Mr Petrol's early thoughts on the move to EV
Discussion
I thought I'd just share my thoughts and hope to hear yours on the move to a BEV from an ICE car.
First week so it's not exhaustive but coming from a 440i to a Kia EV6 AWD I'm really surprised. The performance is similar but the peak power and peak torque being instantly available makes the BEV feel quicker / faster than the 440i.
The silence makes it feel more luxurious than it actually is, how Bentley and RR have not developed a pure EV is beyond me.
Anyway, the bad stuff, the weight. It's fine at 7/10 but beyond that it's noticeable. Maybe that's an unfair comparison but it's there if you corner with enthusiasm. Had a pedestrian walk out and a car pull out into on coming traffic and emergency braking was an ABS moment where as in the ICE would have been a non event.
I'm hoping new tyres will help, we'll see.
Big Pro, I can drive it like I stole it and not think oh man, fuel! (Yes, I do need to charge it but my provider is fully renewable).
Pro. Q carness. Surprising people at the lights will get old but as it looks like an EV you don't think it's sub 5.0 to 60. It's pretty hilarious in sport but it's not it's natural habitat.
In short summary. The future isn't that bad. Manufacturers are going to get better with EV's.
Yup, my "fun" car will be burning fossil fuel but my EV daily, it isn't that bad. Planning a trip to Europe in summer so I'll pass on my thoughts!
Be interested in hearing your own experiences.
Cheers!
T1b
First week so it's not exhaustive but coming from a 440i to a Kia EV6 AWD I'm really surprised. The performance is similar but the peak power and peak torque being instantly available makes the BEV feel quicker / faster than the 440i.
The silence makes it feel more luxurious than it actually is, how Bentley and RR have not developed a pure EV is beyond me.
Anyway, the bad stuff, the weight. It's fine at 7/10 but beyond that it's noticeable. Maybe that's an unfair comparison but it's there if you corner with enthusiasm. Had a pedestrian walk out and a car pull out into on coming traffic and emergency braking was an ABS moment where as in the ICE would have been a non event.
I'm hoping new tyres will help, we'll see.
Big Pro, I can drive it like I stole it and not think oh man, fuel! (Yes, I do need to charge it but my provider is fully renewable).
Pro. Q carness. Surprising people at the lights will get old but as it looks like an EV you don't think it's sub 5.0 to 60. It's pretty hilarious in sport but it's not it's natural habitat.
In short summary. The future isn't that bad. Manufacturers are going to get better with EV's.
Yup, my "fun" car will be burning fossil fuel but my EV daily, it isn't that bad. Planning a trip to Europe in summer so I'll pass on my thoughts!
Be interested in hearing your own experiences.
Cheers!
T1b
Completely agree. For a daily car they do a much better job than ICE as far as I'm concerned, but for the enthusiast even the sportier models are unlikely to hit the spot.
Hopefully as more and more people step out of their current cars into BEV's we'll be left with more choice of toys.
Hopefully as more and more people step out of their current cars into BEV's we'll be left with more choice of toys.
I agree on all points.
Particularly about instant power leaving the lights - it's hilarious
I have an iPace which is no slouch and the weight issue is pretty much nullified by power and traction but it's definitely 'there' if you really push. In the real world you'd have to seriously push to suffer it, but if you took the car to a track the weight would be hopeless. But we don't track our daily's so... in the real world it's just fast, down pretty much any b-road.
Funny to think this is PH and how much attitudes are changing here now! Just 2 years ago it was almost impossible to be an out and out EV fan but today I see posts from long term petrol heads loving their EV. There's zero doubt in my mind that for general car duties, including fun driving, an electric motor is simply superior to a lump of alloy that requires several thousand internal explosions per minute to make less progress.
Although I'm still a Piston Head so I'm far from done with ICE - but for the daily, ICE is s
te by comparison.
Particularly about instant power leaving the lights - it's hilarious
I have an iPace which is no slouch and the weight issue is pretty much nullified by power and traction but it's definitely 'there' if you really push. In the real world you'd have to seriously push to suffer it, but if you took the car to a track the weight would be hopeless. But we don't track our daily's so... in the real world it's just fast, down pretty much any b-road.
