Mr Petrol's early thoughts on the move to EV

[TheRainMaker]

I have now had my BEV for around three months, I have not once taken it out for a "drive".

They make fantastic daily drivers, but let's be honest they really are quite dull.

The ICE car still goes out for drives and meets, last week was the first time in a few weeks it was dry when I looked out the window when I woke up and straight away I thought "time to get the car out the garage".

I have no idea why they seem so boring and I have one of the quicker ones.

[TheDeuce]

TheRainMaker said:

I have now had my BEV for around three months, I have not once taken it out for a "drive".

They make fantastic daily drivers, but let's be honest they really are quite dull.

The ICE car still goes out for drives and meets, last week was the first time in a few weeks it was dry when I looked out the window when I woke up and straight away I thought "time to get the car out the garage".

I have no idea why they seem so boring and I have one of the quicker ones.

I think the design of each BEV hugely effects how much 'fun' it is, regardless of power.

I was disappointed with the M3LR vs my iPace in terms of fun and handling, which is totally back to front given the two cars form factors. I just think that driving a single EV isn't the whole story, there is are differing approaches amongst manufacturers as to what an EV can or should be like to drive.

By the way... Rain maker? Works for production? Do you do rain FX?

[TheRainMaker]

TheDeuce said:

By the way... Rain maker? Works for production? Do you do rain FX?

Nope, live events

The name comes from the clouds of steam which came out the exhaust of the Cerbera when starting on a cold morning.

[M.F.D]

SWoll said:

Simple question. You've got a quiet stretch of Welsh b-road in front of you and 2 sets of car keys.

One set is to a Model 3 Performance, the other to a BMW M2 Competition. Which keys do you pick up?

Or the same with a Taycan GTS and 911 GTS?

Or an i3S and GR Yaris?

Personally the EV's wouldn't get a second glance, despite being the most driver focused examples available.

Those stating that they would take any of the EV options in this list over the ICE car isn't a car enthusiast. I can't be bothered quoting it, but someone here said they are "over turbo hot hatches" which is a comment I cannot comprehend on a PH forum...

Glad to see some people finally talking sense on here.

[TheDeuce]

TheRainMaker said:

TheDeuce said:

By the way... Rain maker? Works for production? Do you do rain FX?

Nope, live events

The name comes from the clouds of steam which came out the exhaust of the Cerbera when starting on a cold morning.

I suppose any TVR can be blamed for creating it's own weather system in it's wake

Was only asking because I do provide rain and weather effects for automotive launches - just tracking the competition...

[TheDeuce]

M.F.D said:

Those stating that they would take any of the EV options in this list over the ICE car isn't a car enthusiast. I can't be bothered quoting it, but someone here said they are "over turbo hot hatches" which is a comment I cannot comprehend on a PH forum... #

Glad to see some people finally talking sense on here.

As opposed to all those petrol heads that resent modern reliance on forced induction?

We all know that original n/a Golf Gti was about as fun from a drivers POV as it could get. Same as my first car, CRX MK2 Vtec - 70mph in second at 8,400rpm and more induction noise than exhaust...

Turbo was a slug of torque that was partly welcomed, partly resented as it took away from purity. Same as EV taking away what is traditional with one hand, whilst adding to what is desirable in performance terms with the other.

It's all just evolution. We're all free to step off that train as and when we're tired..

[TheRainMaker]

TheDeuce said:

I think the design of each BEV hugely effects how much 'fun' it is, regardless of power.

I think a big part of the problem is, they are just a bit too good at being safe.

Fast but dull.

Maybe that could be a new car thing who knows, that and I've gone from a 500+ BHP rear wheel drive car to a 400+ BHP four wheel drive car.

[TheDeuce]

TheRainMaker said:

TheDeuce said:

I think the design of each BEV hugely effects how much 'fun' it is, regardless of power.

I think a big part of the problem is, they are just a bit too good at being safe.

Fast but dull.

Maybe that could be a new car thing who knows, that and I've gone from a 500+ BHP rear wheel drive car to a 400+ BHP four wheel drive car.

It's a different kind of 'potential' fun. In the right EV that low CoG and crazy level of traction along with torque gives you cornering ability that is frankly hilarious. Perhaps the Polestar 2 is setup for a different kind of driver experience?

I think the danger right now is comparing EV's based on power output as opposed to what the car is designed to deliver in driver terms.

"Fast but safe" could be levelled at many a car these days, especially EV's as they're all pretty new. That's not to say that's the potential of electrified cars - which was what this thread initially debated.

