I'm a dinosaur - educate/change my mind

[TheDeuce]

Terminator X said:

TheDeuce said:

Terminator X said:

Cover your eyes and ears then as come 01 Apr we will all be facing much higher bills.

You don't have to buy EV either just by ICE until 2030 then switch to older cars after that. Imho synthetic fuel will save ICE anyway and the various Govts will do a U Turn.

TX.

I see problems..

If you buy you last ICE in 2030, or realistically, even in the next couple of years, the person you sell it to after you're done with it will be thinking about the effect the incoming ban and changing attitudes will have on it's future value. I think as this snowballs there will become a devaluing and reluctance to 'get stuck with' an ICE. There will still be millions of them in the UK and a drop in value, change in attitude doesn't need to put off any passionate petrol head of course.

Yes to higher electricity bills. Yes to higher fuel bills too! That's all so fked up at present that we might as well just put that side of the debate away..

As for synthetic fuel - it only solves half of ICE problems in terms of pollution and overall impact. EV goes further. I can't see the governments doing a u-turn this time, I don't see there is any pressure on them to do so at all, the car industry is getting on with EV very well already and the sales are smashing the most optimistic predictions. The reality is, that most western government has revised the deadlines they set by bringing the forwards - the opposite of a U-turn. Our government bought the date for banning all ICE sales and production forward by a full five years.

I will bet you £10 they roll back on the ban before it comes in to force.

TX.

No.

£100

[TheDeuce]

Evanivitch said:

TheDeuce said:

Volvolover said:

Riiiight. So popping outside in your pjs before bed when it’s 0 degrees in the winter sounds really convenient

I’ll pass on that method .

I’m sure you could make up a more appealing scenario

In what world would a person wait until it's time to put their pyjamas on and then go out to plug their car in!?

You just plug in when you return home from your previous journey, if the car needs it. You don't return home, go in, then come back out hours later and plug it in

I don't think VolvoLover is aware of charge timing.

I tell my car I want it to charge during the cheap overnight period. If I want to to charge immediately I press 3 buttons to override that default preference.

Some people use a smart charger and an app. I use a dumb charger and a car without internet connectivity. A charge costs by £0.55 instead of £1.75.

I do currently have an untethered cable I plug in both ends each time. But that's because I have a Type 1 car currently and the next one will inevitably be a Type 2.

I figured he might not be fully aware of how EV charging actually works. But sometimes it's more entertaining to play along

[Volvolover]

Evanivitch said:

I don't think VolvoLover is aware of charge timing.

I tell my car I want it to charge during the cheap overnight period. If I want to to charge immediately I press 3 buttons to override that default preference.

Some people use a smart charger and an app. I use a dumb charger and a car without internet connectivity. A charge costs by £0.55 instead of £1.75.

I do currently have an untethered cable I plug in both ends each time. But that's because I have a Type 1 car currently and the next one will inevitably be a Type 2.

I am aware of all of it, i was merely critiquing the scenario presented to me by the poster i quoted........why the fk he'd want to pop out in his pajamas every night at bed time is beyond me and way more of a pain in the ass than my one visit a fortnight to a pump (to me)

As i said it will be different for different people. The usual BEVtards are doing their usual thing and forcing it down our throats that its perfect for everybody and anyone who says different is wrong because they cant see further than the end of their nose.

For my lifestyle currently a BEV car as my primary would be a royal pain in the ass. That's a fact, and until the charging infrastructure is way better it will remain so.

Im almost certainly buying one soon as our second car though as that will work perfectly

[Volvolover]

TheDeuce said:

I figured he might not be fully aware of how EV charging actually works. But sometimes it's more entertaining to play along

I was quoting SWOLL and playing along also

Do actually read the whole thread before trying to look smart

[Europa Jon]

Delboy: we can discuss your predicament to eternity.The point is, if you're seriously interested in getting an EV next, get your bum in the ones you'd shortlist for a test drive. It's like sex: if you don't enjoy it, you're in the minority, but no harm done. On the other hand...

