E-Golf to Tesla Model 3 - am I mad?
Discussion
Right to cut a long story short I wanted an EV with more range than my much loved E-Golf. The local VW was giving me a fantastic price for my high spec E-Golf but was quoting 48 weeks for an ID3 to my preferred specification. They are happy to buy my E-Golf outright without any commitment to purchase at the price they quoted (they are making great money at present). Work colleague delighted with his Model 3 (older battery) and said why not think about one? Specced one up - base model with alloys and it can be delivered in twelve weeks. Cost to change a bit more than the ID3 but bigger car and witgh Supercharger network. But i read horror stories of poor build quality and bad paint finishes. Youtube suggests the latest Model 3 with the new battery represents a tangible improvement in range and build quality. If I buy first non VW since 1983!
oldmanbm said:
Right to cut a long story short I wanted an EV with more range than my much loved E-Golf. The local VW was giving me a fantastic price for my high spec E-Golf but was quoting 48 weeks for an ID3 to my preferred specification. They are happy to buy my E-Golf outright without any commitment to purchase at the price they quoted (they are making great money at present). Work colleague delighted with his Model 3 (older battery) and said why not think about one? Specced one up - base model with alloys and it can be delivered in twelve weeks. Cost to change a bit more than the ID3 but bigger car and witgh Supercharger network. But i read horror stories of poor build quality and bad paint finishes. Youtube suggests the latest Model 3 with the new battery represents a tangible improvement in range and build quality. If I buy first non VW since 1983!
For the short term I can’t imagine you are going to lose out even if you despise the 3. Get one enjoy it for what it is and if you don’t love it get back in the Q for the VW.
To be fair, any dedicated platform EV is going to be better than a compromised one. As good as the GTE or e-Golf might be, a dedicated EV will beat them on most metrics. And anything close to the top of the heap for EV’s is going to be significantly better.
A model 3 is far from a bad car. In fact it’s class leading in most areas and it really comes down to personal taste. The build quality stuff is valid and it’s widely reported that the later models are much better than before, so you should expect that a new build one should be fine. But you aren’t paying for build quality, you are paying for the platform, charging network and technology. If those are strong enough for you, then you can overlook the build quality issues.
If the model 3 was a bad car, it would be easy to knock. But it does drive well, had good performance and very good efficiency and range. They even are safe in a crash too! But ultimately comes down to personal taste, and that’s not something I can control. If it works for you, I doubt you will be disappointed. If you want or need something bigger, or need a better appointed interior, or want a much plusher ride, then it might not fit. And it’s better to be happy with your choice than regret it.
But bottom line, a model 3 is a better car than an ID3/4.
A model 3 is far from a bad car. In fact it’s class leading in most areas and it really comes down to personal taste. The build quality stuff is valid and it’s widely reported that the later models are much better than before, so you should expect that a new build one should be fine. But you aren’t paying for build quality, you are paying for the platform, charging network and technology. If those are strong enough for you, then you can overlook the build quality issues.
If the model 3 was a bad car, it would be easy to knock. But it does drive well, had good performance and very good efficiency and range. They even are safe in a crash too! But ultimately comes down to personal taste, and that’s not something I can control. If it works for you, I doubt you will be disappointed. If you want or need something bigger, or need a better appointed interior, or want a much plusher ride, then it might not fit. And it’s better to be happy with your choice than regret it.
But bottom line, a model 3 is a better car than an ID3/4.
The current generation of cars are much better than the earlier ones, plus all UK cars are made in China, not Fremont where a lot of the issues were coming from.
They are never perfect, but TBF most cars have their issues. Just Tesla appears to attract more press about it.
I drove the TM3 and ID3 back to back, the TM3 is a much better car and I came from an Audi.
A budget ID3 makes sense, once you spec up, the Tesla makes much more sense financially. The ID3 options are expensive.
The interior quality isn't much better on the ID3 and the infotainment is borderline useless, although updates are meant to have improved this, I haven't used one since.
The paint quality on the ID3 is just as bad if not worse.
Test drive one and make your own opinion.
They are never perfect, but TBF most cars have their issues. Just Tesla appears to attract more press about it.
I drove the TM3 and ID3 back to back, the TM3 is a much better car and I came from an Audi.
A budget ID3 makes sense, once you spec up, the Tesla makes much more sense financially. The ID3 options are expensive.