Funny to think this is PH and how much attitudes are changing here now! Just 2 years ago it was almost impossible to be an out and out EV fan but today I see posts from long term petrol heads loving their EV. There's zero doubt in my mind that for general car duties, including fun driving, an electric motor is simply superior to a lump of alloy that requires several thousand internal explosions per minute to make less progress.
Although I'm still a Piston Head so I'm far from done with ICE - but for the daily, ICE is s
te by comparison.Even with all the Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche electric cars out there, none of them do anything for me. Super expensive and none of them really stand out for me.
But the Kia EV6, thats an EV I would happily buy if I had the money. Looks absolutely superb, great specs, and super value for money. Puts all of the prestige brands to shame. Not surprised its won so many awards already.
Please do keep us posted with a long term review after you've done a fair few miles. Would be interesting to hear how you get on.
But the Kia EV6, thats an EV I would happily buy if I had the money. Looks absolutely superb, great specs, and super value for money. Puts all of the prestige brands to shame. Not surprised its won so many awards already.
Please do keep us posted with a long term review after you've done a fair few miles. Would be interesting to hear how you get on.
ads_4116 said:
Even with all the Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche electric cars out there, none of them do anything for me. Super expensive and none of them really stand out for me.
But the Kia EV6, thats an EV I would happily buy if I had the money. Looks absolutely superb, great specs, and super value for money. Puts all of the prestige brands to shame. Not surprised its won so many awards already.
Please do keep us posted with a long term review after you've done a fair few miles. Would be interesting to hear how you get on.
I am actually a little dissapointed by the EV6 :-(But the Kia EV6, thats an EV I would happily buy if I had the money. Looks absolutely superb, great specs, and super value for money. Puts all of the prestige brands to shame. Not surprised its won so many awards already.
Please do keep us posted with a long term review after you've done a fair few miles. Would be interesting to hear how you get on.
It's not that cheap, but it, imo still feels feels cheap, and it's a big car outside, but the low back styling makes the interior feel a little small.
Don't get me wrong, it's indeed good value compared to say an Etron, but it's nowhere near as good value as a basic Nero, where the price point means you can easily ignore the odd bit of scratchy plastic or cost cutting feeling.
Max_Torque said:
I am actually a little dissapointed by the EV6 :-(
It's not that cheap, but it, imo still feels feels cheap, and it's a big car outside, but the low back styling makes the interior feel a little small.
Don't get me wrong, it's indeed good value compared to say an Etron, but it's nowhere near as good value as a basic Nero, where the price point means you can easily ignore the odd bit of scratchy plastic or cost cutting feeling.
I get what you're saying, we came from a F82 440i, Ivory leather, very plush and felt imperiously good. That was in the good old days when an ex demonstrator with <400 on the clock could be had with a significant saving. So fast forward 5 years and we got a Kia that was 13k more expensive!It's not that cheap, but it, imo still feels feels cheap, and it's a big car outside, but the low back styling makes the interior feel a little small.
Don't get me wrong, it's indeed good value compared to say an Etron, but it's nowhere near as good value as a basic Nero, where the price point means you can easily ignore the odd bit of scratchy plastic or cost cutting feeling.
However, when you drive it the eerie silence makes it feel more luxurious than it actually is (bear with me on this one). Yup if you're coming from any of the big three prestige car makers you'll instantly see it as low rent, however when you live with the thing all that kind of disappears. The rear room is cavernous, ample rear leg space and reclining seats again make it appear more plush than it is.
Its hilariously quick and a recent challenging route was pretty entertaining! I was asked do I feel buyers regret now the BMW i4 is here? Not in the slightest, for all the reasons I wouldn't get a current Gran Coupe plus it's 10k more expensive, with no AWD (at my price point) and slower than what I've currently got?
When BMW get back to doing a bespoke EV platform I'll be on board (design direction not withstanding) but right now I'm very happy with the EV6!
Totally forgot to actually talk about my first long journey and motorway services charge experience.
So had a 220 mile trip yesterday, could have done it one charge but that would be a missed opportunity to try out the charging infrastructure.