[TheDeuce]

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

I figured he might not be fully aware of how EV charging actually works. But sometimes it's more entertaining to play along

I was quoting SWOLL and playing along also

Do actually read the whole thread before trying to look smart

I read the entire exchange - I picked up on what you said/played along as you did, and you ignored pretty much everything else SWOLL said other than the bits you thought you could take a swipe at.

You've gone every which way with this little debate over charging being less time consuming than re-fuelling, other than simply listening to the several people on this thread that actually drive an EV and are reporting that it does save them time.

[off_again]

TheDeuce said:

I recall when I first heard of EV charging times years ago, I scoffed because I compared it directly to how long it takes to get fuel. Which was illogical but until a person really considers owning an EV and takes a proper look at how many miles they do and journey lengths, it's easy to lazily assume it's the same deal an ICE but instead of refilling quickly you have to wait around for hours.

Yeah, this gets thrown around a lot. I mentioned it before on a thread, but it took me a good 3+ months to get my head around things. You dont charge to 100% each and every time. While you might just stop and grab a full tank of fuel, you dont need or want to do that with an EV. Just charge up for what you need and a little contingency. Of course, I was freaking out about the whole "what if..." scenarios, but in reality those almost never happened anyway. It feels like a little loss of the whole freedom that a car brings, but it isnt really. Its all perception.

Charge what you need, dont charge if you dont need to and when you need 100% for the range, make sure you do it in advance. Jobs a good 'un. And for those rare times that you need to charge up fast, yeah, use a fast charger. Our i3 has a capped max charge rate, but its never been an issue in reality - we just dont use the car like that. But with newer (and more expensive) cars hit the market, we are seeing some impressive charge rates that do make a big difference - but again, you arent charging to full. Stop for a 15 minute break at a service station for a quick bathroom run and to grab a drink? That is usually enough to provide the extra range you needed. Its different, but its certainly not a major hassle.

But, again - its all about the use case. If this works for you, great. If it doesnt, thats OK too. If I have to drive the i3 to San Francisco and back in a day, thats going to be a little challenging. Thankfully I can take the motorcycle or the Macan. Could that trip work with a longer range EV? Yep, but I have co-workers who have done that and had to stop for charges for 45 mins - due to lack of planning.... so yeah, its not perfect and wont work for everyone.

[TheDeuce]

Europa Jon said:

Delboy: we can discuss your predicament to eternity.The point is, if you're seriously interested in getting an EV next, get your bum in the ones you'd shortlist for a test drive. It's like sex: if you don't enjoy it, you're in the minority, but no harm done. On the other hand...

I quite agree. Get an EV you would actually potentially consider buying for a test drive. Ideally make sure it's for at least few hours. A short test drive in something quite unfamiliar might give you a falsely negative impression.

[Volvolover]

TheDeuce said:

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

I figured he might not be fully aware of how EV charging actually works. But sometimes it's more entertaining to play along

I was quoting SWOLL and playing along also

Do actually read the whole thread before trying to look smart

I read the entire exchange - I picked up on what you said/played along as you did, and you ignored pretty much everything else SWOLL said other than the bits you thought you could take a swipe at.

You've gone every which way with this little debate over charging being less time consuming than re-fuelling, other than simply listening to the several people on this thread that actually drive an EV and are reporting that it does save them time.

It may well save them time, it would save my wife time.
Won’t save me any

[TheDeuce]

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

I figured he might not be fully aware of how EV charging actually works. But sometimes it's more entertaining to play along

I was quoting SWOLL and playing along also

Do actually read the whole thread before trying to look smart

I read the entire exchange - I picked up on what you said/played along as you did, and you ignored pretty much everything else SWOLL said other than the bits you thought you could take a swipe at.

You've gone every which way with this little debate over charging being less time consuming than re-fuelling, other than simply listening to the several people on this thread that actually drive an EV and are reporting that it does save them time.