The interior quality isn't much better on the ID3 and the infotainment is borderline useless, although updates are meant to have improved this, I haven't used one since.
The paint quality on the ID3 is just as bad if not worse.
Test drive one and make your own opinion.
Other than 'because VW' I don't see what the argument for the ID3 can be Vs the Tesla. I'm not anti VW and I'm certainly not a Tesla fan boy... I generally prefer the European alternatives when it comes to EV. But on every metric the TM3 beats the ID3.
Imo the ID3 is a pretty poor first attempt at an EV by VW. I've no doubt there's better to come but the ID3 doesn't compare well to any of its rivals at the same sort of price point.
Imo the ID3 is a pretty poor first attempt at an EV by VW. I've no doubt there's better to come but the ID3 doesn't compare well to any of its rivals at the same sort of price point.
VWs since 1983 because of good local dealer and generally reliable durable cars that hold their value. However I think the accountants have tried to muscle in thus cheap, poorer quality materials and bargain basement software. I had a Mk8 Golf out as a loaner when my E-Golf was in for service and it took me twenty minutes to see how to demist the screen. Someone could go from my old 1983 Polo C into my 2019 E-Golf without a problem.
You really need to drive them both to decide, but I'll offer you my experience of choosing between the two. Like you, I've always had Golfs, from a 1979 MKI GTI to a 2018 MK7.5 R, with most things in between. Despite this I hadn't really developed any interest in the ID.3. I'd seen a few around and liked the look of them, but I was put off by VW's admission that they'd launched a car that wasn't really finished.
We test drove a Tesla in August and came away really enthused, and I was almost positive I'd buy one. There were a few niggles though. We drove it mainly on dual carriageway and road noise was fairly high. Ride over rough surfaces or road imperfections was a little harsh. The very first thing I noticed was the steering, it feels very disconnected. I also wasn't confident I would get used to everything being controlled and communicated by the large central screen. I didn’t particularly get on with the navigation and I was disappointed that you can’t use CarPlay. I’m not short by any means, but in my driving position I had to stretch to reach the lefthand part of the screen and checking your speed means diverting your attention from the straight ahead. I didn't mind the interior, but it's passable rather than anything special. Practicality was also a concern, especially coming from a long line of hatchbacks. The boot is large, but the opening felt quite small, inherently lacking the versatility of a hatch. I don't really think the looks would have ever grown on me, it's just a shape that doesn't even feature any interesting details. Performance is impressive, though as it would mainly be used for the family car, I questioned how important this was.
So I deliberated, and eventually made the 2 hour round trip back to Tesla Leeds by myself to try the car again. My initial worries felt compounded, and that was that. A good car, but not for me.
So we moved on. The choice of sub-£40k c-segment size BEVs is very slim. There are plenty of SUV/CUV type vehicles, but not a lot if you want a Golf-sized car. I find this a surprise considering how well served the ICE market has been for decades.
Due to my relationship with my local VW dealer I managed to get an ID.3 on a 24 hour test drive. I wasn’t really sure what to expect, and the car doesn’t give much away in terms of first impressions. However, right away the steering felt better, with more feedback and accuracy through the wheel. The ride is very noticeably better, perhaps partly due to the car having 50 profile tyres on the 19” wheels and a suspension set up tuned more for comfort. It felt more refined, quieter, and I really liked the way information was split between the main screen, the small display behind the wheel, and the augmented reality head up display. You sit higher up, but the driving position was better than the Tesla for me. I ended the day feeling like I’d really gelled with the car. It had done what so many Golf’s had done before it, silently impressed by just doing a good job of everything, the consummate allrounder.
I delved into some reviews to try and make sense of what felt like a rather underwhelming reception to the car, and complaints seemed to centre around patchy interior quality/materials on early cars, and the infotainment system. Both are valid criticisms, however I personally don’t think the interior is as bad as it is made out. Everything you touch is good quality, but there are some lower rent plastics dotted around the cabin. VW has seemingly addressed interior quality with the MY22.5 cars (built from 1st Dec onwards) which supposedly feature improved materials, vegan leather/alcantara seats etc. As for the infotainment, well the car had V2.3 of the OS, and I found the responsiveness and functionality fine. In reality I tend to set up most things then leave it alone. I became used to using the voice controls to operate the smart climate functions, asking the car to warm my feet etc. Again, early previews of the V3.0 software suggest a massive improvement in UI and functionality, so these things are getting better. The Tesla very obviously has the edge where outright performance is concerned, but both are very responsive and the ID.3 feels GTI-quick at lower speeds. I don’t really want or need much more in a family car. A special mention must go to the matrix LED headlights that are just superb.
So that’s that. The next morning I ordered an ID.3 in Max Pro Performance trim (basically every option ticked) in Manganese Grey with the 19” wheels. A decent discount saw the £39980 list price get cut to just under £35k.
I'd agree with the other posters who have said that the two aren't really comparable, but it absolutely isn't true that the Tesla beats the VW in every single metric. As for rivals at the same price point, what cars are we talking about here? The Kia e-Niro? The Nissan Leaf? I can't think of many BEV hatchbacks with decent performance, range and practicality for £30-35k...
We test drove a Tesla in August and came away really enthused, and I was almost positive I'd buy one. There were a few niggles though. We drove it mainly on dual carriageway and road noise was fairly high. Ride over rough surfaces or road imperfections was a little harsh. The very first thing I noticed was the steering, it feels very disconnected. I also wasn't confident I would get used to everything being controlled and communicated by the large central screen. I didn’t particularly get on with the navigation and I was disappointed that you can’t use CarPlay. I’m not short by any means, but in my driving position I had to stretch to reach the lefthand part of the screen and checking your speed means diverting your attention from the straight ahead. I didn't mind the interior, but it's passable rather than anything special. Practicality was also a concern, especially coming from a long line of hatchbacks. The boot is large, but the opening felt quite small, inherently lacking the versatility of a hatch. I don't really think the looks would have ever grown on me, it's just a shape that doesn't even feature any interesting details. Performance is impressive, though as it would mainly be used for the family car, I questioned how important this was.
So I deliberated, and eventually made the 2 hour round trip back to Tesla Leeds by myself to try the car again. My initial worries felt compounded, and that was that. A good car, but not for me.
So we moved on. The choice of sub-£40k c-segment size BEVs is very slim. There are plenty of SUV/CUV type vehicles, but not a lot if you want a Golf-sized car. I find this a surprise considering how well served the ICE market has been for decades.
Due to my relationship with my local VW dealer I managed to get an ID.3 on a 24 hour test drive. I wasn’t really sure what to expect, and the car doesn’t give much away in terms of first impressions. However, right away the steering felt better, with more feedback and accuracy through the wheel. The ride is very noticeably better, perhaps partly due to the car having 50 profile tyres on the 19” wheels and a suspension set up tuned more for comfort. It felt more refined, quieter, and I really liked the way information was split between the main screen, the small display behind the wheel, and the augmented reality head up display. You sit higher up, but the driving position was better than the Tesla for me. I ended the day feeling like I’d really gelled with the car. It had done what so many Golf’s had done before it, silently impressed by just doing a good job of everything, the consummate allrounder.
I delved into some reviews to try and make sense of what felt like a rather underwhelming reception to the car, and complaints seemed to centre around patchy interior quality/materials on early cars, and the infotainment system. Both are valid criticisms, however I personally don’t think the interior is as bad as it is made out. Everything you touch is good quality, but there are some lower rent plastics dotted around the cabin. VW has seemingly addressed interior quality with the MY22.5 cars (built from 1st Dec onwards) which supposedly feature improved materials, vegan leather/alcantara seats etc. As for the infotainment, well the car had V2.3 of the OS, and I found the responsiveness and functionality fine. In reality I tend to set up most things then leave it alone. I became used to using the voice controls to operate the smart climate functions, asking the car to warm my feet etc. Again, early previews of the V3.0 software suggest a massive improvement in UI and functionality, so these things are getting better. The Tesla very obviously has the edge where outright performance is concerned, but both are very responsive and the ID.3 feels GTI-quick at lower speeds. I don’t really want or need much more in a family car. A special mention must go to the matrix LED headlights that are just superb.
So that’s that. The next morning I ordered an ID.3 in Max Pro Performance trim (basically every option ticked) in Manganese Grey with the 19” wheels. A decent discount saw the £39980 list price get cut to just under £35k.
I'd agree with the other posters who have said that the two aren't really comparable, but it absolutely isn't true that the Tesla beats the VW in every single metric. As for rivals at the same price point, what cars are we talking about here? The Kia e-Niro? The Nissan Leaf? I can't think of many BEV hatchbacks with decent performance, range and practicality for £30-35k...