The good
With Radar cruise the trip was an absolute doddle. The only drag being even having set it to a "normal" distance from the car in front the gap would be occasionally dipped in by another driver and the car would drop you back. Meh can't really blame that on the car. Journey was very comfy and SWMBO commented on the only noise being tyre roar and a bit from the A pillar. I did notice that conversation was a lot easier.
So with the heating on range was an estimated 253 from the outset. This seemed pretty accurate.
On the way back decided to "test" the charging. Stopped at Moto Rugby as they have 350Kw chargers and really wanted a "top up" as I had enough to get back. Charging was really quick, from 30% to 86% in about 30 minutes. Loo break and a coffee and boom plenty of power to get back.
The bad
A few of the chargers for what ever reason were not working, it was pretty full with cars being charged up so it was a case of waiting for a car that was being charged to leave, at least that way you knew it worked.
It being a Saturday probably didn't help but the machine wasn't particularly helpful. Insert CCS 2, pay, then it would say Remove cable Charging complete. Er it hadn't started. Go to another machine, the same. Bloke next to my charger thankfully explained "Yeah, that happened to me some don't work".
So that was that mystery solved (rather then me be a bit of a muppet, it just wasn't working).
Eventually got on one that worked and instantly was charging at 80Kw. As I understand it when loads of cars are charging the rate drops so was happy with as it was pretty busy.
Summary
I can safely say my issues with range anxiety were put to bed. Even though I didn't need to charge up, I was able to. Yes, there was a bit of a faff with chargers not working and having to wait till a working was free but ultimately in the time it took to park up have a comfort break, coffee and a sandwich the car had charged up 56% (just under 30 mins).
The real test will be a trip to Scotland but from what I've seen, I don't think it will be an issue.
Cheers!
T1b
M.F.D said:
Agree to an extent. Decent enough for a daily, but these are not 'fun' cars. Unless all you like doing is being a straight line hero from the lights.
EV's won't ever replace the thrill of an ICE car, no matter how quickly they go from zero to sixty.
As it stands I totally agree but I don't think it will remain that way forever. The Taycan has proven that an EV can be entertaining (at a cost) and as that tech trickles down to the rest of the range I've no doubt that the EV replacement for the Cayman will tick a lot of boxes for some.EV's won't ever replace the thrill of an ICE car, no matter how quickly they go from zero to sixty.
Will be very interesting to see what the next five years of development bring but yes, right now, in the sub 50k fun car market an EV isn't the answer.
T1berious said:
M.F.D said:
Agree to an extent. Decent enough for a daily, but these are not 'fun' cars. Unless all you like doing is being a straight line hero from the lights.
EV's won't ever replace the thrill of an ICE car, no matter how quickly they go from zero to sixty.
As it stands I totally agree but I don't think it will remain that way forever. The Taycan has proven that an EV can be entertaining (at a cost) and as that tech trickles down to the rest of the range I've no doubt that the EV replacement for the Cayman will tick a lot of boxes for some.EV's won't ever replace the thrill of an ICE car, no matter how quickly they go from zero to sixty.
Will be very interesting to see what the next five years of development bring but yes, right now, in the sub 50k fun car market an EV isn't the answer.
On the plus side I don't think we'll have to wait too long for some really fun EV roadsters to come along. The tech is already there to produce, for example, an all electric Z4 at a perfectly reasonable size/weight and with exhilarating performance, provided range isn't an issue. And frankly, why should range be an issue for a fun two seater? Most of the target audience don't buy such cars to do long trips anyway.. most people will have also have a second car as a two seater is generally impractical.
150mile official range, realistically 100 mile carefree and sporty driving could be achieved with a relatively small and crucially light and cheap battery pack. That sort of range would surely be enough for the average ICE roadster drivers mileage profile.
I genuinely believe that the only reason we haven't seen such cars just yet is that SUV's and other larger cars are simply a safer bet in terms of demand and also can accommodate enough batteries to give the car enough range to not worry people. In reality, more fun EV's just don't need that sort of range - albeit probably a hard sell initially because range does worry people, even if it's more than sufficient for their needs.
