Will you go back to ICE?

[Michael_B]

off_again said:

Ah, but an EV needs to be able to drive 600 miles without stopping or charging..... grrrrr....

You forgot about towing a boat/caravan as well

Once I learned that a TM3LR could, in an emergency, easily do the 300km/186 mile round trip to my weekend place in France in all weathers (and even towing a trailer!) without needing to charge, that was good enough for me. The fact that I *can* charge there (and at 25% less cost than at home in Switzerland), is merely a bonus.

There is also a 12 bay Supercharger within a 10 minute drive of the house at the Me(n)tal Chicken A39 service area, and I also bought a 2.3m trailer for taking stuff to the tip and transporting locally-sourced furniture bargains.

So 16 months and 35'000kms later, the passage from ICE to EV has been smooth, cheap and hassle-free.

off_again said:

And that proves what? Who has the biggest bladder? Thats not me..... I am old.

Last summer's trip from Geneva to Tuscany involved three stops, spaced 2-2.5hrs apart (Aosta, Milan, Modena), each time 15-20 minutes (coffee, shopping, snack, loo) by which time another 250km of range had been added. Same story on the return journey. In a ICE vehicle I might have done just two stops each way, but three was probably a better choice.

(Ixiewave at FastDruid )

[TheDeuce]

Fastdruid said:

Regularly but again seeing as everyone keeps ignoring this point and going on about bladder capacity etc I'M NOT DOING IT IN ONE GO.

I'm doing half, taking a long break somewhere where THERE ARE NO CHARGERS, then heading home. I don't stop for a break for food/drink/toilet because I've done all those at either end of the trip and it's not that big a trip. Equally I've done similar types of journey where I've stopped numerous times, but none of them at places with chargers. If I had to stop to charge as well it would be *extra* stops, not ones I could do "at the same time".

I'm in full agreement that a range of 300 miles "without a break" is ridiculous but as that is the only use case that the EV supporters keep going on about I'm pointing out that it's not the only concern over range and giving my actual use case for a range >300Miles (and even 300Miles would be pushing it).

My take is that for this specific example of a journey, the answer is to stop for a 15 minute charge break in addition to the stop you have to make, where there are no chargers.

Accept that on this specific journey the EV is going to more hassle than an ICE in that regard - not a big deal given that for more typical use the EV makes life as easy as possible by effortlessly and cheaply refilling it's 'tank' whilst the owner sleeps.

[Fastdruid]

SWoll said:

Toaster Pilot said:

Fastdruid said:

They recharge car allowance holders at HMRC recommended rates.

From what I gather it's quite common. For example: https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/mileag...

Wow, talk about the worst of both worlds. Well, salary sacrifice drivers that actually need to drive for business hold that title - but this isn’t far away.

But SS users are usually getting a very good deal on the car itself so would have to be doing big company miles in a pretty inefficient EV and public charging quite a bit to be down on the deal?

CA users getting taxed in full on the payment, paying full price for the vehicle and then also getting underpaid for every mile are getting shafted from all angles.

Yeah, lots of people get underpaid per mile. The HMRC rates are stingy as hell as they're based off the *claimed* mpg which we all know is bks. It's hard to hit them and if you don't then you're basically paying the company to do business miles!

Same goes for the EV rates and that's only going to get worse as electricity prices go up. It's marginal *now* let alone if you have to charge out and about where you're not going to get anywhere near as good a rate as at home (free charging excepted of course) and I genuinely don't know how HMRC "should" be doing it because its a minefield!

Personally I take the amount after tax to be what I spend on a car and I'm not getting underpaid for each mile as I was careful with my car selection, picking one that easily does better than the mpg that HMRC base their rates off (and of course I can claim the tax back on the difference). I'm currently well up on the deal as not only does the car allowance pay *all* car related costs the business mileage subs personal mileage.

[delta0]

Fastdruid said:

Regularly but again seeing as everyone keeps ignoring this point and going on about bladder capacity etc I'M NOT DOING IT IN ONE GO.

I'm doing half, taking a long break somewhere where THERE ARE NO CHARGERS, then heading home. I don't stop for a break for food/drink/toilet because I've done all those at either end of the trip and it's not that big a trip. Equally I've done similar types of journey where I've stopped numerous times, but none of them at places with chargers. If I had to stop to charge as well it would be *extra* stops, not ones I could do "at the same time".

I'm in full agreement that a range of 300 miles "without a break" is ridiculous but as that is the only use case that the EV supporters keep going on about I'm pointing out that it's not the only concern over range and giving my actual use case for a range >300Miles (and even 300Miles would be pushing it).

No chargers? Here is a map of the chargers in the UK

[ZesPak]

On the other hand, was having a quick look for our ski trip in a couple of weeks. Starting from the border of NL/BE, 3 stops along the way to do 900km.
One hour of charging for 10h of driving.

I know for a fact we'll be stopping more, just have to plan our stops to charging spots. It's really no big deal and doesn't add any time to our journey.