Just changed our e-golf to the ID3. Base spec Life but Pro Performance with alloy wheels. In every way it is much much better than the e-Golf. For £27k it seems to be much better value than the Tesla model 3 which was considered as was the Ioniq 5. I have had a Tesla Model S and X but never driven a Model 3.
So far we are quite happily impressed with the ID3 and can see why there are so many around. If you like VW so much why not see what the dealers have in stock?
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ID3 delivered, e-Golf on the way out….
So far we are quite happily impressed with the ID3 and can see why there are so many around. If you like VW so much why not see what the dealers have in stock?
.
ID3 delivered, e-Golf on the way out….
So I’d say I’m reasonably positioned to post in this topic…
The id3 is going back to On.to today after using it since 1st November as a stop gap until my 3 turned up. I had previously gone and test driven the following that were all in my budget of cars I can buy:
Tesla Model 3 (perf and LR)
Mercedes EQC
Mercedes EQA
Porsche Taycan
Porsche Panamera Hybrid
Nissan Leaf
Ioniq 5
Kona EV
VW Id3
VW Id4 GTX
Audi eTron GT
Audi eTron (the big bus sized one)
And I’ve put 50,000 miles on a BMW i3 and about 60,000 on a BMW 330e. You could say I’m into the electric vehicle thing.
I’ve also owned VW Golfs - mk3, mk4 and a mk6? (64 plate). I’ve liked my golfs - the mk3 was my first car and it was awesome. Hence going to test drive the id3/id4.
After all those test drives I looked to On.to to get a temp car whilst I was looking to buy. The id3 seemed the right mix of range, familiarity and value for money for what on.to offers.
(Edit: so I’ve covered 2500 miles in 8 weeks in the id3. Day driving. Night driving. Driving in the rain. Road trips (270 mile motorway jaunts) and nice trips on a-roads. So I’ve given it quite a test in the time I’ve had it).
The eqc was nice but wallowy and pricy. The Taycan is nice as a weekend car but would irritate me greatly as a daily. And after I optioned the roof bars or bike carrier I realised how stupid Porsche tax is (you need the £6k panoramic room for instance for roof bars…). The Ioniq I could only test drive in 2wd as the dealer said they would never have a 4am model to test drive - it’s interior is either leather and gaudy at the top spec or harsh and plastic ridden in the lower spec and uncomfortable.
I’m also use to I guess a nimble and easy to drive EV in the i3. One pedal driving when you do 15-20k miles a year is a luxury I don’t want to sacrifice. It seems all the VAG cars don’t really do one pedal driving. The “b” mode of the cars is awful when you know it could regenerate harder but you have to press the brake pedal to do so - where as in a bmw, a Tesla or a Nissan it’ll one pedal and you modulate your regen by easing off the accelerator. And the former creep forward like an old school auto, the latter “hold” and do not when you reach 0mph. The latter is far easier and less tiring on you in stop start traffic. Yes, the VAgG cars have auto-hold if you double tap the brake pedal. But I don’t want to do that a few hundred times a day if I’m heading home from a long drive and there’s stop start traffic.
The brake pedal is also awfully woeful in its lack of progression in the id3. As at some point it blends the brakes in with regen and it lacks being able to provide a smooth consistent stop if you need it and doesn’t help instill confidence in how it behaves.
The software is woeful. The id3 went into the dealer the other week as the ACC as mentioned elsewhere false detects speed limits and is basically dangerous. Either braking you from 70mph when it detects a nearby 30mph, or if like the other week on the m25 decided and displayed that the speed limit was 80mph for about 20 miles before I peeled off at J12 - so if I activated it I would have no choice but to speed. Wish I got a photo of that.
It’s down level on software right now (2.1) but even my local vw dealer can’t push it up to 2.4 which cures a lot of problems I’ve seen in my 8ish weeks of usage. They say the software is done centrally. When I was given the car back 2 days later they acknowledged they saw logged the cruise and charging faults id seen but all they could do was clear the log. When I asked about the ACC they said VW have recognised the fault in the ID cars. I asked if there was any workaround - there is not. So basically ACC isn’t usable.
Collision detection warning system is hypersensitive. It’s gone off due to leaves on the road, or a slightly raised drain which I’d happily cycle over. All these during the day, no traffic, dry conditions. The system probably went off 1-2 times a day.