TheDeuce said:
I'd agree that sub 50k there's no real 'fun' EV's to be had. some would point to the Tesla model 3 but... I feel those that would haven't experienced a decent sports tuned chassis - which the model 3 is a million miles from.
On the plus side I don't think we'll have to wait too long for some really fun EV roadsters to come along. The tech is already there to produce, for example, an all electric Z4 at a perfectly reasonable size/weight and with exhilarating performance, provided range isn't an issue. And frankly, why should range be an issue for a fun two seater? Most of the target audience don't buy such cars to do long trips anyway.. most people will have also have a second car as a two seater is generally impractical.
150mile official range, realistically 100 mile carefree and sporty driving could be achieved with a relatively small and crucially light and cheap battery pack. That sort of range would surely be enough for the average ICE roadster drivers mileage profile.
I genuinely believe that the only reason we haven't seen such cars just yet is that SUV's and other larger cars are simply a safer bet in terms of demand and also can accommodate enough batteries to give the car enough range to not worry people. In reality, more fun EV's just don't need that sort of range - albeit probably a hard sell initially because range does worry people, even if it's more than sufficient for their needs.
I don't know about you, but I'd need rather more range than that. I quite like using my fun car to get places (I'm about to do a 600 mile round trip in 24 hours) and I wouldn't want to be forced to take the family ICE wagon instead because there is a dead spot with no chargers somewhere en route. We looked (slightly OT I know) at a Taycan 4S ST to replace the family wagon, but realised that you basically can't drive, e.g., from London to Northern Italy because the A5 in France has a gap between chargers that exceeds the Taycan's winter motorway range. I'm sure they'll build more, but until they have, and they work reliably it appears to be Tesla or nothing if you want to use the cars normally. And I won't have a Tesla.On the plus side I don't think we'll have to wait too long for some really fun EV roadsters to come along. The tech is already there to produce, for example, an all electric Z4 at a perfectly reasonable size/weight and with exhilarating performance, provided range isn't an issue. And frankly, why should range be an issue for a fun two seater? Most of the target audience don't buy such cars to do long trips anyway.. most people will have also have a second car as a two seater is generally impractical.
150mile official range, realistically 100 mile carefree and sporty driving could be achieved with a relatively small and crucially light and cheap battery pack. That sort of range would surely be enough for the average ICE roadster drivers mileage profile.
I genuinely believe that the only reason we haven't seen such cars just yet is that SUV's and other larger cars are simply a safer bet in terms of demand and also can accommodate enough batteries to give the car enough range to not worry people. In reality, more fun EV's just don't need that sort of range - albeit probably a hard sell initially because range does worry people, even if it's more than sufficient for their needs.
964Cup said:
I don't know about you, but I'd need rather more range than that. I quite like using my fun car to get places (I'm about to do a 600 mile round trip in 24 hours) and I wouldn't want to be forced to take the family ICE wagon instead because there is a dead spot with no chargers somewhere en route. We looked (slightly OT I know) at a Taycan 4S ST to replace the family wagon, but realised that you basically can't drive, e.g., from London to Northern Italy because the A5 in France has a gap between chargers that exceeds the Taycan's winter motorway range. I'm sure they'll build more, but until they have, and they work reliably it appears to be Tesla or nothing if you want to use the cars normally. And I won't have a Tesla.
I've been looking at a similar route and A Better Route Planner always wants me to go A6, A36, A39 to get to "that side" of Italy. And that involves going through Paris, which I can safely say isn't my idea of fun anymore! Going via Reims is better in my view and there are chargers at nice regular intervals; mostly Ionity or FastNed.Which bit of the A5 is a problem, and how do you end up on that road? (Ie. what destination?)
T1berious said:
As it stands I totally agree but I don't think it will remain that way forever. The Taycan has proven that an EV can be entertaining (at a cost) and as that tech trickles down to the rest of the range I've no doubt that the EV replacement for the Cayman will tick a lot of boxes for some.
Will be very interesting to see what the next five years of development bring but yes, right now, in the sub 50k fun car market an EV isn't the answer.
Define fun though?Will be very interesting to see what the next five years of development bring but yes, right now, in the sub 50k fun car market an EV isn't the answer.