It may well save them time, it would save my wife time.
Won’t save me any

You're one person and not everyone has the same usage habits etc.

The fact it won't work for you doesn't mean there is any value in trying to demonstrate that those it does work for are wrong or that for the vast majority, it won't work just fine.

[NMNeil]

I'm hoping the EV's will fix a lot of the problems that are plaguing once respected car brands.
Look at Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac and many others, and their reliability, or rather lack of, is letting them down. But the vast majority of the reliability issues are with the engine and transmission.
On average an ICE engine has over 200 individual parts, an EV motor has about 20, and only a few of those actually move. And as for transmission problems, EV's don't have a transmission as such.
My point is, an ICE car engine wears at a fairly high rate, and with this wear the emissions rise making the MOT test a nerve racking time, and if it fails on emissions there's a good chance it will be consigned to the junkyard because it's uneconomic to repair, even thought the rest of the car is perfectly good and has plenty of life left.
I know someone will say "Battery life" and that's true, but if only one item, albeit, an expensive item, might need replacing every 150,000 miles, it's still far better than the constant engine and transmission maintenance an ICE engine requires.
Just some thoughts that EV's may have more advantages that you might think.

[Volvolover]

TheDeuce said:

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

I figured he might not be fully aware of how EV charging actually works. But sometimes it's more entertaining to play along

I was quoting SWOLL and playing along also

Do actually read the whole thread before trying to look smart

I read the entire exchange - I picked up on what you said/played along as you did, and you ignored pretty much everything else SWOLL said other than the bits you thought you could take a swipe at.

You've gone every which way with this little debate over charging being less time consuming than re-fuelling, other than simply listening to the several people on this thread that actually drive an EV and are reporting that it does save them time.

It may well save them time, it would save my wife time.
Won’t save me any

You're one person and not everyone has the same usage habits etc.

The fact it won't work for you doesn't mean there is any value in trying to demonstrate that those it does work for are wrong or that for the vast majority, it won't work just fine.

I am by no means an unusual case study, particulary now more of us WFH

[JonnyVTEC]

Volvolover said:

I am aware of all of it, i was merely critiquing the scenario presented to me by the poster i quoted........why the fk he'd want to pop out in his pajamas every night at bed time is beyond me and way more of a pain in the ass than my one visit a fortnight to a pump (to me)

As i said it will be different for different people. The usual BEVtards are doing their usual thing and forcing it down our throats that its perfect for everybody and anyone who says different is wrong because they cant see further than the end of their nose.

For my lifestyle currently a BEV car as my primary would be a royal pain in the ass. That's a fact, and until the charging infrastructure is way better it will remain so.

The usual BEV tards have had both, you haven’t. Yet you are the one discrediting the other views?

Bizarre.

[SWoll]

Volvolover said:

Evanivitch said:

I don't think VolvoLover is aware of charge timing.

I tell my car I want it to charge during the cheap overnight period. If I want to to charge immediately I press 3 buttons to override that default preference.

Some people use a smart charger and an app. I use a dumb charger and a car without internet connectivity. A charge costs by £0.55 instead of £1.75.

I do currently have an untethered cable I plug in both ends each time. But that's because I have a Type 1 car currently and the next one will inevitably be a Type 2.

I am aware of all of it, i was merely critiquing the scenario presented to me by the poster i quoted........why the fk he'd want to pop out in his pajamas every night at bed time is beyond me and way more of a pain in the ass than my one visit a fortnight to a pump (to me)

As i said it will be different for different people. The usual BEVtards are doing their usual thing and forcing it down our throats that its perfect for everybody and anyone who says different is wrong because they cant see further than the end of their nose.

For my lifestyle currently a BEV car as my primary would be a royal pain in the ass. That's a fact, and until the charging infrastructure is way better it will remain so.

Im almost certainly buying one soon as our second car though as that will work perfectly

Because I'm locking the door anyway, the car is setup to charge between midnight and 7am when power is cheapest, it takes < 30 seconds and if I happen to need the car between 5:30PM and 11:30PM, which with teenagers has a habit of happening, I don't have to unplug it and plug it in again when I get back. Not really understanding why this is such a challenging scenario to grasp TBH, or why you seem to think it is such a chore.

No-one has suggested they are perfect for everyone BTW, just a lot more people than many seem to appreciate. If you can charge at home and do < 100 miles per day then assuming you can afford one they make brilliant daily IME.

BEVtard?

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 3rd March 21:34

[Discombobulate]

EV as daily work horse. V refined. Fast. Tax efficient. Minimal maintenance / servicing. No VED. 80mpg equivalent. Never needed to charge on a public charger in a year and 10k.
But I have my own charger and an ICE or two to play with at the weekend / do very long journeys.

[plfrench]

All I'd question Delboy, is why have one more ICE as a daily? I'd go EV next if I were you with your described usage - with such low daily use, the only reason not to assuming you can afford a new car is if you can't charge at home off road.

We got my wife an e-golf as a bit of an experiment as I was intrigued and her usage fitted it perfectly (about 40 miles per day school run).

For a daily drive, electric is a much more elegant solution - no gearchanges to interrupt power, instant pick up - the only limiting factor being the lump in the driving seat's reactions to a situation.

I found the regenerative braking aspect great fun to learn, it adds an extra dimension to driving - being able to meter out exactly how much acceleration / deceleration you require at any given moment brings a new, but admittedly different challenge compared to ICE.

I still have my trusty old 5.0 V8 Chimaera for the weekends, but am ditching my daily (E350d Estate) as soon as possible. The only thing stopping this is the lead time on getting a new car - I ordered a Q4 Etron 50 in Jan, but it's not due to turn up till Oct (if I'm lucky)... my E-Class will be terminated when the Q4 arrives, even though it's not due to go back to Oct 2024 - that's how much I prefer electric

[Volvolover]

JonnyVTEC said:

The usual BEV tards have had both, you haven’t. Yet you are the one discrediting the other views?

Bizarre.

Havent i? And yet you and they seem to know everybodys lifestyle

Immense arrogance

[SWoll]

Volvolover said:

JonnyVTEC said:

The usual BEV tards have had both, you haven’t. Yet you are the one discrediting the other views?

Bizarre.

Havent i? And yet you and they seem to know everybodys lifestyle

Immense arrogance

What are you talking about? Please find me a quote where anyone has suggested EV is a perfect fit for everyone?

We get an angry/irrational poster like you every few weeks, it's all very odd but rather amusing so please do continue shouting at clouds.

[Evanivitch]

Volvolover said:

... way more of a pain in the ass than my one visit a fortnight to a pump (to me)
...
For my lifestyle currently a BEV car as my primary would be a royal pain in the ass. That's a fact, and until the charging infrastructure is way better it will remain so.

I'm intrigued how someone doing such low mileage could be incredibly inconvenienced by a BEV.

[TheDeuce]

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

I figured he might not be fully aware of how EV charging actually works. But sometimes it's more entertaining to play along

I was quoting SWOLL and playing along also

Do actually read the whole thread before trying to look smart

I read the entire exchange - I picked up on what you said/played along as you did, and you ignored pretty much everything else SWOLL said other than the bits you thought you could take a swipe at.

You've gone every which way with this little debate over charging being less time consuming than re-fuelling, other than simply listening to the several people on this thread that actually drive an EV and are reporting that it does save them time.

It may well save them time, it would save my wife time.
Won’t save me any

You're one person and not everyone has the same usage habits etc.

The fact it won't work for you doesn't mean there is any value in trying to demonstrate that those it does work for are wrong or that for the vast majority, it won't work just fine.

I am by no means an unusual case study, particulary now more of us WFH

Whatever your situation.. stats show that for the majority current EV range is sufficient for the vast majority of trips they make, so subsequently charging takes no real time because virtually all of it happens at home and takes seconds to instigate.

That's the point that you were trying to pick holes in.