[CheesecakeRunner]

av185 said:

Also don't forget Cheesecakeforbrains whatever he's called also posted he considered a GT3 RS to be sterile and boring.

As if he has ever driven one to know.

Quite telling he has no cars never mind any superbikes he keeps banging on about in his garage. As previously posted he probably drives a diesel Corsa lol.

No need to be an ahole. I never list out possessions in web forums things like ‘garages’ but seeing as though it’ll make you happy…

Here’s my Model 3…



Here’s the bike, I’ll let you have a guess where





Don’t have any photos of the day at Palmersport with the Porsche.

[Fastdruid]

delta0 said:

Fastdruid said:

No chargers? Here is a map of the chargers in the UK

No chargers.

[delta0]

Fastdruid said:

No chargers.

Can’t tell if serious…

Oh and yes there is

Edited by delta0 on Wednesday 9th March 10:45

[DrJFoster]

Go back? I like to have the choice of both

There's a lot of aggressive behaviour on this thread which is what seems to happen on every EV related thread with diametrically opposed extreme views and reading it I can't related to either side, but I do understand some of the underlying points.

- are there lots of chargers? Sure, but are they all equal like petrol stations where you can fill on at any of them and quickly? No, Do you need a 100 apps installed to make use of all of them, yes. Posting a picture from zap map doesn't further the cause because anyone with an EV (or common sense) knows it's not as simple and if it was, Tesla wouldn't have a USP with the supercharging network.

- People fixated on one way trips 300 mile trips. I rarely ever do that, but I do sometimes do 250+ miles in a day broken up into 4 or 5 smaller chunks before arriving back home. I'm yet to get close to doing that without charging at some point, and at no time was my bladder the cause of the stop because I'd go at the various destinations if I needed to. If I have a working lunch it's rare it's anywhere with a charger and so I also don't stop for food.

- Have I ever had to drive out of my way for a charge? Almost by definition, every time. Sometimes that is just a quick such as a service station I wouldn't otherwise stop at, but other times it's a 15 min round trip detour.

- Are ICE cars the only option to have fun? No, not really, it's different fun, but all the EVs I've driven in the last 2 years have been fairly souless experiences, I'm sure with time and the BMW i4 seems to be the nearest that does not have a 6 digit price to be that. Even that is no E46 M3, but then the latest M4 doesn't have the same character as the E46 M3 I enjoyed back in the day, and I am a long way from pushing the boundaries of a car.

- I will hang on to the ICE though for a long time, there are situations where it can not currently be beaten. Towing heavy stuff anything more than 100 miles, being instantly available when I get a call at 3AM to go into work and the EV isn't charged sufficiently. maybe my life and job makes me unusual but I can envisiage many, albeit infrequent situations when you just need to get somewhere at short notice. As much as we can cope with charging and most days its perfectly manageable, it's not currently perfect

- but otherwise, my EV will do 90% of my miles.

- I am lucky in that I can afford to do both. Not everyone is in that position.

If anybody wants me to prescribe a chill pill then my suggestion would be go for a 45 min walk and lay off the keyboard for a day and certainly ease back on the double shot expressos.

[TheDeuce]

delta0 said:

Fastdruid said:

No chargers.

Can’t tell if serious…

Oh and yes there is

Edited by delta0 on Wednesday 9th March 10:45

He can't be serious. There's 17 chargers at that geniepoint station! And another two chargemaster stations within a short walk. WTF

It's docklands, of course there are chargers!!!

[TheRainMaker]

Wow, look at all the red broken chargers, that must be nearly 5O%

[delta0]

TheRainMaker said:

Wow, look at all the red broken chargers, that must be nearly 5O%

It means issue reported and it definitely doesn’t mean all of the chargers in that location have an issue.

[anonymous-user]

One question for people in the uk doing "long" distance drives:

How much time are you allowing for traffic?


I mean, on any significant journey, i find i'm allowing at least an extra hour, and probably two hours if it's anywhere near rush hour, in order to actually arrive at somewhere near the time i need too? For example, a drove to Heathrow a while back, a trip on an empty M1 that can be done easily in well under 45 min, but i allowed 2.5 hours for that trip because if the M1/M25 is broken, then that's how long it actually takes?

In this circumstance, allowing an extra 15 to 30 min for a quick charge seems to be effectively irrelevant surely?

The last time i did a proper long trip (midlands to lands end) i got stuck on the A30 for 4 hours...........

[Cant Find a Charger when I need one]

Max_Torque said:

One question for people in the uk doing "long" distance drives:

How much time are you allowing for traffic?


I mean, on any significant journey, i find i'm allowing at least an extra hour, and probably two hours if it's anywhere near rush hour, in order to actually arrive at somewhere near the time i need too? For example, a drove to Heathrow a while back, a trip on an empty M1 that can be done easily in well under 45 min, but i allowed 2.5 hours for that trip because if the M1/M25 is broken, then that's how long it actually takes?

In this circumstance, allowing an extra 15 to 30 min for a quick charge seems to be effectively irrelevant surely?