There will never be the noise, drama, smell, feel etc that comes with a properly entertaining and mechanical ICE car. At best they will become competent performance cars, but fun, probably not ever.
Can you imagine going to a track day to watch a bunch of silent cars going round....
Knock_knock said:
964Cup said:
I don't know about you, but I'd need rather more range than that. I quite like using my fun car to get places (I'm about to do a 600 mile round trip in 24 hours) and I wouldn't want to be forced to take the family ICE wagon instead because there is a dead spot with no chargers somewhere en route. We looked (slightly OT I know) at a Taycan 4S ST to replace the family wagon, but realised that you basically can't drive, e.g., from London to Northern Italy because the A5 in France has a gap between chargers that exceeds the Taycan's winter motorway range. I'm sure they'll build more, but until they have, and they work reliably it appears to be Tesla or nothing if you want to use the cars normally. And I won't have a Tesla.
I've been looking at a similar route and A Better Route Planner always wants me to go A6, A36, A39 to get to "that side" of Italy. And that involves going through Paris, which I can safely say isn't my idea of fun anymore! Going via Reims is better in my view and there are chargers at nice regular intervals; mostly Ionity or FastNed.Which bit of the A5 is a problem, and how do you end up on that road? (Ie. what destination?)
M.F.D said:
Define fun though?
There will never be the noise, drama, smell, feel etc that comes with a properly entertaining and mechanical ICE car. At best they will become competent performance cars, but fun, probably not ever.
Can you imagine going to a track day to watch a bunch of silent cars going round....
Fun as a concept will differ person to person or driver to driver. Perfect example: The Audi RS3. Until this model year, it was never considered a "Fun" car by the motoring press. Massively competent but not fun, Chassis engineered to understeer being often cited as its fun chops downfall. Enter the new model, Audi have listened and turned it into a car the journo's agree is now fun (Drift mode \ Oversteer switch added for added um marketing? Or Fun, if you're less cynical).There will never be the noise, drama, smell, feel etc that comes with a properly entertaining and mechanical ICE car. At best they will become competent performance cars, but fun, probably not ever.
Can you imagine going to a track day to watch a bunch of silent cars going round....
Point is a lot of what has now made the RS3 more fun is down to software, agreed there has been chassis tweaks but the heavy lifting is down to software and allowed slip angles etc.
So fast forward 5 or 10 years those dull EV's might have engineered "playfulness" that we currently expect from a properly sorted chassis. I think the RWD Taycan's drift record or VW's ID Race car all point to fun being on the agenda at some point in the future.
The problem right now is battery weight and manufacturers needing to recoup their R&D costs. Solid state batteries will hopefully answer the weight problem but will be expensive till it hits the mainstream.
On the sound front, I recently heard a Taycan pass and wondered what all that noise was as its an EV. There, in the options is a sound generator!
Will it sound as good as a v10 screaming at 8.5k rpm? Of course not but just because its different doesn't mean that some won't find it fun!
Looks like fun to me! But I accept one persons fun is another persons bad time, after all we're all different.
M.F.D said:
T1berious said:
As it stands I totally agree but I don't think it will remain that way forever. The Taycan has proven that an EV can be entertaining (at a cost) and as that tech trickles down to the rest of the range I've no doubt that the EV replacement for the Cayman will tick a lot of boxes for some.
Will be very interesting to see what the next five years of development bring but yes, right now, in the sub 50k fun car market an EV isn't the answer.
Define fun though?Will be very interesting to see what the next five years of development bring but yes, right now, in the sub 50k fun car market an EV isn't the answer.
There will never be the noise, drama, smell, feel etc that comes with a properly entertaining and mechanical ICE car. At best they will become competent performance cars, but fun, probably not ever.
Can you imagine going to a track day to watch a bunch of silent cars going round....
T1berious said:
On the sound front, I recently heard a Taycan pass and wondered what all that noise was as its an EV. There, in the options is a sound generator!
For the Taycan it’s a recording of the sound of the electric motors during from the dyno testing. This is then amplified through the sound system both internally and externally. I really like it and wish Tesla had this as an option. Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff