Public Charging Points Not Keeping Up With EVs
Discussion
Perhaps no surprises, but I thought this story in the Times was interesting yesterday. It's behind a paywall
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-falling...
"While sales of electric cars are booming, the provision of re-charging infrastructure is not. It found that a year ago there was one public charging point for every 16 plug-in cars on the road. That figure is now one for every 32. There are also large regional disparities. The figure is one charger for every ten plug-in cars in London. In the northwest and southwest, the ratios are more than 60 electrified cars for every public chargepoint."
I've certainly noticed Tesla chargers getting much busier over the past year.
Also this which again I don't think is a surprise, but interesting to see some numbers on it
"The report also stated that fiscal incentives are behind the boom in zero-emission electric company cars — and why there are so many Teslas around. Yet only a third of electric car acquisitions are made by private buyers."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-falling...
"While sales of electric cars are booming, the provision of re-charging infrastructure is not. It found that a year ago there was one public charging point for every 16 plug-in cars on the road. That figure is now one for every 32. There are also large regional disparities. The figure is one charger for every ten plug-in cars in London. In the northwest and southwest, the ratios are more than 60 electrified cars for every public chargepoint."
I've certainly noticed Tesla chargers getting much busier over the past year.
Also this which again I don't think is a surprise, but interesting to see some numbers on it
"The report also stated that fiscal incentives are behind the boom in zero-emission electric company cars — and why there are so many Teslas around. Yet only a third of electric car acquisitions are made by private buyers."
limpsfield said:
Perhaps no surprises, but I thought this story in the Times was interesting yesterday. It's behind a paywall
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-falling...
"While sales of electric cars are booming, the provision of re-charging infrastructure is not. It found that a year ago there was one public charging point for every 16 plug-in cars on the road. That figure is now one for every 32. There are also large regional disparities. The figure is one charger for every ten plug-in cars in London. In the northwest and southwest, the ratios are more than 60 electrified cars for every public chargepoint."
I've certainly noticed Tesla chargers getting much busier over the past year.
Also this which again I don't think is a surprise, but interesting to see some numbers on it
"The report also stated that fiscal incentives are behind the boom in zero-emission electric company cars — and why there are so many Teslas around. Yet only a third of electric car acquisitions are made by private buyers."
It's failing to recognose two key pointshttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-falling...
"While sales of electric cars are booming, the provision of re-charging infrastructure is not. It found that a year ago there was one public charging point for every 16 plug-in cars on the road. That figure is now one for every 32. There are also large regional disparities. The figure is one charger for every ten plug-in cars in London. In the northwest and southwest, the ratios are more than 60 electrified cars for every public chargepoint."
I've certainly noticed Tesla chargers getting much busier over the past year.
Also this which again I don't think is a surprise, but interesting to see some numbers on it
"The report also stated that fiscal incentives are behind the boom in zero-emission electric company cars — and why there are so many Teslas around. Yet only a third of electric car acquisitions are made by private buyers."
1 - number of home charge points which is where most charging is done.
2 - the charger network isn't responding to demand, its responding to gaps in coverage. By that I mean there was once the odd rapid but only at motorway services, then more but distantly spaced, they're now even more frequent and closer together. We are starting to reach the point where public chargers are hitting high utilisation but most of the rapids I see have spare capacity with nobody waiting.
There's definitely an effect of good sites with multiples getting better usage because people in the know will plan long journeys around them - think Banbury, MK Coachway, Rugby services, some of the MFG sites.
There's also been a pattern of older installs getting thrown in anywhere that would have them, like the solitary old Polar units in hotel and pub car parks. Likewise where there's multiple chargers putting them in places where there's good grid connections rather than where would be most desirable for end users.
The ecotricity monopoly (and neglect) at the motorway services really didn't help and for many people it's what they aim for first because they don't know any better. Hopefully between the government funding for proper high power connections to them, agreements falling into place with the services operators, and Gridserve investment there'll be more and more motorway services "hubs" with a dozen or more chargers soon.
There's also been a pattern of older installs getting thrown in anywhere that would have them, like the solitary old Polar units in hotel and pub car parks. Likewise where there's multiple chargers putting them in places where there's good grid connections rather than where would be most desirable for end users.
The ecotricity monopoly (and neglect) at the motorway services really didn't help and for many people it's what they aim for first because they don't know any better. Hopefully between the government funding for proper high power connections to them, agreements falling into place with the services operators, and Gridserve investment there'll be more and more motorway services "hubs" with a dozen or more chargers soon.
I keep saying, they need to look at better and cheaper ways to have chargers fitted at homes that have no driveway or ones with looped supplies.
Invest there and the public infra won't be as badly needed.
Our infra is still very much lacking compared to demand though. Almost everywhere I go now the chargers are slow ones and full. Free charging needs to be stopped or hefty charges for those sitting idle on a charger to help with this.
Invest there and the public infra won't be as badly needed.
