just enough to cover 1, if they stay as long as 2.
There's a shopping centre near me that has 50 chargers, all 7kW. When I go shopping there, I park in their carpark and get a free charge. I'm usually there just long enough to get the there and back charge back. It's a good reason to park there instead of one of the other carparks.
This also brings about the concept of "grazing", rather than using a rapid charger once or twice a week, your week is spent charging small amounts everywhere you go.
The garden centre will do it because they think it'll attract customers.
It's 7Kw because while they're happy to pay for an hour or twos charge they might recoup on sales, they also don't want to pay for your entire weeks travelling.
Having used 150 and 250kW chargers near to places to eat, unless you're nigh on empty, or the fast food is fast.. you'll struggle to get through a meal before the car is charged. Clearly that's not a good idea if you're a garden centre. And that's the point of a destination charger like this, the choice is shaped by:
1) How far most people have travelled to get there.
2) How long they think/hope people will stay.
The idea then to give back just enough to cover 1, if they stay as long as 2.
There's a shopping centre near me that has 50 chargers, all 7kW. When I go shopping there, I park in their carpark and get a free charge. I'm usually there just long enough to get the there and back charge back. It's a good reason to park there instead of one of the other carparks.
This also brings about the concept of "grazing", rather than using a rapid charger once or twice a week, your week is spent charging small amounts everywhere you go.
phil4 said:
It's 7Kw because while they're happy to pay for an hour or twos charge they might recoup on sales, they also don't want to pay for your entire weeks travelling.
The Gridserve press release mentions high power chargers.They’re very unlikely to be free anyway, they’ll be the standard 30p/kWh I suspect. Gridserve can provide AC charging posts with contactless payment, so I don’t believe they’ll be free even if they are 7kW.
Toaster Pilot said:
FiF said:
Evanivitch said:
FiF said:
Exactly this, local Tesco smaller superstore, 4 * 7kw, 2 * 50kw, AND free, amazingly.
Tesco Podpoint rapids aren't free.:sigh:
A) there is a car dealer over the road and more often than not the chargers are taken up with their cars.
or
B) An issue recently on one of the 50kw chargers, when I popped into Tesco there was a Tesla connected with all its doors open along with the boot and bonnet, the charging pop was being worked on by some engineers with all the covers off and they were wearing high voltage gloves like you see in F1 when a car comes back potentially live!
geeks said:
The 7kw ones at our Tesco are free, the 50kw ones are free if you have a VW, otherwise you have to pay. However, the main issue with them seems to be either:
They're not free to VW either. They are sponsored and partly funded by VW, but there's no deal.VW are part of Ionity discount partnership.
48k said:
It's completely relevant. It's literally the point I'm making. The retailer isn't teaming up with Gridserve for altruistic reasons. They want to attract customers. They want to give people a reason to come to them and not a competitor. Retailers have been doing this sort of thing for years.Several other posters have agreed with this point of view on the thread I'm not sure why you are persisting to argue. It feels like you are trolling so will leave you to it.
My point was that we have i think reached an important tipping point with BEVs. It's similar to the point at which our mobile cell network reached in the early 2000's, when suddenly enough people had a cell phone that investing in a network became not just sensible, but financially viable, ie the business case was improved by that investment.
it's the same with privately funded fast chargers. They are not that cheap, and have significant impact on the host site (from an infrastructure viewpoint), but now it looks like they have become "viable".
What this means is that once one retailer installs them, suddenly they ALL need to install them, and the charging network will increase exponentially!
PH posters complain that the chargeing network is not of a suitable capacity and quality to enable them to buy a BEV, well looky here, that network is maturing incredibly fast, and pretty soon i think that we will think about public charging in the same way as we think about petrol stations, as simply being there when we need them, ie, requiring little thought.
That is a major change imo........
Regarding the Tesco chargers, maybe it's a one off, maybe it's a temporary thing, I don't know. What I do know is that the zap map shows them as 27p/kwh, but then I was told they were free, and on a subsequent check there is a small, probably temporary to be fair, additional sticker.
Also what I do know is that zap map indicates the one in office car park is chargeable, but it is actually free, know that for *a fact.* No signs to say it's free. It's in a staff park which is also open to public pay and display, not cheap rates either so maybe that's how it's dealt with.
Also what I do know is that zap map indicates the one in office car park is chargeable, but it is actually free, know that for *a fact.* No signs to say it's free. It's in a staff park which is also open to public pay and display, not cheap rates either so maybe that's how it's dealt with.
Evanivitch said:
geeks said:
The 7kw ones at our Tesco are free, the 50kw ones are free if you have a VW, otherwise you have to pay. However, the main issue with them seems to be either:
They're not free to VW either. They are sponsored and partly funded by VW, but there's no deal.VW are part of Ionity discount partnership.
geeks said:
Evanivitch said:
geeks said:
The 7kw ones at our Tesco are free, the 50kw ones are free if you have a VW, otherwise you have to pay. However, the main issue with them seems to be either:
They're not free to VW either. They are sponsored and partly funded by VW, but there's no deal.VW are part of Ionity discount partnership.
phil4 said:
This also brings about the concept of "grazing", rather than using a rapid charger once or twice a week, your week is spent charging small amounts everywhere you go.
I think that sometimes people don't appreciate the total ubiquity of electricity. Its wherever Western humans are, unlike petrol which is restricted to a few select locations. The latter works perfectly well for allowing us to run our cars to empty but would be an irritation to be trying to top up a gallon or so everywhere you went. The converse being for EVs where the way we mostly use cars, loads of very short trips and the ability to put in a little bit of charge wherever you go is going to be more convenient. Evanivitch said:
Um no. Tesco have a model with VW and Podpoint to provide four 7kW chargers and maybe a rapid in some locations.
This plan is to offer rapid charging hubs of 12 high-powered rapids at locations.
"This is a UK-first partnership between GRIDSERVE and a major garden centre retailer and will initially see 30 ‘Destination Electric Hubs’ installed in Dobbies’ car parks across the UK, from Aberdeen to Ashford, each containing up to 12 high power EV charge points with connectors that support all types of electric vehicles"
My Tesco has 2 x 7kw, 2 x 22kw and a 50kw, so it's not the same everywhere. The 7's and 22's are currently free for up to 3 hrs (with app), 50 is 27p/kwh.This plan is to offer rapid charging hubs of 12 high-powered rapids at locations.
"This is a UK-first partnership between GRIDSERVE and a major garden centre retailer and will initially see 30 ‘Destination Electric Hubs’ installed in Dobbies’ car parks across the UK, from Aberdeen to Ashford, each containing up to 12 high power EV charge points with connectors that support all types of electric vehicles"
Thing is if you're just popping to the shops for some milk, it doesn't work.
Free on a 7 or a 22 for a couple of hours works in a supermarket or shopping centre.
If they're charging 25p+/kwh on a slow charger, especially if they only driven a few miles and can charge at home, people will not bother.
Those without home charging are going to want 10-80 in under an hour (depends on car of course)
DonkeyApple said:
I think that sometimes people don't appreciate the total ubiquity of electricity. Its wherever Western humans are, unlike petrol which is restricted to a few select locations. The latter works perfectly well for allowing us to run our cars to empty but would be an irritation to be trying to top up a gallon or so everywhere you went. The converse being for EVs where the way we mostly use cars, loads of very short trips and the ability to put in a little bit of charge wherever you go is going to be more convenient.
But hydrogen is literally everywhere, so obviously it must be the future....
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