Did Volvo (or their subsidiary brand) ever set out to delight the hardcore driver? Other EV's are available and that list will only grow - already some are taking a far more performance (not just fast) direction.

[M.F.D]

TheDeuce said:

As opposed to all those petrol heads that resent modern reliance on forced induction?

We all know that original n/a Golf Gti was about as fun from a drivers POV as it could get. Same as my first car, CRX MK2 Vtec - 70mph in second at 8,400rpm and more induction noise than exhaust...

Turbo was a slug of torque that was partly welcomed, partly resented as it took away from purity. Same as EV taking away what is traditional with one hand, whilst adding to what is desirable in performance terms with the other.

It's all just evolution. We're all free to step off that train as and when we're tired..

Aspiration doesn't define a drivers car. F40 was turbocharged and is still to this day regarded as one of the best drivers car ever.

R26.R is a turbocharged hot hatch, not 'pure'?

Continue on your evolution train. Enjoy the future. Once day you'll wish we could go back.

[ZesPak]

M.F.D said:

Aspiration doesn't define a drivers car. F40 was turbocharged and is still to this day regarded as one of the best drivers car ever.

R26.R is a turbocharged hot hatch, not 'pure'?

I think you missed the point entirely.
These (and many others) are undeniably great cars, but because they are turboed, some purists will dismiss them long before they were even conceived.
Something like "a forced induction car will never be a good driver's car".

M.F.D said:

Continue on your evolution train. Enjoy the future. Once day you'll wish we could go back.

Once again you're stating opinions as facts. In terms of drivetrains, no, I really won't.

[TheDeuce]

M.F.D said:

Aspiration doesn't define a drivers car. F40 was turbocharged and is still to this day regarded as one of the best drivers car ever.

R26.R is a turbocharged hot hatch, not 'pure'?

Continue on your evolution train. Enjoy the future. Once day you'll wish we could go back.

What do you mean wish I could go back? I'm not being forced to move on at all - we can all have and cherish ICE cars for so long as we desire. The past is ours.

The fact I also find some hope in the future just means there's more for me to look forward to in addition to what I already enjoy.

This really isn't an either/or deal.

[JAMSXR]

Recently started looking at EVs to potentially replace my wife’s X1. We’ve got circa 45k cash to spend, but to my frustration, nothing is jumping out at us, it’s all rather uninspiring.

I’ve come to the conclusion that in 3-years time the new market will be more competitive/exiting, and hopefully the current crop of white goods EVs will be a more attractive proposition in the used market.

If only we had 100k burning a hole, I would snap up a Taycan.

Edited by JAMSXR on Friday 11th February 09:28

[SWoll]

JAMSXR said:

Recently started looking at EVs to potentially replace my wife’s X1. We’ve got circa 45k cash to spend, but to my frustration, nothing is jumping out at us, it’s all rather uninspiring.

I’ve come to the conclusion that in 3-years time the new market will be more competitive/exiting, and hopefully the current crop of white goods EVs will be a more attractive proposition in the used market.

If only we had 100k burning a hole, I would snap up a Taycan.

Edited by JAMSXR on Friday 11th February 09:28

You're struggling to find anything to replace an X1 for £45k? EV6, Ioniq 5, Q4 eTron, Mercedes EQA etc. not suitable?

[gangzoom]

JAMSXR said:

I’ve come to the conclusion that in 3-years time the new market will be more competitive/exiting, and hopefully the current crop of white goods EVs will be a more attractive proposition in the used market.

With inflation been projected to hit 7%, the risk would very much be yes there will be more choice but £45k may just get you entry into a MG EV, and anything vaguely 'interesting' will be well into the £60-70k range, whilst the top end will be easily pushing £120k+ given £100k is already the accepted price point for the more 'premium' EVs......

....EVs certainly aren't gettint any cheaper at present, just don't ask your boss for a raise.

[ZesPak]

SWoll said:

You're struggling to find anything to replace an X1 for £45k? EV6, Ioniq 5, Q4 eTron, Mercedes EQA etc. not suitable?

I was just thinking that's the only segment with so much choice. Though all those except the EQA are definitely a class bigger.

[JAMSXR]

SWoll said:

JAMSXR said:

Recently started looking at EVs to potentially replace my wife’s X1. We’ve got circa 45k cash to spend, but to my frustration, nothing is jumping out at us, it’s all rather uninspiring.