Our infra is still very much lacking compared to demand though. Almost everywhere I go now the chargers are slow ones and full. Free charging needs to be stopped or hefty charges for those sitting idle on a charger to help with this.
paradigital said:
Wonder what the ratio of pump to ICE car is. Sure EVs take longer to “fill”, but I don’t set off every journey needing to recharge, quite the opposite, I set off for most journeys with 80% SoC, which would be 100% SoC if I needed it to be.
Approx 32m cars, 8400 petrol station sites. Say average 6-8 pumps per site? Between 1:634 and 1:476.We work at a fair few 5* hotels out of town, the one I'm at today has a carpark that holds around 300 cars, they have six chargers all of which are in use as we speak. I say in use, but the reality is two chargers are taken up by two Teslas which have been here for over 48 hours and not moved and another space taken up by an electric minibus thing that is not even plugged in...
So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
TheRainMaker said:
We work at a fair few 5* hotels out of town, the one I'm at today has a carpark that holds around 300 cars, they have six chargers all of which are in use as we speak. I say in use, but the reality is two chargers are taken up by two Teslas which have been here for over 48 hours and not moved and another space taken up by an electric minibus thing that is not even plugged in...
So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
The test is how many are free and how many are paid for. Chershire Oaks had free charging points, you could never get on one. Cannock, same company, same type of operation, pay as you go chargers, hardly ever used. So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
People happily free load but ask them to pay 40p kwh and they can magically charge at home.
I remember when ecotricity were free, they were always busy, then they introduced fees and nobody touched them.
limpsfield said:
...
"While sales of electric cars are booming, the provision of re-charging infrastructure is not. It found that a year ago there was one public charging point for every 16 plug-in cars on the road. That figure is now one for every 32. There are also large regional disparities. The figure is one charger for every ten plug-in cars in London. In the northwest and southwest, the ratios are more than 60 electrified cars for every public chargepoint."
.....I
I can probably name about a dozen EV owners."While sales of electric cars are booming, the provision of re-charging infrastructure is not. It found that a year ago there was one public charging point for every 16 plug-in cars on the road. That figure is now one for every 32. There are also large regional disparities. The figure is one charger for every ten plug-in cars in London. In the northwest and southwest, the ratios are more than 60 electrified cars for every public chargepoint."
.....I
Of those, ten use a public charge point less than once a month, one maybe once a month, the other probably does a long trip about once o month or less and will use maybe 4 charge points in that trip.
So on average, those cars occupy a charger maybe 0.5% of the time?
There was a charger in a town I frequent, first two years, I never saw it used. Now I see it in use now and then at weekends.
So really, there's not that much demand.
It seems to me once there is more demand, more commercial charge points will appear.
Early days, and as with cars, we are transitioning from government meddling to a commercial system.
Journalism is not what it used to be.
TheRainMaker said:
We work at a fair few 5* hotels out of town, the one I'm at today has a carpark that holds around 300 cars, they have six chargers all of which are in use as we speak. I say in use, but the reality is two chargers are taken up by two Teslas which have been here for over 48 hours and not moved and another space taken up by an electric minibus thing that is not even plugged in...
So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
Seems like in that situation the solution is a fine or a fee for using those parking bays while not usefully charging.So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
I'm looking forward to when the chargers are within 'reach' of 2 or perhaps even 4 parking spaces, lessening the risk of the charger being uselessly blocked.
blueacid said:
TheRainMaker said:
We work at a fair few 5* hotels out of town, the one I'm at today has a carpark that holds around 300 cars, they have six chargers all of which are in use as we speak. I say in use, but the reality is two chargers are taken up by two Teslas which have been here for over 48 hours and not moved and another space taken up by an electric minibus thing that is not even plugged in...
So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
Seems like in that situation the solution is a fine or a fee for using those parking bays while not usefully charging.So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....
A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.
I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.
I'm looking forward to when the chargers are within 'reach' of 2 or perhaps even 4 parking spaces, lessening the risk of the charger being uselessly blocked.
A lot of chargers will be fine for 2 spaces but you would need long cables for 4 spaces and this is not practical or cost effective at the moment.
somouk said:
I keep saying, they need to look at better and cheaper ways to have chargers fitted at homes that have no driveway or ones with looped supplies.
What do you propose though? None of the solutions are cheap or easy for homes without chargers. However you look at it you need to run a big cable to a solid object that you can mount a charger on. You can't run cables above ground because they will look unsightly and digging it up is very expensive. The best solution is to provide charging at places people park at for longer periods, such as shopping centres and workplaces. This of course requires these places to have enough power for enough chargers and workplaces mostly are already using the lion's share of the total power they have available.
11kW, 22kW and higher power DC charging all require a lot of power so don't expect these locations to have 50 superfast chargers.
Frimley111R said:
What do you propose though? None of the solutions are cheap or easy for homes without chargers. However you look at it you need to run a big cable to a solid object that you can mount a charger on. You can't run cables above ground because they will look unsightly and digging it up is very expensive.