Twice it decided I was plugged in and wouldn’t go into drive. I was not plugged in.
A few times it failed to charge. When it did charge, it got probably 30% of the kw charging rate my 2019 i3 did. Even though it’s capable of 200% of the rate. The best charging rate I saw was I think 50kw plugged into a 350kw charger when I was at 10% SoC after a 110 mile drive.
The scheduled charging ignores your scheduled end time. It’ll abide by the start time - so I set the car to charge 00:30-04:30 (octopus!) and my i3 and now the Tesla top up “what they can” in the timeframe and stop at 04:30. The id3 just keeps on charging…
The UI is awful. You can be in the car with it on for a good 1-2 minutes before you can do complex things like set the fans or set the radio station.
The light / demisters / fog light panel are behind the steering wheel so you need an arm with two elbows to reach it when in a driving position. Also don’t bother trying to turn the lights off in the day to avoid glare from the car / van in front from your own lights. The car will turn then back on in less than 60 seconds.
The air conditioning has twice stated it is not available whilst stationary and to consult the handbook. The next time you get in this error is gone.
State of charging is only displayed on one screen when you’re above 10%. And so it means you can’t have anything else on the main screen. Even though it could be displayed on the sidebar or on the dash screen. It gets displayed on the dash screen when you hit 10% or lower SoC. allegedly v3.0 software fixes this and starts rolling out in March. But as vw can’t push updates at a dealer level it could I guess be months after to get it?
Traction is awful on stock tires.
The app on the front screen displays useless information apart from range. Charging the car and want to know when it’s finished? Need to go to a secondary part of the app. Even though they have space to put such primary information front and centre when you open the app.
Oh and go look at the comical driver side door window switches. Could put all 4 on the door. Put two and a soft electric selection icon.
The id range alas smacks of a rushed job and incredible hubris. It’s dented my conception of the VW brand and VAG as a whole. It’s not even a half baked range of cars. They need to go back to the drawing board and consider doing some good usability studies than putting vastly stupid form over function. I hope the v3.0 software fixed the UI and the systems and sensors having so many false positives. Not sure how they can fix the light panel or the electric windows or how you can access basic functions easily with the screen space and the button layout they have.
It’s a shame. Wanted to like it. Instead just got incredibly disappointed.
Tesla - so far I’ve found the auto wiper function crap. Apart from that it’s so much better in every perceivable way.
Edited by caseys on Monday 20th December 09:39
Not that I can add much to this but a tip, if you don't like the Aero wheels on the base alloys on the Tesla....I had no idea that they are just hub caps.
Remove them and there's some rather nice alloys behind - There are nut cover and centre cap packs on eBay for a pittance.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194572714530?_trkparms=...
Remove them and there's some rather nice alloys behind - There are nut cover and centre cap packs on eBay for a pittance.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194572714530?_trkparms=...
No issues with build quality or reliability on my Mar 2020 SR+. Really pleased with it.
Just ticked over 13000 miles. The only fault was an o/s headlamp assembly, the indicator module failed.
The extra range of the latest version should add 20%, though it does have the slower motor fitted.
Just ticked over 13000 miles. The only fault was an o/s headlamp assembly, the indicator module failed.
The extra range of the latest version should add 20%, though it does have the slower motor fitted.
ajap1979 said:
ZesPak said:
It's a price issue. If you can afford the TM3, go for the Tesla. It's just better in every way.
Practicality? Ride comfort? Refinement?Pedal response - throttle yes. Brake pedal yes.
Steering feel? Yes on the “middle” mode, not sport or easy steering.
Practicability? If we’re talking practicality with charging? The Tesla. Bike rack? Both. Roof bars? Both. Need a large load that’s got a large size to it? The hatchback of the id3 wins.
Range and efficiency? The Tesla.
Lowest price? The id3
If you can afford both and are keeping it for a long time and do a reasonably large amount of miles? The Tesla.
Ps forgot to add the stupidity that the id3 has left hand drive wiper setup on a right hand drive vehicle.
Edit : as others have said, the tm3 is £15k (for the long range) more than what you can get the id3 for. But if you’re contemplating both I assume you can afford both and cost isn’t your primary driver.
I use my car every day. I’m happy to pay for something that makes me happy in a lot of ways, makes my life easier where it can and has few and far between things that bug the crap out of me
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