The last time i did a proper long trip (midlands to lands end) i got stuck on the A30 for 4 hours...........

Its even worse when traffic is heavy and you cant detour because it takes you off your charging plan....

[ZesPak]

Cant Find a Charger when I need one said:

Its even worse when traffic is heavy and you cant detour because it takes you off your charging plan....

Well, if traffic is really that heavy you won't be charging nearly as much anyway .

[anonymous-user]

Cant Find a Charger when I need one said:

Max_Torque said:

One question for people in the uk doing "long" distance drives:

How much time are you allowing for traffic?


I mean, on any significant journey, i find i'm allowing at least an extra hour, and probably two hours if it's anywhere near rush hour, in order to actually arrive at somewhere near the time i need too? For example, a drove to Heathrow a while back, a trip on an empty M1 that can be done easily in well under 45 min, but i allowed 2.5 hours for that trip because if the M1/M25 is broken, then that's how long it actually takes?

In this circumstance, allowing an extra 15 to 30 min for a quick charge seems to be effectively irrelevant surely?

The last time i did a proper long trip (midlands to lands end) i got stuck on the A30 for 4 hours...........

Its even worse when traffic is heavy and you cant detour because it takes you off your charging plan....

IME there is no point in following any "detour" because now that sat nav is a std item, all it means is everyone who was stuck on the motorway leaves at the first exit and is now stuck there instead!

In fact, ime, often the best option is to go completely the opposite direction for a bit to get away from everyone else then try to work back to your original route......

(and as mentioned in an EV, if you hit traffic your range increases because your average speed falls.....)

[Cant Find a Charger when I need one]

Max_Torque said:

IME there is no point in following any "detour" because now that sat nav is a std item, all it means is everyone who was stuck on the motorway leaves at the first exit and is now stuck there instead!

In fact, ime, often the best option is to go completely the opposite direction for a bit to get away from everyone else then try to work back to your original route......

(and as mentioned in an EV, if you hit traffic your range increases because your average speed falls.....)

Its not always about range though is it.....otherwise we'd all sit happily in traffic for hours grinning at the range/fuel guage

Sometimes, just sometimes, say if you're in the working day or each end of it, then time is the critical factor and sitting in traffic or not being able to detour is inconvenient.

Roll on prevalent and fast destination charging and mid journey charging for all not just 'most'

[limpsfield]

Cant Find a Charger when I need one said:

Its not always about range though is it.....otherwise we'd all sit happily in traffic for hours grinning at the range/fuel guage

Sometimes, just sometimes, say if you're in the working day or each end of it, then time is the critical factor and sitting in traffic or not being able to detour is inconvenient.

Roll on prevalent and fast destination charging and mid journey charging for all not just 'most'

This all exceptional circumstances stuff though. Once a month I have to do a 500 mile round trip, so for me a Tesla was the obvious option. I'll happily do detours but have had to perhaps once every 8 months. I would have though for someone commuting daily they won't be planning on getting to work or returning home on fumes, or whatever the EV equivalent is, so I think for most a detour isn't going to be an issue.

[TheDeuce]

Cant Find a Charger when I need one said:

Max_Torque said:

IME there is no point in following any "detour" because now that sat nav is a std item, all it means is everyone who was stuck on the motorway leaves at the first exit and is now stuck there instead!

In fact, ime, often the best option is to go completely the opposite direction for a bit to get away from everyone else then try to work back to your original route......

(and as mentioned in an EV, if you hit traffic your range increases because your average speed falls.....)

Its not always about range though is it.....otherwise we'd all sit happily in traffic for hours grinning at the range/fuel guage

Sometimes, just sometimes, say if you're in the working day or each end of it, then time is the critical factor and sitting in traffic or not being able to detour is inconvenient.

Roll on prevalent and fast destination charging and mid journey charging for all not just 'most'

I sometimes wonder if the world governments are actually all that focussed on making sure electric works for everyone. I'm not convinced they want 'everyone' using personal transport for that much longer...

Which is probably a major reason some people are anti EV regardless of logic or even giving it any serious thought - they don't like where the idea of personal transport and who should have it might be heading.

I can imagine if I was on a low income and had no way to charge at home, even though I probably could find a way to get an EV in ten years time, no matter how good the public charging network was, I'd kind of be tempted to just save some money and used public transport instead, along with occasional taxi's.

[ZesPak]

TheDeuce said:

I sometimes wonder if the world governments are actually all that focussed on making sure electric works for everyone. I'm not convinced they want 'everyone' using personal transport for that much longer...

There's two sides to that coin.
In most of our countries, you're basically handicapped if you don't have a car. Alternatives are often impractical and insufficient.
Removing the need for people to have a car alleviates a big burden on lower income families.

The issue of course you're describing is that they are possibly making the car a bigger burden on more people, without providing sufficient alternatives.

In any case, that topic is completely separate from the EV topic. New cars are expensive. EV's are as good as at price parity, even without government incentives.