The best solution is to provide charging at places people park at for longer periods, such as shopping centres and workplaces. This of course requires these places to have enough power for enough chargers and workplaces mostly are already using the lion's share of the total power they have available.
11kW, 22kW and higher power DC charging all require a lot of power so don't expect these locations to have 50 superfast chargers.
Digging up the roads is 'very expensive' but then cars are very expensive too.The best solution is to provide charging at places people park at for longer periods, such as shopping centres and workplaces. This of course requires these places to have enough power for enough chargers and workplaces mostly are already using the lion's share of the total power they have available.
11kW, 22kW and higher power DC charging all require a lot of power so don't expect these locations to have 50 superfast chargers.
Transport is not a cheap game.
If you put in a charger and it serves a hundred cars every month that is a lot of ££££ people are not spending on petrol.
The big picture/grand scheme of things may include dissuading people from having so many cars.
We've got used to the idea that parking on the public road is not always a free resource, with residents' permits and all that.
So maybe people will get used to the idea that there are real costs in providing chargers and that the motorist will be paying.
The town I live in has 2 rapid charge areas with a handful of chargers in each. I have never seen all charges full and dont often see any cars charging there at all.
The place I work at has 2 free to use chargers but an ICE owner complained that it wasnt fair an EV owner can fill up for free when he still needs to buy petrol so now everyone has been banned from using the chargers at work.
The place I work at has 2 free to use chargers but an ICE owner complained that it wasnt fair an EV owner can fill up for free when he still needs to buy petrol so now everyone has been banned from using the chargers at work.
Supply and demand.
Once more 'long distance' drivers start using EV's, this will shape the market. At the moment, there just isn't the demand.
'Fuel' stations will just be a big car park, with 100w charges as standard, and then a premium 250w or above - like how only some pumps dispense v power. Rather than standard national pricing, the pricing will vary depending on where you are, demand, etc.
Around the car park will be coffee shops and take aways - minimum profits on the electric, but big profits on food and beverage.
By the way, anyone really think the government will follow through on banning new ICE sales in 2030? Not a chance.
Once more 'long distance' drivers start using EV's, this will shape the market. At the moment, there just isn't the demand.
'Fuel' stations will just be a big car park, with 100w charges as standard, and then a premium 250w or above - like how only some pumps dispense v power. Rather than standard national pricing, the pricing will vary depending on where you are, demand, etc.
Around the car park will be coffee shops and take aways - minimum profits on the electric, but big profits on food and beverage.
By the way, anyone really think the government will follow through on banning new ICE sales in 2030? Not a chance.
Heres Johnny said:
It's failing to recognose two key points
1 - number of home charge points which is where most charging is done.
2 - the charger network isn't responding to demand, its responding to gaps in coverage. By that I mean there was once the odd rapid but only at motorway services, then more but distantly spaced, they're now even more frequent and closer together. We are starting to reach the point where public chargers are hitting high utilisation but most of the rapids I see have spare capacity with nobody waiting.
There is a real problem with the millions of homes that can't have home charging because they don't have a driveway. Those people will get fleeced on public charging, and if you thought parking wars were bad wait until you see the charger wars.1 - number of home charge points which is where most charging is done.
2 - the charger network isn't responding to demand, its responding to gaps in coverage. By that I mean there was once the odd rapid but only at motorway services, then more but distantly spaced, they're now even more frequent and closer together. We are starting to reach the point where public chargers are hitting high utilisation but most of the rapids I see have spare capacity with nobody waiting.
The government probably won't do anything meaningful to help people charge at home.
aestetix1 said:
Heres Johnny said:
It's failing to recognose two key points
1 - number of home charge points which is where most charging is done.
2 - the charger network isn't responding to demand, its responding to gaps in coverage. By that I mean there was once the odd rapid but only at motorway services, then more but distantly spaced, they're now even more frequent and closer together. We are starting to reach the point where public chargers are hitting high utilisation but most of the rapids I see have spare capacity with nobody waiting.
There is a real problem with the millions of homes that can't have home charging because they don't have a driveway. Those people will get fleeced on public charging, and if you thought parking wars were bad wait until you see the charger wars.1 - number of home charge points which is where most charging is done.
2 - the charger network isn't responding to demand, its responding to gaps in coverage. By that I mean there was once the odd rapid but only at motorway services, then more but distantly spaced, they're now even more frequent and closer together. We are starting to reach the point where public chargers are hitting high utilisation but most of the rapids I see have spare capacity with nobody waiting.
The government probably won't do anything meaningful to help people charge at home.
Frimley111R said:
What do you propose though? None of the solutions are cheap or easy for homes without chargers. However you look at it you need to run a big cable to a solid object that you can mount a charger on. You can't run cables above ground because they will look unsightly and digging it up is very expensive.
Yeah, there is no cheap solution. The looped power supply one is a case of DNOs approving a pre-set level of technology. ie, if you have a load of X and a fuse of Y then you need a clamp that matches this spec to limit your charger to this value.
Instead of expecting paperwork for every single charger and having to approve anything and discuss everything that isn't a standard install.
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