I’ve come to the conclusion that in 3-years time the new market will be more competitive/exiting, and hopefully the current crop of white goods EVs will be a more attractive proposition in the used market.

If only we had 100k burning a hole, I would snap up a Taycan.

Edited by JAMSXR on Friday 11th February 09:28

You're struggling to find anything to replace an X1 for £45k? EV6, Ioniq 5, Q4 eTron, Mercedes EQA etc. not suitable?

Having sat in the EV6 and Ioniq 5, they really do very little for me or the mrs. I like the Ioniq 5 from the outside but the inside seems pretty poor for what’s getting on for a 50k car if you want dual motors.

The EQA has a tiny boot and you need to spend north of 50k to get leather in the Audi.

It then comes down to spending an extra 20k over the X1 to sit in something that’s not really any better. Maybe I need another test drive, but it’s really not stacking up right now.

[SWoll]

gangzoom said:

JAMSXR said:

I’ve come to the conclusion that in 3-years time the new market will be more competitive/exiting, and hopefully the current crop of white goods EVs will be a more attractive proposition in the used market.

With inflation been projected to hit 7%, the risk would very much be yes there will be more choice but £45k may just get you entry into a MG EV, and anything vaguely 'interesting' will be well into the £60-70k range, whilst the top end will be easily pushing £120k+ given £100k is already the accepted price point for the more 'premium' EVs......

....EVs certainly aren't gettint any cheaper at present, just don't ask your boss for a raise.

Since when is £100k the accepted price point for a premium EV? EQC, eTron, iPace, Taycan, eTron GT, iX are all available from £65-80k.

£45k for an entry level MG ZS in 3 years time? That a £27k car today, what have you been drinking GZ?

Edited by SWoll on Friday 11th February 11:18

[SWoll]

JAMSXR said:

Having sat in the EV6 and Ioniq 5, they really do very little for me or the mrs. I like the Ioniq 5 from the outside but the inside seems pretty poor for what’s getting on for a 50k car if you want dual motors.

The EQA has a tiny boot and you need to spend north of 50k to get leather in the Audi.

It then comes down to spending an extra 20k over the X1 to sit in something that’s not really any better. Maybe I need another test drive, but it’s really not stacking up right now.

Not sure what X1 you have but if you're comparing the used value with a new car then that shouldn't be much of a surprise?

Comparing used to used £45k would get you into a lightly used etron 50 with leather and a huge boot?

You can also get leather in the Q4 for < £45k BTW.

[JAMSXR]

SWoll said:

Not sure what X1 you have but if you're comparing the used value with a new car then that shouldn't be much of a surprise?

Comparing used to used £45k would get you into a lightly used etron 50 with leather and a huge boot?

You can also get leather in the Q4 for < £45k BTW.

Thanks - this is helpful. I think my mistake was looking at Auto Trader, I guess their prices are inflated due to lead times. I was looking on both the Hyundai and Kia sites but didn’t venture over to Audi.

I think my disappointment is down to the fact I’m used to buying nearly new and getting a good deal. The supply chain constraints combined with the EV market being so new, and you’re really not going to get much of a deal in the used market.

I would hope in the next 12-18 months the used market becomes a little more saturated and there are deals to be had.

According to the internet, it will cost more to produce electric cars over ICE for at least the next 5-years, so there won’t be any seismic shifts in the forceable future when it comes to buying new.

[TheDeuce]

JAMSXR said:

Thanks - this is helpful. I think my mistake was looking at Auto Trader, I guess their prices are inflated due to lead times. I was looking on both the Hyundai and Kia sites but didn’t venture over to Audi.

I think my disappointment is down to the fact I’m used to buying nearly new and getting a good deal. The supply chain constraints combined with the EV market being so new, and you’re really not going to get much of a deal in the used market.

I would hope in the next 12-18 months the used market becomes a little more saturated and there are deals to be had.

According to the internet, it will cost more to produce electric cars over ICE for at least the next 5-years, so there won’t be any seismic shifts in the forceable future when it comes to buying new.

EV costs a lot less to run/service/maintain, so it's best to avoid direct comparisons with ICE and instead do the sums for both options.

Direct comparisons between the EV's mentioned here and your X1 are difficult too really. You said you would 'need' the dual motor EV but isn't that going to be vastly more powerful than the X1 and therefore worthy of a very different price-tag?

I'd also seriously consider lease for an EV right now. Every now and again there are some amazing deals to be had, just got to keep an eye out. My 80k EV costs me £500 a month which is way less than depreciation if I had bought it..